PCI Express vs. AGP 8x

v-six · 07-11-2005, 12:13 PM

Hi all, I'll be doing a massive upgrade soon, and was wondering if I should upgrade from agp to pci express. Getting an athlon 64 bit 3000+ (Venice). I currently have a 256 mb radeon 9600. Would it be worth it to get a motherboard with pci express and get a new video card? I wouldn't want to spend more than 70 or 80 on the card, so I would probably just be getting an x300 unless someone can recommend a good budget card. (I do a bit of gaming, but not enough to need a high-end card... Mostly use the computer for general use and adobe/macromedia stuff) I don't know much about the advantages of pci express, so any input is appreciated.
Thanks for reading

Grandmaster_Z · 07-11-2005, 02:51 PM

If you don't really care about gaming, you don't really need to upgrade to PCI express. PCI Express bus just has more bandwidth.

**UncleMacro** · 07-11-2005, 06:00 PM

It's true that PCI-Express offers no current performance advantage over AGP 8X. In fact, AGP 8X is only a couple of percent faster in games than AGP 4X and in non-games it doesn't matter at all. But the biggest advantage of PCI-Express is that it's the standard of the future. If I was making a "massive upgrade" I'd want to get something which is in the direction computers are going rather than where they've been. You may regret the lack of PCI-Express slots someday and not just because of the future lack of choice in video cards.

Plus there are some excellent PCI-Express deals only slightly out of your price range like this ASUS PCX 5900 for $99. It's actually a high-end card of the previous generation which is very fast for the money. It's two or three times as fast as your Radeon 9600. Otherwise you can get an X600 Pro for about $82 which is 50% faster than what you currently have (assuming you have a 9600 non-pro).

v-six · 07-11-2005, 06:22 PM

Thanks for the advice...
Macro, those cards are very tempting

My card isn't pro, this is the link to it.. (no, i didn't pay that much!)
http://www.rosewill.com/product/prod...x?productId=17
How would something like this stand up to the 9600? If it's slower, perhaps I'll try out one of your suggestions.
much obliged

**UncleMacro** · 07-11-2005, 06:56 PM

The X300 is the PCI-Express version of the 9600. The X600 Pro is the PCI-Express version of the 9600 Pro. So that X300 is the same speed as what you currently have. The only real difference is that it has 128MB and you currently have 256MB which doesn't actually have any significant impact on performance. 128MB is fine for a video card of that speed.

The PCX 5900 is a whole other league of video card. It's big - It's hot - It's way faster than the other video cards in that price range. Now and then you come across one of these really great deals where they're dumping their old hardware to make room for the new. On the AGP side of things it's the Radeon 9800 Pros which you can get for $130. That PCX5900 is actually a better deal.

v-six · 07-11-2005, 07:35 PM

Thanks again for the help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleMacro

It's big - It's hot

Did you mean hot as in operating temperature, or as in a general statement about the card?

**UncleMacro** · 07-11-2005, 07:58 PM

Judging from the heatsinks... both.

Anything which is reasonably quick these days tends to get pretty hot.

If you're building a new machine then you should make sure you have a decent power supply anyway. Most of the new motherboards have moved to the 24 pin ATX power connector and the new power supplies have multiple 12 volt rails so they can handle the larger load on the 12 volt rail. Older power supplies have 20 pin connectors and don't provide as much juice on the 12 volt rail so when you're building a new machine you often need a power supply upgrade too.

v-six · 07-11-2005, 08:06 PM

I've only got one 12 volt rail, but its 35 amps, so it should handle lots. The atx power connector is only 20 pins though... there is another power connector with 4 pins, is this an adapter for use with a 24 pin motherboard, or totally unrelated?

**UncleMacro** · 07-11-2005, 08:23 PM

The four pin connector is a separate connector with two ground pins and two 12 volt pins. They added that to ATX a couple of years ago to beef up the 12 volt side of things. Just to confuse people more, some motherboards are starting to move to the server version of that connector which has 8 pins (an adapter).

Recent motherboards have changed from the 20 pin ATX connector to the 24 pin connector so they could add an extra ground, 3.3v, 5v, and 12v pin. You can plug the 20 pin ATX connector into the new 24 pin connector. You can also get an adapter like this or this but most of the time it's not necessary to use these.

v-six · 07-11-2005, 08:38 PM

Thanks again for all of your help Macro, I really appreciate it. Got more than what I bargained for here... I was actually planning on posting about the 20 pin issue, but it seems you saved me the trouble

07-11-2005, 12:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
v-six Manager Emeritus Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Gardiner, NY Posts: 2,076 OS: OS X for mac, XP Pro for PC	PCI Express vs. AGP 8x Hi all, I'll be doing a massive upgrade soon, and was wondering if I should upgrade from agp to pci express. Getting an athlon 64 bit 3000+ (Venice). I currently have a 256 mb radeon 9600. Would it be worth it to get a motherboard with pci express and get a new video card? I wouldn't want to spend more than 70 or 80 on the card, so I would probably just be getting an x300 unless someone can recommend a good budget card. (I do a bit of gaming, but not enough to need a high-end card... Mostly use the computer for general use and adobe/macromedia stuff) I don't know much about the advantages of pci express, so any input is appreciated. Thanks for reading __________________ mysql> --i-am-a-dummy

07-11-2005, 06:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
v-six Manager Emeritus Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Gardiner, NY Posts: 2,076 OS: OS X for mac, XP Pro for PC	Thanks for the advice... Macro, those cards are very tempting My card isn't pro, this is the link to it.. (no, i didn't pay that much!) http://www.rosewill.com/product/prod...x?productId=17 How would something like this stand up to the 9600? If it's slower, perhaps I'll try out one of your suggestions. much obliged __________________ mysql> --i-am-a-dummy

07-11-2005, 08:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
v-six Manager Emeritus Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Gardiner, NY Posts: 2,076 OS: OS X for mac, XP Pro for PC	I've only got one 12 volt rail, but its 35 amps, so it should handle lots. The atx power connector is only 20 pins though... there is another power connector with 4 pins, is this an adapter for use with a 24 pin motherboard, or totally unrelated? __________________ mysql> --i-am-a-dummy

07-11-2005, 08:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
UncleMacro TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,133 OS: Vista SP1 My System	The four pin connector is a separate connector with two ground pins and two 12 volt pins. They added that to ATX a couple of years ago to beef up the 12 volt side of things. Just to confuse people more, some motherboards are starting to move to the server version of that connector which has 8 pins (an adapter). Recent motherboards have changed from the 20 pin ATX connector to the 24 pin connector so they could add an extra ground, 3.3v, 5v, and 12v pin. You can plug the 20 pin ATX connector into the new 24 pin connector. You can also get an adapter like this or this but most of the time it's not necessary to use these. Last edited by UncleMacro; 07-11-2005 at 08:25 PM.

07-11-2005, 08:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
v-six Manager Emeritus Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Gardiner, NY Posts: 2,076 OS: OS X for mac, XP Pro for PC	Thanks again for all of your help Macro, I really appreciate it. Got more than what I bargained for here... I was actually planning on posting about the 20 pin issue, but it seems you saved me the trouble __________________ mysql> --i-am-a-dummy

07-11-2005, 02:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Grandmaster_Z Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 108 OS: WinXP Pro	If you don't really care about gaming, you don't really need to upgrade to PCI express. PCI Express bus just has more bandwidth.

07-11-2005, 06:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
UncleMacro TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,133 OS: Vista SP1 My System	It's true that PCI-Express offers no current performance advantage over AGP 8X. In fact, AGP 8X is only a couple of percent faster in games than AGP 4X and in non-games it doesn't matter at all. But the biggest advantage of PCI-Express is that it's the standard of the future. If I was making a "massive upgrade" I'd want to get something which is in the direction computers are going rather than where they've been. You may regret the lack of PCI-Express slots someday and not just because of the future lack of choice in video cards. Plus there are some excellent PCI-Express deals only slightly out of your price range like this ASUS PCX 5900 for $99. It's actually a high-end card of the previous generation which is very fast for the money. It's two or three times as fast as your Radeon 9600. Otherwise you can get an X600 Pro for about $82 which is 50% faster than what you currently have (assuming you have a 9600 non-pro).

07-11-2005, 06:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
UncleMacro TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,133 OS: Vista SP1 My System	The X300 is the PCI-Express version of the 9600. The X600 Pro is the PCI-Express version of the 9600 Pro. So that X300 is the same speed as what you currently have. The only real difference is that it has 128MB and you currently have 256MB which doesn't actually have any significant impact on performance. 128MB is fine for a video card of that speed. The PCX 5900 is a whole other league of video card. It's big - It's hot - It's way faster than the other video cards in that price range. Now and then you come across one of these really great deals where they're dumping their old hardware to make room for the new. On the AGP side of things it's the Radeon 9800 Pros which you can get for $130. That PCX5900 is actually a better deal.

07-11-2005, 07:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
UncleMacro TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,133 OS: Vista SP1 My System	Judging from the heatsinks... both. Anything which is reasonably quick these days tends to get pretty hot. If you're building a new machine then you should make sure you have a decent power supply anyway. Most of the new motherboards have moved to the 24 pin ATX power connector and the new power supplies have multiple 12 volt rails so they can handle the larger load on the 12 volt rail. Older power supplies have 20 pin connectors and don't provide as much juice on the 12 volt rail so when you're building a new machine you often need a power supply upgrade too.