Spidermike330

Dear Tech Support and those who wish to bang their head on a desk with me,

I will detail below a series of information (to avoid the wasting of anyone's time asking questions that could be answered up front)



Problem: Starting towards the end of September I had just purchased and installed Dead Space. After an amount of time into playing (1 to 3 hours) my display went black and my monitor went into no signal mode. My sound also went into infinite loop mode of the gun I had just fired. This was the first I noticed it. After a reboot everything was normal but I started looking into things.

Several weeks from the first onset of this issue it worsened to not being a one every few days problem, but to a 3 times a day minimal problem.

Now tonight after probing into things a lot more intensively and running video tests it completely died. I can hear my computer post but I can't get a display no matter what (I've ruled out the monitor).


COA (Course of Action): Now note as of this moment (and I will update if this changes) I cannot use my current computer. The only spare GPU I have tonight isn't PCI or PCI-e so I can't get into any logs to post. Please for the time being take my word on what I have run and I will try and get a temp GPU to compare and see *** is going on.

I have, in addition to my regularly weekly dates, run the following..
Anti-virus: Kaspersky Internet Security 2009 (nothing)
CCleaner (All temps cleared)
HijackThis log looked clear
Bootup was normal
System was defragged
I ran a full virus scan in safe mode as well.

So I ruled out viral, and thought temperature had to be my nemesis. My case is well cooled and upon inspection all fans were running so I checked the sensors using 2 programs
"Fanspeed" I think was the name of the one.
OCCT was the name of the other.

The averages were as follows while sitting at a desktop screen
CPU 32C
GPU 52C

The averages for playing Crysis at max settings for 20 minutes (after tabbing back from the results it crashed)
CPU 41C
GPU 64C

The crashes have happened at lower temps as well so there isn't a direct correlation to crashes and GPU temps in the 60's C.

My PSU is way over my estimated usage and this system has worked for about a year. I tested my power draw but did not write the numbers down. Everything seemed normal.

So I'm left to believe the GPU itself is FUBAR but I figured I'd check before purchasing a new one

I also neglected to mention my windows updates are all completed and I've tried several drivers. I've scrubbed them all twice (scrub meaning completely removing everything and reinstalling new drivers from scratch).


System Specs (will update when computer boots, if it does)
OS: Vista Ultimate
CPU: AMD 3ghz Dual Core
Memory: 4gb
GPU: Nvidia 8800gt




At this moment after 30 minutes of being off I can't get it to display. It did this to me once before and I simply removed the GPU to inspect the fan, reseated it and voila! It's late and I don't feel like messing with it but I will try that tomorrow and if it's to no avail I will attempt to test another GPU in my system.

Thanks for any input you can provide.. i'm about exhausted on options.

- Mike

Phædrus2401

We need to know:

Motherboard: brand and model
CPU: Exact name and model number
RAM: Brand, model, technology (DDR, DDR2, etc.), layout (one 4GB stick, two 2GB stick, etc), clock speed
Graphics card: Brand and exact model number
Power supply: Brand, model, wattage, amps on +12V rail
Case: Brand and model


Brand and model are the critical things, we can find out the rest from those.

My guess from your description of the issue is that it's a bad power supply, this is fairly typical of a PSU that was "just barely enough" when new now deteriorating to the point where it's "entirely insufficient".

Spidermike330

UPDATE: Reseated the card and actually got the system to work.

MOBO:
Manufacturer: GIGABYTE
Model: GA-M57SLI-S4
Type: AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor
Model: ADX6000CZBOX

MEMORY:
Manufacturer: A-DATA
240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel
Setup: 2x 2g chips
Model: ADQVE1B16K

GPU:
Manufacturer: EVGA
Model: 512-P3-N801-AR
Type: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512 MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCIe 2.1
HDCP Ready and SLI supported

PSU
Manufacturer: Raidmax
Model: RX-500S
ATX 12-V

+3.3V 28.0A
+5V 38A
+12V 22.0A
-5V .5A
-12V .8A
+5Vsb 2A
Watts 500w


CASE
Brand: Raidmax Smilodon ATX-612WBP




Sorry for the delay on this information, was late when I made the original post and didn't want to dive into it's guts again. Thanks again
- Mike

Phædrus2401

It's the power supply. Look at the current ratings: the current on the +3.3V and +5V rails is higher than the current on the +12V rail. The two lower-voltage rails can supply ~280W of power, while the +12V rail can only supply ~260W. In other words, if you were using a Pentium III era machine this would be an average 500W PSU. With modern computers that primarily use the +12V rail, this is a low-end 300W PSU. Furthermore, Raidmax is a shoddy PSU manufacturer and uses low-end internal components.

My earlier diagnosis was right: you had a PSU that was just barely enough to run your system. As a power supply gets older the amount of power it can deliver decreases: traces and wires corrode, capacitors leak (especially the cheap Chinese ones Raidmax uses), and everything just sort of degrades, and as it does so the amount of current the parts can handle decreases. So a power supply that could deliver 500W new, might only deliver 400W a year or two later.

So I'd say your PSU is junk. I would replace it with a unit like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=Corsair%20550
Or the TX650W if you can swing the extra $10.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=Corsair%20650

For a comparison, the +12V rail on the Corsair VX550W is rated at 41A, which yields 492W, or 89.5% of the PSU's total power rating. Your Raidmax PSU has 22A on the +12V rail, which is 264W, or 52.8% of the PSU's total power rating. Since modern computers draw ~85%+ from the +12V rail, the Corsair's power rating reflects its real world power rating, while the Raidmax doesn't.

Spidermike330

Thanks again for the quick response. After reading your initial diagnosis I had eyed the CORSAIR 650TX because it was on sale and seemed sufficient for my needs. With the reviews on the product and the recommendation I think I will go ahead with this purchase.

I have another question for you on this though. It says it's SLI ready and I have my SLI bridge. I was considering purchasing a second 8800GT in the future. Do you feel the CORSAIR 650TX would be good for now and future growth.

..and thanks again. I really appreciate the help and explanations. Most like forums I've read elsewhere were just like "do this" with no "this is why". =P


Oooooh.. and were my temps of any concern at all on the GPU? With full load getting in the high 60's C. Just curious if I should look into possibly cooling that down. I had looked at the PCI cooling components, seemed like a good idea but after reading reviews and talking to someone they sound like total junk.

Phædrus2401

We generally feel that SLI isn't usually worth it. With a screen resolution smaller than ~1920x1200 the performance improvement from adding a second card is usually only 15-25%. We also usually recommend an 850W power supply for SLI of two high-end cards, the Corsair TX850W, HX850W, and SeaSonic M12D 850W are what we usually recommend. With two mid-range cards, we usually recommend a 750W. The 8800GT falls right in-between what we consider mid-range and high-end so it's hard to say, but I would suggest the 850W; better safe than sorry.

If you wanted to upgrade I'd say the best thing to do right now would be to get a Corsair TX650W and a Radeon 5770 graphics card, which comes to about $260. However, be aware that the 5770 is brand new, it just released this week, and while it performs on the same level as the Radeon 4890 for $40 less there may still be bugs to be worked out. You may also run into stability issues running an ATI graphics card on an Nvidia motherboard. If you want to wait for a graphics card upgrade, Nvidia is releasing its GT300 cards around Christmas, to compete with ATI's new HD5000 cards. We could give you some more advice then.


As for your temperatures, they're just fine. As long as you don't go over ~75C in normal gaming usage there's no problem. My 4870 gets up to 68C during really intensive gaming. If you do want your graphics card to be cooler, a better solution than those PCI slot coolers would be an aftermarket GPU heatsink. Zalman and Arctic Cooling make some pretty good ones. Unfortunately they're rather difficult to install, much more so than most computer building tasks, and it usually voids the GPU warranty. Your call on that.



Glad to help, we try to provide the best tech support possible here and I don't think you can have good tech support unless the person you're helping knows what's going on, so they know exactly what to do and know that they aren't being swindled.


I think the new PSU should solve your issue, there's a chance that running the 8800GT on that PSU may have damaged it, and it has certainly reduced its lifespan a bit (a GPU on a quality PSU can last 5-10 years; on a shoddy PSU it can start to die in as little as 1-3 years). But I don't think so, and we'll deal with that problem if/when it shows up. You should be fine.

Good luck!