need help Video card issue

NuBKiLLa · 08-03-2009, 10:42 PM

Hi, i have been having problems lately where i have been playing games and all of a sudden the monitor says no signal but the cpu and tower are still running

Here are my specs

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E7300

Motherboard: Asus P5G5-MX 1333

RAM: 4GB G.Skill (2 x 2GB)

Hard Drive for OS: 160GB WD Sata 8MB Cache

Video Card: MSI ATI Radeon HD 4830 PCI-E 512MB

Keyboard/Mouse - Razer Lycosa/Diamondback 3G

OS: Win XP

Monitor: Acer 22 inch

I am a huge gamer

Thank you in advnace for helping

**emosun** · 08-03-2009, 10:55 PM

Power supply make and model?

NuBKiLLa · 08-04-2009, 12:06 AM

The Raidmax Smilodon Extreme ATX-612WEBP is equipped with a powerful 500W power supply unit

i came with this case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811156098

so its a raidmax

Phædrus2401 · 08-04-2009, 12:08 AM

For a 4830 a 500w is shaving it just a little thin, and power supplies that come bundled with a case are often the cheapest of the cheap. It's quite possible that your PSU is going bad from overwork. If you have another power supply or another graphics card available I would try them in your computer and see if that fixes (or exacerbates) the problem.

NuBKiLLa · 08-04-2009, 12:09 AM

well i dont have another graphics card or psu so i cant test

NuBKiLLa · 08-04-2009, 12:16 AM

is there anyway to check if it is a graphic card or psu problem without replacing it?

Phædrus2401 · 08-04-2009, 12:21 AM

You could go to a local computer shop and see if they'd test one of their GPUs or PSUs in your computer for you, if they're nice they'll do it for free, at worst you might have to pay like $20-40. I'd schmooze with the techs for a bit before asking, just for good measure.

NuBKiLLa · 08-04-2009, 12:22 AM

lol alright thanks man ima go try that

NuBKiLLa · 08-04-2009, 06:46 PM

any chance i can test my graphic card or psu without bringing it to the shop to test?

Phædrus2401 · 08-04-2009, 07:51 PM

Do you have a volt/am/multimeter? Do you have any other computers that you could test the PSU in? If not, then no.

**emosun** · 08-04-2009, 10:49 PM

It's definitely that power supply , easy. Your suppose to throw away the junk power supplies that come free with cases , nobody actually uses those.

Phædrus2401 · 08-04-2009, 11:11 PM

I used the old burnt-out 250w from my old eMachines as a bookend for about two weeks, but the cables got in the way and were too thick to cut so I threw it out.

NuBKiLLa · 08-04-2009, 11:31 PM

ye your probably right gonna replace it

**emosun** · 08-04-2009, 11:55 PM

Correction , they do make very good book ends.

NuBKiLLa · 08-05-2009, 12:19 AM

well i mean idk what power supply to get, ima go to college in like a year so im just gonna end up leaving this comp at home so i dont wanna waste too much money, any suggestions?

**emosun** · 08-05-2009, 01:44 AM

For a 4830? Stay above 600w , this would be the cheapest I would use on the system

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005

NuBKiLLa · 08-05-2009, 09:37 PM

just wondering could i use either of these two?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341022

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341017

Phædrus2401 · 08-05-2009, 09:57 PM

They'll work better than what you have now, but they're still not very good. One is a little higher quality, but a little short of what you need power wise, while the other has enough juice, but is a bit crappier.

Trust me, it's worth spending the extra $25 for one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=Corsair%20650 And with rebates it's only $5 more expensive.

NuBKiLLa · 08-05-2009, 10:05 PM

well i read that a 4830 requires very little power to run it? why do i need such a high powered PSU?

Phædrus2401 · 08-05-2009, 10:09 PM

Power Supply Information and Selection

Quote:

By the way, just so you know how insufficient power can damage a graphics card, here's an explanation. You see, RAM is very sensitive to voltage--a fifth of a volt too high and it might fail. A power supply which is having too much power drawn from it can experience voltage fluctuations, where the voltage it delivers can vary by as much as half a volt. Usually these fluctuations are on the low side, but occasionally they can spike, and each time they do there's a chance they can kill a RAM sector. Your system memory is vulnerable enough, but you have a lot less graphics memory, and during games it's being written to a lot more than your system RAM is. So whenever you play a game with a power hungry graphics card and an underpowered PSU you're slowly killing your graphics card's VRAM. As sectors go bad any information written to them will be corrupted, so then when your card writes data from those corrupted sectors to the screen they can show up as all types of artifacts, depending on what exactly the GPU is drawing. So it's very important to always have a PSU that is not just powerful enough to run your card, but stable enough at the power draw you'll be running it at that you won't have bad voltage fluctuations chipping away at your VRAM's integrity.

Quote:

There are several factors in a PSU's quality.

First is the number of +12V rails. The majority of your computer's power comes from the +12V rail, and so it needs to be able to deliver a lot of current effectively. The best configuration is a single powerful +12V rail. Many cheap manufacturers like to use 2 or 4 +12V rail configurations since it's cheaper. However this creates several issues. First it's harder to figure out compatibility, since it's hard to know what rails go to which components. Second, more rails means a more complex design, and thus more to go wrong.

The second factor is the amps on the +12V rail. Many PSU manufacturers will make the +5V and +3.3V rails very powerful with a lot of current, again since it's cheaper than making a powerful +12V rail. Thus even though you have a 500w PSU, if your +5V and +3.3V each carry as much current as your +12V rail then you're only getting about 300W on your +12V rail. Power = Current X Voltage. My 750w Corsair PSU has 60A on the +12V rail, so 60A X 12V equals 720W! My +5V and +3.3V are each at 30A, but since they don't deliver more than 20% of the computer's power they aren't factored as heavily into the total wattage. A shoddy manufacturer will count the +5V and +3.3V as heavily as the +12V.

Third factor is efficiency. A high efficiency PSU loses less energy as heat, sound, and electrical noise, and so is all-around more desirable. We recommend PSUs that are 80+ certified, which means that they are certified to always run at 80% or higher efficiency at or below the rated wattage.

Fourth factor is the PFC, or Power Factor Correction. The explanation for this is rather technical, but in short having active PFC can make your PSU more stable and efficient, and also make things easier for the guys down at your local power plant and/or substation. Always try to get a PSU with active PFC, and though passive PFC isn't great it's still preferable to no PFC at all.

Fifth is overall construction quality. This is harder to figure out without actually dissecting the part, but cheap PSUs use cheap components. Thus a cheap power supply almost always wears out quicker than a quality one. Also a quality power supply will usually have a quiet, effective fan, while cheaper ones may be noisy.

Those are most of the main things to consider when buying a power supply. The brands in my signature are the ones recommended most, except OCZ, only get their more expensive models as a lot of the cheaper ones are crap.

Quote:

It isn't that your computer is going to be drawing a full 550w of power. The thing is that your power supply delivers electricity in different ways, primarily on three main "rails": the +12V (may be several), the +5V, and the +3.3V. The vast majority of your power is drawn from your +12V rail, as much as 80% or more. What many shoddy manufacturers will do is factor the +12V, +5V, and +3.3V rails equally into the final power rating; thus your 520W PSU may only be able to deliver 300W from its +12V rail.

Also, if a power supply has multiple +12V rails (which many cheap ones do) power can be "trapped" on rails that aren't in full use; if you have two +12V rails that deliver 12A of current each, and one of them is only using 7A and the other needs to be delivering 15A of current, the power you need will be trapped on the underused rail.

Also, the higher the load on a rail the less efficient and more "noisy" it gets. This means that it will run hotter and waste electricity as heat, lowering its effective power rating, and also will have variations in the voltage and current which can cause your components to run less efficiently as well, and even damage delicate components like RAM. Finally, when a cheap power supply fails it will usually have little or no short circuit, over voltage, or over current protection, so it will deliver a burst of "dirty" power that can destroy your other components' delicate circuitry.

I need to just compile all this stuff in one thread and have the staff make it a sticky. It's annoying having to say the same things over and over.

08-03-2009, 10:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
emosun Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: usa Posts: 7,031 OS: xp pro sp2 My System	Re: need help Video card issue Power supply make and model? __________________ Gpu Benchmarks Cpu-Z Power supply information and selection Gpu-Z Video card quick list

08-04-2009, 12:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
NuBKiLLa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 32 OS: xp sp2	Re: need help Video card issue The Raidmax Smilodon Extreme ATX-612WEBP is equipped with a powerful 500W power supply unit i came with this case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811156098 so its a raidmax

08-04-2009, 12:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
Phædrus2401 Hardware Tech Team Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 3,845 OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 + Ubuntu 9.04 My System	Re: need help Video card issue For a 4830 a 500w is shaving it just a little thin, and power supplies that come bundled with a case are often the cheapest of the cheap. It's quite possible that your PSU is going bad from overwork. If you have another power supply or another graphics card available I would try them in your computer and see if that fixes (or exacerbates) the problem. __________________ Good PSU brands: Corsair, SeaSonic, CWT, PC Power and Cooling, Thermaltake Toughpower, CoolerMaster Real Power Pro On 80+ Certification - PSU Information and Selection - Power Supply Myths You don't get what you don't pay for.

08-04-2009, 12:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
NuBKiLLa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 32 OS: xp sp2	Re: need help Video card issue well i dont have another graphics card or psu so i cant test

08-04-2009, 12:16 AM	#6 (permalink)
NuBKiLLa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 32 OS: xp sp2	Re: need help Video card issue is there anyway to check if it is a graphic card or psu problem without replacing it?

08-04-2009, 12:21 AM	#7 (permalink)
Phædrus2401 Hardware Tech Team Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 3,845 OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 + Ubuntu 9.04 My System	Re: need help Video card issue You could go to a local computer shop and see if they'd test one of their GPUs or PSUs in your computer for you, if they're nice they'll do it for free, at worst you might have to pay like $20-40. I'd schmooze with the techs for a bit before asking, just for good measure. __________________ Good PSU brands: Corsair, SeaSonic, CWT, PC Power and Cooling, Thermaltake Toughpower, CoolerMaster Real Power Pro On 80+ Certification - PSU Information and Selection - Power Supply Myths You don't get what you don't pay for.

08-04-2009, 12:22 AM	#8 (permalink)
NuBKiLLa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 32 OS: xp sp2	Re: need help Video card issue lol alright thanks man ima go try that

08-04-2009, 06:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
NuBKiLLa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 32 OS: xp sp2	Re: need help Video card issue any chance i can test my graphic card or psu without bringing it to the shop to test?

08-04-2009, 07:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Phædrus2401 Hardware Tech Team Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 3,845 OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 + Ubuntu 9.04 My System	Re: need help Video card issue Do you have a volt/am/multimeter? Do you have any other computers that you could test the PSU in? If not, then no. __________________ Good PSU brands: Corsair, SeaSonic, CWT, PC Power and Cooling, Thermaltake Toughpower, CoolerMaster Real Power Pro On 80+ Certification - PSU Information and Selection - Power Supply Myths You don't get what you don't pay for.

08-04-2009, 10:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
emosun Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: usa Posts: 7,031 OS: xp pro sp2 My System	Re: need help Video card issue It's definitely that power supply , easy. Your suppose to throw away the junk power supplies that come free with cases , nobody actually uses those. __________________ Gpu Benchmarks Cpu-Z Power supply information and selection Gpu-Z Video card quick list

08-04-2009, 11:11 PM	#12 (permalink)
Phædrus2401 Hardware Tech Team Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 3,845 OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 + Ubuntu 9.04 My System	Re: need help Video card issue I used the old burnt-out 250w from my old eMachines as a bookend for about two weeks, but the cables got in the way and were too thick to cut so I threw it out. __________________ Good PSU brands: Corsair, SeaSonic, CWT, PC Power and Cooling, Thermaltake Toughpower, CoolerMaster Real Power Pro On 80+ Certification - PSU Information and Selection - Power Supply Myths You don't get what you don't pay for.

08-04-2009, 11:31 PM	#13 (permalink)
NuBKiLLa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 32 OS: xp sp2	Re: need help Video card issue ye your probably right gonna replace it

08-04-2009, 11:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
emosun Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: usa Posts: 7,031 OS: xp pro sp2 My System	Re: need help Video card issue Correction , they do make very good book ends. __________________ Gpu Benchmarks Cpu-Z Power supply information and selection Gpu-Z Video card quick list

08-05-2009, 12:19 AM	#15 (permalink)
NuBKiLLa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 32 OS: xp sp2	Re: need help Video card issue well i mean idk what power supply to get, ima go to college in like a year so im just gonna end up leaving this comp at home so i dont wanna waste too much money, any suggestions?

08-05-2009, 01:44 AM	#16 (permalink)
emosun Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: usa Posts: 7,031 OS: xp pro sp2 My System	Re: need help Video card issue For a 4830? Stay above 600w , this would be the cheapest I would use on the system http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005 __________________ Gpu Benchmarks Cpu-Z Power supply information and selection Gpu-Z Video card quick list

08-05-2009, 09:37 PM	#17 (permalink)
NuBKiLLa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 32 OS: xp sp2	Re: need help Video card issue just wondering could i use either of these two? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341022 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341017

08-05-2009, 09:57 PM	#18 (permalink)
Phædrus2401 Hardware Tech Team Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 3,845 OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 + Ubuntu 9.04 My System	Re: need help Video card issue They'll work better than what you have now, but they're still not very good. One is a little higher quality, but a little short of what you need power wise, while the other has enough juice, but is a bit crappier. Trust me, it's worth spending the extra $25 for one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=Corsair%20650 And with rebates it's only $5 more expensive. __________________ Good PSU brands: Corsair, SeaSonic, CWT, PC Power and Cooling, Thermaltake Toughpower, CoolerMaster Real Power Pro On 80+ Certification - PSU Information and Selection - Power Supply Myths You don't get what you don't pay for.

08-05-2009, 10:05 PM	#19 (permalink)
NuBKiLLa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 32 OS: xp sp2	Re: need help Video card issue well i read that a 4830 requires very little power to run it? why do i need such a high powered PSU?