Gain

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum, and since I've been looking into upgrading my computer a bit lately, so I'll probably be around these forums for a bit on and off.

Anyways, lately (meaning the past month or two) I've been getting quite frustrated with the FPS in the games I play. I don't find my computer to be all that bad overall, but it seems like the GPU is way behind everything else. Anyways here's the specs.

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4Ghz
RAM: 3GB DDR2 @ 400MHz (slow right)
OS: Windows Vista 32-Bit
Motherboard: Acer MCP73PV
PSU: Unknown at this point. (guessing 400 or 500 but im not sure)
GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD 3450 (came with the comp)

Lately I've been looking into this card and at the moment I've really got my heart set on it. Anyways, that's not really the problem. Before I upgrade my GPU, I was wondering if 20-40 FPS in intense battle or 50-120 FPS indoors is really the performance of the HD3450 or if it's underclocked, which brings me to my next question/comment.

I happen to have EVEREST Ultimate, and have had it for quite a while, though I haven't really installed it. Anyways, I was trying to find out my motherboard name in Everest today, I looked under GPU and found the following:

GPU Clock 110 MHz (original: 600 MHz)
Memory Clock 252 MHz (original: 400 MHz)

It says "original 600 MHz" and "original 400 MHz". Does this mean my card is underclocked? Or is this only the speed it has to be to run my desktop?

Edit: By the way, what power supply do you recommend with this rig and the 4890? The quick list says like 700W but I don't know if I need that much. Though I'm not quite sure.

emosun

For a 4890 and a quad , 700w sounds just about right. Make sure you get a decent quality 700w and not a cheapo junk one.

As for the clock speeds use rivatuner to view your speeds more accurately.

Gain

My budget, after the $300 CAD GPU won't let me get the best 700W, but how about these two?

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817153039

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817139006

The 750 is actually cheaper and the reviews look pretty good.

About rivatuner and overclocking: Would that mean you think my card is underclocked? Or just at the time it didn't need much energy.

emosun

The corsair 750 would work good. As for riva tuner it's just a gpu related program and will read the clock speeds of the card better then everest.

Gain

Sorry about bumping this thread. I find it more logical to bump my own thread instead of making a new one and taking up more bandwidth.

Anyways I slightly OCed my 3450. That's going all good. The 4890 XOC was disabled but that's fine because I can just OC the original one.

However I was talking to a friend about this stuff and he got me worried. He said I would also need liquid cooling unless I leave my GPU at 70C with 100% fan speed which I don't like the sound of at all. He also said he recomends getting 1 or 2 Gb more RAM if I'm going to run games like Crysis. I kind of agree, but I don't know if games use more RAM on higher graphics settings. The most usage I've ever been up to during GTA 4 was 70% and very rarely do I multitask while playing resource-sucking games. Though it would be nice to be able to. Anyways since he brought up RAM as I expected OSes came up as well. He also reccomends vista 64 while I have 32. Although I could probably borrow one from my dad that's still totaling probably over $500 which is over my budget unless I save up for a lot longer but I don't know if I can wait that long. So if any of you have advice. Is 3 GB RAM enough? Do I need liquid cooling or will the card handle temp itself? Please if you have a moment kindly answer my questions or share yourcopinion on what I should do.

wrench97

3 Gig is plenty for XP 32bit you'll never use all of it.
What does Rivatuner report for the GPU Temp?
What model Aspire do you have?

Gain

That's just it. I have Vista 32-bit, not XP.

So does RAM usage actually change with the graphics settings you have in a game? Because if it does I'm screwed. Well not really screwed, I'd just have to add RAM to my list.

My Aspire model is the "M5640". Apparently max RAM is 4 GB. I thought that depended on the OS though? Or maybe on the slots.

Anyways the GPU temps when idle like right now when I'm not doing much is 49C from my 3450. I can't seem to get it from rivatuner because under driver settings it says "Catalyst detected" and there's no "customize". Oh and my GPU speed under load (CoD4) is 55-65C. I don't find that too bad though because I've never modded the fan and also I've had the computer since last July and my GPU hasn't died on me yet.

Edit: Should I upgrade to 64-bit and 6 GB RAM?

wrench97

Even Vista has a 2Gig per program limit, and your motherboard is limited to 4gig, 2Gig in each of the two slots.
Your not going to see any difference with 64bit and 4Gig of ram.

Gain

Hmm. so should I just buy another 1GB for the heck of it? It would be nice for a little extra.

Wait so if Vista has a 2GB per program limit, that means all I really need is 2 GB to run any game?

Phædrus2401

A 32-bit OS will only recognize a maximum of about 3.25GB of RAM, which is plenty for your needs. You should always leave 512-1024MB for your OS and any background processes to run on, so 3GB sounds just about right, though DDR2 800 or 1066 RAM might be worth getting over the 400Mhz you have.

RAM usage will not go up appreciably with higher graphics settings unless you have a card with shared memory, which you don't (now or with the 4890) so no worries there.

I'd go with a Corsair CMPSU-750tx 750 watt power supply for your build, 850tx if you want to overclock.

Gain

Okay last question. Do I really need a 750/800W PSU? I was reading lots of the reviews on newegg of the card I'm gonna get. A few people said it ran fine on 500/550W, which could save a good $50 for me. One guy's comp seemed better than mine too. And I took a PSU calf and ended up with 332W, give or take 50. So do I really need a big 700W PSU?

Oh and should I OC my RAM? What exactly does RAM speed change? I thought ram was more like an amount thing like bandwidth, not a speed thing. And also how DO I OC my processor or RAM. I guess I could search it up but it would be easier and more understanding if someone could tell me.

wrench97

For a 4890 yes 700-750w is best for long term use you don't want run the supply at 100% it will shorten the life of the PSU and card if underpowered.

Gain

Thanks a lot emo, wrench, and phaedrus! I'll probably order my card and PSU in 1-2 weeks.

wrench97

Let us know how it goes/

Phædrus2401

Glad to help.

RAM has four important properties: format (don't know if that's the right word, but it's like DDR/DDR2/DDR3, etc), capacity, clock speed, and latency. Format just tells you what type of RAM it is. Capacity, of course, is how much RAM you have. Clock speed tells you how many times a second the RAM can be accessed. Latency tells you how long it takes the RAM to find a given bit and send it to the bus. Higher clock speed and lower latency make faster RAM. How fast your RAM is will have some impact on how fast your computer is, but not much. You'd notice a difference between, say, 400MHz and 1200MHz RAM, but not between 1066MHz and 1200MHz. I'd say that 800 or 1066 would be a worthwhile upgrade over 400. Note: all DDR2 RAM will run at 800MHz (or at its rated speed if <800) when first installed. You have to overclock to get to higher settings. 1066 and 1200 DDR2 RAM is just memory that is tested stable at those clock speeds. I forget what the standards are for DDR and DDR3 RAM since I haven't worked much with them, but the same concept applies.

Hope this helps.

Gain

Will do, wrench.

I just popped open my case for a few minutes today, just to see what I'd be dealing with. I noticed my GPU didn't even have a fan on it, probably simply because it was so low-end and more meant for multimedia instead of all these games I throw at it. Still can't wait to get my new one, I just hope it fits because it's rather close to the SLI/Crossfire slot on my mobo. I've been looking around for dimensions and found length but not width. If it was made close to the SLI slot, it should be wide enough right?

And thanks for the explanation about ram, Phaedrus. A bit of knowledge to add to my brain. I think I remember my dad explaining something about speed of RAM being accessed one time, but I forget now what he said.

And yes, when I get them both installed, I will let you know, either by this thread or by PM how it goes and how I'm enjoying it. I hope it lives up to my games!

~Gain

Edit: Just found this on the Diamond site:
11.75 inches long, 9.5 inches wide, and 3 inches in depth? Makes sense to me. I have my computer hooked up again now obviously, but when I have some time to spare I'll pop it open again and make some measurements.

Phædrus2401

Keep in mind you'll want at least an extra quarter of an inch *MINIMUM* past the length of the card, to give room for the PCIe power connectors to plug into the card. If it's anything like the 4870 they'll be at the very end of the card, and you'll want to have room to bend the wires.

The *worst* thing about building computers is so-called "mechanical" incompatibility; the card is too big, the wires won't bend enough, the motherboard screws and the case's standoffs are mismatched (GRRRRRR*), all these things that stop an otherwise great build from working at first, or at all. Don't worry though; if you measure first you don't have to deal with the whole process of RMAing the part and finding something else to do the trick.

*Funny story about those standoffs. First time I ever put a computer together I got the case used from a friend, but he didn't tell me, and I didn't read on the internet, and the mobo manual didn't say, that I needed standoffs. So I just screwed the motherboard straight into the case, turned it on... *BRRRRZZZTT* Fried it. I sent it back to newegg praying that they wouldn't inspect it too closely (they didn't, thank Ghu), then confronted my friend. He grudgingly dug up six standoffs. The motherboard needed nine, but I figured six would do. Got the replacement mobo in, started to screw it in... The screws got stuck. They were too big for the standoffs, so they got stuck and when I unscrewed I took the whole standoff with it, had to unscrew four standoffs using pliers. Fed up, I went to Computer Parts USA and went through their box of screws and such and manually tested each standoff I found to make sure it was the right size and managed to find nine that worked. Got home, put the computer together, all went smoothly, yay done. Next build I got a new case (Antec 900) and I cannot TELL you how relieved I was that it had a whole box full of matching screws and standoffs.

[/off topic]

Anyway, good luck to ya'!

Gain

LOL you're lucky they didn't notice.

Anyways so, PCIe power connectors would be the ones on the outside of the case, the green plug, right?

And, which wires are you referring to?: http://www.computerstfw.com/Products...%20%20side.JPG

Phædrus2401

Outside the case? Don't know what you're talking about, mate.

The PCIe power connectors look like this: http://techreport.com/r.x/psus-0907/pcie-connectors.jpg
The one on the left is a PCIe x6 connector and the one on the right is a PCIe x6+2 connector. Basically some GPUs require more juice so they require an 8 pin connector instead of 6, but the 6+2 lets you have 8 or 6 pins depending on whether or not you use the extra 2. The place where they plug in is on the card and in the case of the 4890:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/images...90leakspan.jpg
It looks like it takes two PCIe x6 connectors, up on the upper-right-hand side of the card in that picture. You just find the PCIe connectors on your PSU (or plug them in if it's modular) then plug them into the appropriate slots on the GPU.

Since they're at the far end of the card you want to make sure that the PCIe connectors won't be blocked by, say, your hard drive or something. You want at least a quarter of an inch, preferably half an inch, of space past the end, so that the wires have room to fit in.

Gain

Ah I get what you're saying now. From what I recall there was quite a bit (a lot more than an inch) of room between the wires and my hard disk/drive, just the way my case was built. I'll double check, say, tomorrow if I have any time just to be on the safe side though. I'll also check to see if the card will actually fit in general as well.

By the way, do you happen to know of any programs that would let me change the fan speed of the 4890 (to crank it up to 30-40 (is what they say you should do) when gaming)? It didn't seem to work with rivatuner (same with OCing) as there was no "customize" option under drivers (unless Catalyst CC could do it OR the 4890's drivers would be supported)