Priscilla_Anne

I was working on upgrading a computer here and after buying RAM, a video card and a power supply for it, I gave up on it. It was an old Dell with proprietary connectors on the motherboard harder to match than finding Bigfoot. And more importantly, I finally realized it is just not a good enough motherboard to bother with. So I am giving that to my friend who is running win98 se on about a 150MHz processor with about 64Mb RAM, circa 1998 machine. She rarely uses it because she can do her serious internet tasks at work. But that old Dell with XP and a 920MHz processor and the 512Mb RAM I put into it will be a vast improvement for her.

But that leaves me with the video card and the power supply I bought for it and I really am hoping to put these in the refurbished computer that I just got for myself.

MOST OF ALL;
I need to find out if the power supply I got will work with the motherboard in this computer.

System information tells me this about the processor/computer:
AMD Athlon (tm) XP 1800, 1.49 GHz, 384Mb RAM.


The power supply that I have and would like to install can be viewed at www.highpowersupply.com.
It is a 400Watt peak output supply;
Model SI-A400M2
At their website
http://www.highpowersupply.com/product-ps-sia400M2.html
alongside this power supply
it says: "Recommended for AthlonTM XP systems."

I did not buy it from them, I bought it new, unused, at eBAY for $24. But at the time I bought it, I was intending it for a different computer than the one I now hope to use it in.

Some of the voltages this supply provides are given at the web site (and they are listed on a sticker on the supply itself as well):

Output
Volt Load MAX Regulation Ripple
1. +5V 25.0A +5% ~ -5% 80 mV
2. +12V1 10.0A +5% ~ -5% 120 mV
3. +12V2 15.0A +5% ~ -5% 120 mV
3. -12V 0.5A +10% ~ -10% 150 mV
4. +5VSB 2.0A +5% ~ -5% 80 mV
5. +3.3V 17.0A +5% ~ -5% 80 mV


But I don't know what voltages this motherboard requires. I don't know the outputs of the power supply that is currently in here. Maybe it is already 300Watts, I don't know.



Next, the video card:
I bought that power supply to provide
the power needed by this video card:

Sapphire X1650PRO (VPU)
Ati Radeon graphics
512 Mb DDR2 memory
AGP 8x (AGP version)
The system requirements on the box
say "AMD AThlon 64/K7/Athlon XP with AGP 8X (0.8V), 4X(1.5V), or universal AGP bus configuration
(8X/4X)


I saw an AGP slot in the motherboard
when the technician opened the case for me when I was buying it. So that looks promising.
And whatever it means, Device manager lists a
"SIS processor to AGP controller."

I don't know much about motherboards and have not even tried to search about this one online. I might not understand what I find even if I find it.

The person on eBAY that sold this video card (new, unused) said it was recommended to have 350 Watts for this. But I see NOTHING on the box that indicates the need for that much power. Not even in the installation instructions. Surely they should mention that requirement if the card really needs that much power.

Here is another question:
If the power supply I bought is not compatible with this motherboard, would there be any risk
of running that video card without a 400W power supply? I DO NOT RUN PROGRAMS THAT put high demand on Graphics cards. The only "games" I run are old commanche 4 (and other) circa 2001 helicopter simulations. They do require SOME game type graphics calculations, but these things ran on computers in the year 2000, so we know they can't demand TOO much from the graphics card.

Summarizing my questions:
1. Is this power supply compatible with the motherboard in this computer?
(and what other information must I provide
so you can determine that?)

2. Is there any risk if I run the video card without putting in the 400W power supply - as long as I am not running graphics-intense modern games?

Thank You!

ultimawar

im pretty sure you can run it on a 300w PSU. i ran my 8600 gt on a 300w PSU and it worked perfectly fine..

just need the 12v rail to be like 18A output for mine, not sure for the ati 1600 tho

emosun

Post the make and model of the pc. Most likely the powersupply and videocard will work fine.

Priscilla_Anne

Model and make?
It says "Antec" on the front.
I don't see anything else to tell you.
Where would I look for this information?

emosun

ok , download "cpu z" and it should show all the hardware you have. What I'll need to know is what motherboard it has.

Priscilla_Anne

Okay, the only hard part about this is trying to read the microscopic print on the output screen.

Thank you for helping. And for this CPU -Z tool.

Motherboard:
Manufacturer: ECS
Model K7S5A
chipset Sis 735
Southbridge SiS LPC Bridge
LPCIO ITE IT8705

BIOS Brand American Megatrends Inc.
Version 07.00T
Date 04/02/01

Graphic Interface
Version AGP version 2.0
Transfer Rate 1x Max Supported 4x
Side Band Addressing enabled.

CPU:
AMD Athlon XP
Code Name Thoroughbred
Package Socket A (462)
Technology 0.13 um
Core Voltage 1.632
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1800+
Family 6 Model 8 Stepping 1
Ext. Family 7 Ext. Model 8 Revision B0
Instructions MMX(+), 3DNow! (+), SSE

Clocks (Core #0)
Core Speed 1493.7 MHz
Multiplier x15.0
Buss Speed 99.6 MHz
Rated FSB 199.2 MHz

Cache
L1 Data 64 kBytes
L1 Inst. 64 kBytes
Level 2 256 kBytes

Selection (greyed out "Processor #1) Cores 1 Threads 1

Memory:
Type DDR
Size 384Mb

Timings
CAS# Latency (CL) 2.5 clocks
RAS# to CAS # Delay (tRCD) 3 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 4 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) 6 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 10 clocks

Boy this is a lot to copy and type!

Memory Slot Selection:
Slot #1
DDR
Module Size 128 Mb
Max Bandwidth PC2700 (166 MHz)
Manufacturer Samsung
Part Number M3 68L 1624DTM-CB3
Serial Number 060CF371
Correction None
Registered No
Buffered No
Week / Year 33/03

Timings Table
Freq 133MHz 166MHz
CAS# Latency 2.0 2.5
RAS# to CAS # 3 3
RAS # Precharge 3 3
tRAS 6 7

Voltage 2.5 2.5

Turns out there is also a SLOT #2 memory.
I am getting lazy so I pasted a copy of the above
and edited the numbers that were different.
Hopefully I caught them all.

Slot #2
DDR
Module Size 256 Mb
Max Bandwidth PC2700 (166 MHz)
Manufacturer Spec Tec Inc
Part Number --------
Serial Number 1817C8DA
Correction None
Registered No
Buffered No
Week / Year 09/05

Timings Table
Freq 100MHz 166MHz
CAS# Latency 2.0 2.5
RAS# to CAS # 2 3
RAS # Precharge 2 3
tRAS 5 7

Voltage 2.5 2.5


I notice in the "ABOUT" section there are "TOOLS"
What does "Registers Dump (.txt)" mean?
What does "HTML Dump (.htm) mean?
What is the "VALIDATION" button do?

emosun

Yea the powersupply and videocard should work fine with that motherboard. However you should buy a better powersupply. That one is not very good quality at all.

emosun

I don't know just leave em alone.

Priscilla_Anne

Thank you for evaluating this for me!

Well, that is both good news AND bad news!

Do I really have to worry about that power supply not being a very good one? Can't I just use it until it dies? If it dies on me can it fry my mother board in the process or does it just fail at some point?

I already found out that I am going to have to buy a new XP install disk and install a fresh version of the operating system and then re-install my applications again. This is all starting to seem like it will never end. Before all this I was trying to upgrade a Dell Dimension 4100 and bought things for that. After spending some time and money on that I decided the machine wasn't worth upgrading. So I have already been doing these kinds of things for a while longer than I want. I will give the Dell to a friend so it is not a complete loss, but it hasn't gotten me anywhere towards having my own computer.

Sorry if I am babbling and complaining... I'm just sleep deprived and tired and a little discouraged today.

But I am glad you think the PSU and video card will work in this thing.

emosun

Yea they will work. I guess you can try it , but its really a cheap unit. If the machine starts to crash or has bad artifacts in games , then change it.

Also you might want to add more ram. 384mb of ram is pretty low. We normally recommend 512 as the minimum for xp to run smoothly. And if your planning on gaming its definitly not enough. Luckly ram is a cheap thing.

Priscilla_Anne

Okay, good to know I can try it and I can watch for glitches.

I totally intend to add RAM. This will handle 2Gigs and I will work on buying that as soon as some bigger challenges get resolved. The operating system on that computer is very very messed up and I am getting some help with that. I am probably going to do a clean XP Home install on that computer. First I am trying to get SP1 and SP3 installed on it to see how much that helps.

But I am not a serious gamer. I bought that 512Mb video card and a power supply to support it because with my past machines I found that once the RAM was up the max the mobo would support, getting a better video card was the least expensive upgrade that gave a LOT of noticeable improvement in performance.

I do run some circa 2001 helicopter simulations games - Commanche 4, Air Assault, and Commanche Gold. But mostly because I love to fly. Being that old, those programs are not terribly demanding on a computer.

Before those I flew and flew and flew in MS flight simulator - every version from the very first in 1981 or 82 (which was not Microsofts yet and was a black and white screen with the entire world nothing more than a square grid of mesh lines) - from that version all the way to FlightSim2002. At one point I could do instrument-only flights and runway approaches such as to San Francisco with clouds and low fog and go visual only after descending to about 200 feet.

Then I got into helicopters which are a lot more fun to fly. And I admit I enjoy some combat with them too because that forces me to work harder with my flying skills and it is a good challenge for my brain too. But I usually use the infinite ammo cheat and often I use the God cheat too. Some gamer huh?

The other Game-like thing I enjoy a LOT is orbitersim - which is a true-to-life simulation of space flight. There are no enemies or battles, just the challenges of launching into the desired orbit, docking with another thip or the ISS or going to the moon and landing. Things like that. I love orbital mechanics, the conceptual and mathematics of it and also the simulation that allows me to apply what I know. Orbitersim is free and many users have created fancy add-ons because there is a free SDK kit for that. So there are all kinds of space ships from replicas of the original moon landers and Gemini missions, the ISS, the space shuttle, cargo bays, manned space-walk units....

That program does not install anything into the registry and is not very demanding on video cards, though direct X 7 or 8 is needed. It's very well written - by a physicist named Martin Schweiger.

...anyway...

lunchtime!

emosun

Neat sounds like fun. I play battlefield desertcombat which has helicopters in it. Most people can't fly them because there too hard. I got really good at them and later found out on flight simulator that the controls were pretty much the same. One of my friends is a pilot and has flight simulator 2006 or somthing. He told me the helicopters were impossible to fly so he got pretty mad when I did it no problem lol.

I actually have a cheapo powersupply on a secondary rig thats holding up ok. So maybe yours will be fine. Just watch for crashes or bsod's or game artifacts.

Priscilla_Anne

What are "bsod's?"

What is it that you especially like about the Battlefied Desert Game you mentioned? What does it have over other games you have played?

Well I think your pilot friend might be right that real helicopters are harder to fly than what we find in the simulation games. In a real helicopter any increase in the main rotor speed torques the body of the bird the opposite direction as the main rotor is turning. Slowing down the main rotor torques the body the other way. The tail rotor is used to cancel out those torques. NONE of the helicopter sims I have seen require the pilot to do that by hand. The very first helicopter that Microsoft included in flight sim 2000 or 20002, (might not have been theirs even, but someone's add-on) DID require that you manually change the tail rotor speed according to ANY change in main rotor speed. That bird WAS nearly impossible to take off or land. Once up in the air there was a little less problem if you got a little unstable but near the ground that is fatal right away. That is maybe the thing that makes real helicopters so hard to fly because you have to be adjusting the tail rotor speed every time you change the main rotor speed for any reason. And you have to be doing that all the time in addition to anything else you are trying to do, like turn or ascend or descend, or land. I am not sure whether more recent MS flight sim helicopters have provided the option to have the tail rotor automatically adjust for the main engine counter-torque or not but that very first one in MS flight sim required you to handle that tail rotor constantly on your own.

The other thing about the tail rotor has to do with turning. Most simulation games allow you to choose whether or not the tail rotor automatically helps you turn when you twist the joystick to make the body turn. If you choose that option, then when you twist the joystick the bird turns almost as if it was on a track instead of flying through air with all the actual effects of the air. I don't like that kind of flying - it feels too artificial. And even worse, if you choose that option then you cannot strafe. I love to strafe - flying essentially sideways by "leaning" the bird to the side and twist/turning only enough to keep the thing pointed in the same forward direction while you maintain that sideways "drift." That allows you to go around a corner flying sideways, already pointed in the direction of whatever is coming into view around that corner. I love strafe-flying very close to the ground, especially over rolling hills or allowing the bird to gently "drift" sideways down a mountain side while pointing parallel to the mountain range ridge and still moving forward in that direction.

Of the three helicopter games I mentioned Commanche Gold has the most realistic "feel" to it as you fly. Air-Assault is perhaps the least realistic feeling. I think Apache-Havoc flies pretty realitically too but I don't play with that one anymore and it has been a while.

emosun

A bsod is a "blue screen of death". Or an error screen with white text and a blue background that displays errors when there is a hardware realated problem.

I don't play desert combat as much as I used to. But it does have that full helicopter control , where you have to fly it constantly. It doesn't auto level itself out , or auto hover or anything. It does have the option of flying sideways or anyway that a real helo could go. Its fun in the game to fly in circles around and enemy while faceing them and taking them out with the various weapans. Many people use joysticks but I found that using the keyboard was easier for me because I learned on the keyboard.