[SOLVED] All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems.

rede96 · 02-11-2008, 05:02 AM

This problem has me completely stumped! (Which doesn't take much!)

I have a ATI Radeon 2400 HD (8x, 256MB) card that I am trying to install.

The MB is an old Epox 4G4AE with Intel 845G Chipset, on board graphics & sound. The audio drivers are from Realtek, AC'97.

I know the motherboard is only 4x AGP but I just wanted to use this combination of card & motherboard to play around with building a HTPC.
From what I have read the 8x should be backwards compatible and I shouldn't loose that much in performance either. (As it is not for games.)

The problem is that after I install the new card & display driver, XP just hangs during start up.

I have spent 3 days solid trying to figure this out and to cut a long story short, I eventually found that if I disable the Audio driver then I can install the card & software without a problem. However, once the card is installed & working, if I try and enable the audio driver then XP just hangs.

I did eventually figure out a work-around. (Through trial & error!)

I found that if I disable some things in my BIOS, I think it was the Game port and some other multimedia thingy, and applied an ATI driver 'hotfix' I found, then I could at least re-enable the audio driver but only after the system had booted up. If I don't disable the audio driver at shutdown then the next time the system boots I just get a black screen.

I would really like to find the root cause of this problem but if not, a way to automatically disable & then re-enable the audio driver during boot up would do. (As well as automatically disable it at shut down.)

Any help would be much appreciated!

Tumbleweed36 · 02-11-2008, 05:33 AM

Just to make sure you are not missing something here. First of all, get your onboard working fine (and have your new card removed and deleted from the system), then go in to the Display Adapter area of your device manager (Start, control panel, system, hardware, device manager) and DISABLE the onboard by right clicking and selecting that item. Then, shut down and put in your new card, then go to the bios setup menu and select AGP as the selected card....reboot and when it comes up put in your new drivers.

rede96 · 02-11-2008, 05:59 AM

Hi Tumbleweed, thanks for the reply.

Just to cover your points: (from memory as I am at work at the mo.)

1) I start from clean install of existing system. (i.e. all correct MB drivers installed.) On board graphics working fine, XP installed and updated fully etc. Also new card still in box.
2) I don't disable the current onboard graphics driver but I do uninstall it.
3) Shut system down and install new graphics card.
4) Enter BIOS and disable on board VGA, Change VGA aperture (I think that's the name) to 256MB (from 64MB) There is nothing I have noticed in my BIOS to select AGP as my card. The nearest I have found is an option to change the intial display from Onbard/AGP to PCI.

5) re-boot and let XP prompt for new driver & point it to the installation CD.
6) re-boot and then let windows load, at this point XP hangs during start up unless, I swear a lot and go for beer

, go into Safe Mode & disable the audio driver mentioned, re-start and then continue with the installation of the card's software. (ATI Catalyst Centre 8.1)

Do you think that not disabling the on board graphics could be an issue?

Thanks
Red

Tumbleweed36 · 02-11-2008, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rede96

Hi Tumbleweed, thanks for the reply.

Just to cover your points: (from memory as I am at work at the mo.)

1) I start from clean install of existing system. (i.e. all correct MB drivers installed.) On board graphics working fine, XP installed and updated fully etc. Also new card still in box.

O.K., just so nothing is on your computer with the new card, no drivers, etc..

2) I don't disable the current onboard graphics driver but I do uninstall it.

I think you need to disable the graphics card, because if you uninstall it instead of disable it, the thing loads again when you reboot. Therefore, that might be a problem to having it load with your other one in there.

3) Shut system down and install new graphics card.

If you do the above, this would be fine.

4) Enter BIOS and disable on board VGA, Change VGA aperture (I think that's the name) to 256MB (from 64MB) There is nothing I have noticed in my BIOS to select AGP as my card. The nearest I have found is an option to change the intial display from Onbard/AGP to PCI.

Each motherboard is a little different in that area. Just make sure that it has AGP in the selection (first if that is possible, but if not, then leave it as you have it)

5) re-boot and let XP prompt for new driver & point it to the installation CD.

6) re-boot and then let windows load, at this point XP hangs during start up unless, I swear a lot and go for beer

, go into Safe Mode & disable the audio driver mentioned, re-start and then continue with the installation of the card's software. (ATI Catalyst Centre 8.1)

Do you think that not disabling the on board graphics could be an issue?

YES, I do...no guarantees, but that is my opinion. See above explanation

Thanks
Red

rede96 · 02-11-2008, 07:34 AM

Quote:

I think you need to disable the graphics card, because if you uninstall it instead of disable it, the thing loads again when you reboot. Therefore, that might be a problem to having it load with your other one in there.

Do you mean disable and leave the driver installed? Or should I disable and uninstall as well?

Tumbleweed36 · 02-11-2008, 07:47 AM

Try just disabling it as a first thing to try, because if the thing is disabled, the driver part is kind of moot as a point.

However, if that does not work for you, then see if you can find the driver without uninstalling the card, then remove it when you disable the card. Just don't uninstall the onboard video or it simply will load again when you boot up.

rede96 · 02-11-2008, 08:21 AM

Ok, thanks for that. I'll give it a try tonight.

Cheers
Red

rede96 · 02-12-2008, 02:25 AM

I came, I saw, I failed miserably!

I tried disabling the driver but that didn’t work. I also then removed the drivers, without success. I wasn’t sure which driver(s) needed removing, so I looked under driver detail in the device manager and removed all the onboard display drivers that were listed. (I actually removed them and backed them up to another folder, just in case.)

Just some other points of interest:

If I go into the BIOS and disable the Midi Port and the Games Port, I can re-enable the audio drive after start up. If I leave these 2 ports enabled, then my machine hangs when I try and re-enable the audio driver.

Also, I installed a wireless LAN card (PCI) and once that was done my system hung every time I tried to re-enable the audio driver.

Go figure!

I have always managed to resolve similar issues in the past, either through dumb luck or through the help of others. So I am beginning to think this project is doomed!

Maybe it’s time I bought a new motherboard and a different (i.e. NOT an ATI) graphics card.

Tumbleweed36 · 02-12-2008, 01:21 PM

When you first boot up after disabling the onboard and after you have put in the new card, does it work before you put the drivers in?

**oldmn** · 02-12-2008, 03:40 PM

Looking at the manual for this board it only supports 4X AGP and only at 1.5 Volts.
Pg 1-5 in the manual.
Manual link
If you did get it to work it would only work at 4X, from what I have read it compatibility could definitely be an issue.
http://www.directron.com/15agpguide.html#caption

Tumbleweed36 · 02-12-2008, 03:50 PM

I think that is accurate oldmn, but I thought he said the card he was using (didn't look it up since he mentioned that) was 8x, but also backward compatible to 4x .

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st post

From what I have read the 8x should be backwards compatible

However, if that is not the case, it could not work. I will be away for a while for dinner, but if you have time it might be a good idea to check out that card to make sure it is backward compatible to 4x.

**oldmn** · 02-12-2008, 04:24 PM

Looking at your manual again there is a place to disable the ONCHIP VGA in the advanced chipset features this Must be disabled.
Also on the main bios screen the manual shows the video selection but nowhere does it show what they are, This should also be set to AGP if possable.

rede96 · 02-13-2008, 06:34 AM

Sorry for the late reply, I was out all day yesturday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumbleweed36

When you first boot up after disabling the onboard and after you have put in the new card, does it work before you put the drivers in?

In short no, not if the audio driver is enabled. Even if I do a clean install using the card everything works great until I install the Realtek AC'97 driver. This driver also enables some other stuff, which appears in the device driver after installation. (Can't remember exactly but stuff such as video codecs, multimedia & Games stuff.) I can't seem to just be able to enable the sound without all this other junk.

Quote:

I think that is accurate oldmn, but I thought he said the card he was using (didn't look it up since he mentioned that) was 8x, but also backward compatible to 4x .

The card is (or at least it states on the website) both 8x & 4x compatible.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/produ...gpid=185&grp=2

Quote:

Looking at your manual again there is a place to disable the ONCHIP VGA in the advanced chipset features this Must be disabled.

That's right, I do this.

Quote:

Also on the main bios screen the manual shows the video selection but nowhere does it show what they are, This should also be set to AGP if possable.

Also correct, I can't find a way to set VGA to just AGP.

I did also have a reply from the card manufacture, they are saying that it is the MB at fault. However I did use an older GEFroce 4x AGP card with no issues.

Just to recap, where I am at the moment is:
The problem, as far I as I can detect, is just during windows starting. If I disable the audio driver, start windows and then enable the audio driver everything works

I have found this to be fairly consistant, (i.e. whether I enable/disable onboard VGA, what driver version I use, if I disable the onbard VGA in device manager or just unistall it, if I install the card clean or after using the onboard VGA) once everything is installed, as long as I disable the audio driver and then enable it after XP starts up everything work fine. (I think! Not really tested it out fully yet.)

I was even considering writing a small VB app that would stop the audio driver from initializing at start up but decided against it.

rede96 · 02-20-2008, 10:36 AM

Just for info, I finally resolved the problem I was having. It turns out that it is somthing to do with a games port driver my MB automatically installs whenever I do a clean install of chipset / operating system.

All I had to do was disable the games port in my BIOS before I installed the chipset drivers or anything else.

The audio driver must have been linked to it, that's why when I disabled the audio driver, it disabled the problem driver.

Anyway, all is working at last!

Thanks everyone for thier help.

Red

02-11-2008, 05:02 AM	#1 (permalink)
rede96 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 12 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	[SOLVED] All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. This problem has me completely stumped! (Which doesn't take much!) I have a ATI Radeon 2400 HD (8x, 256MB) card that I am trying to install. The MB is an old Epox 4G4AE with Intel 845G Chipset, on board graphics & sound. The audio drivers are from Realtek, AC'97. I know the motherboard is only 4x AGP but I just wanted to use this combination of card & motherboard to play around with building a HTPC. From what I have read the 8x should be backwards compatible and I shouldn't loose that much in performance either. (As it is not for games.) The problem is that after I install the new card & display driver, XP just hangs during start up. I have spent 3 days solid trying to figure this out and to cut a long story short, I eventually found that if I disable the Audio driver then I can install the card & software without a problem. However, once the card is installed & working, if I try and enable the audio driver then XP just hangs. I did eventually figure out a work-around. (Through trial & error!) I found that if I disable some things in my BIOS, I think it was the Game port and some other multimedia thingy, and applied an ATI driver 'hotfix' I found, then I could at least re-enable the audio driver but only after the system had booted up. If I don't disable the audio driver at shutdown then the next time the system boots I just get a black screen. I would really like to find the root cause of this problem but if not, a way to automatically disable & then re-enable the audio driver during boot up would do. (As well as automatically disable it at shut down.) Any help would be much appreciated!

02-11-2008, 05:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 19,669 OS: XP Professional	Re: All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. Just to make sure you are not missing something here. First of all, get your onboard working fine (and have your new card removed and deleted from the system), then go in to the Display Adapter area of your device manager (Start, control panel, system, hardware, device manager) and DISABLE the onboard by right clicking and selecting that item. Then, shut down and put in your new card, then go to the bios setup menu and select AGP as the selected card....reboot and when it comes up put in your new drivers. __________________ ---------- I don't receive email notifications of replies to subscribed threads. (Internet provider policy) Therefore, if I don't respond to your post within 24 hours, please send me a reminder PM and include the link to your thread.

02-11-2008, 05:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
rede96 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 12 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Re: All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. Hi Tumbleweed, thanks for the reply. Just to cover your points: (from memory as I am at work at the mo.) 1) I start from clean install of existing system. (i.e. all correct MB drivers installed.) On board graphics working fine, XP installed and updated fully etc. Also new card still in box. 2) I don't disable the current onboard graphics driver but I do uninstall it. 3) Shut system down and install new graphics card. 4) Enter BIOS and disable on board VGA, Change VGA aperture (I think that's the name) to 256MB (from 64MB) There is nothing I have noticed in my BIOS to select AGP as my card. The nearest I have found is an option to change the intial display from Onbard/AGP to PCI. 5) re-boot and let XP prompt for new driver & point it to the installation CD. 6) re-boot and then let windows load, at this point XP hangs during start up unless, I swear a lot and go for beer , go into Safe Mode & disable the audio driver mentioned, re-start and then continue with the installation of the card's software. (ATI Catalyst Centre 8.1) Do you think that not disabling the on board graphics could be an issue? Thanks Red

02-11-2008, 07:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 19,669 OS: XP Professional	Re: All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. Try just disabling it as a first thing to try, because if the thing is disabled, the driver part is kind of moot as a point. However, if that does not work for you, then see if you can find the driver without uninstalling the card, then remove it when you disable the card. Just don't uninstall the onboard video or it simply will load again when you boot up. __________________ ---------- I don't receive email notifications of replies to subscribed threads. (Internet provider policy) Therefore, if I don't respond to your post within 24 hours, please send me a reminder PM and include the link to your thread.

02-11-2008, 08:21 AM	#7 (permalink)
rede96 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 12 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Re: All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. Ok, thanks for that. I'll give it a try tonight. Cheers Red

02-12-2008, 02:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
rede96 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 12 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Re: All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. I came, I saw, I failed miserably! I tried disabling the driver but that didn’t work. I also then removed the drivers, without success. I wasn’t sure which driver(s) needed removing, so I looked under driver detail in the device manager and removed all the onboard display drivers that were listed. (I actually removed them and backed them up to another folder, just in case.) Just some other points of interest: If I go into the BIOS and disable the Midi Port and the Games Port, I can re-enable the audio drive after start up. If I leave these 2 ports enabled, then my machine hangs when I try and re-enable the audio driver. Also, I installed a wireless LAN card (PCI) and once that was done my system hung every time I tried to re-enable the audio driver. Go figure! I have always managed to resolve similar issues in the past, either through dumb luck or through the help of others. So I am beginning to think this project is doomed! Maybe it’s time I bought a new motherboard and a different (i.e. NOT an ATI) graphics card.

02-12-2008, 01:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 19,669 OS: XP Professional	Re: All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. When you first boot up after disabling the onboard and after you have put in the new card, does it work before you put the drivers in? __________________ ---------- I don't receive email notifications of replies to subscribed threads. (Internet provider policy) Therefore, if I don't respond to your post within 24 hours, please send me a reminder PM and include the link to your thread.

02-12-2008, 03:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
oldmn TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gig Harbor Wa Posts: 2,150 OS: XP Pro SP3 X 3 My System	Re: All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. Looking at the manual for this board it only supports 4X AGP and only at 1.5 Volts. Pg 1-5 in the manual. Manual link If you did get it to work it would only work at 4X, from what I have read it compatibility could definitely be an issue. http://www.directron.com/15agpguide.html#caption __________________ AVG \| MEMTEST86 \| Zone Alarm \| XXCLONE \| Adaware \| Beyond Compare \| Everest If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! Sorry no PM's for problems.[/center] Last edited by oldmn; 02-12-2008 at 04:05 PM.

02-12-2008, 04:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
oldmn TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gig Harbor Wa Posts: 2,150 OS: XP Pro SP3 X 3 My System	Re: All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. Looking at your manual again there is a place to disable the ONCHIP VGA in the advanced chipset features this Must be disabled. Also on the main bios screen the manual shows the video selection but nowhere does it show what they are, This should also be set to AGP if possable. __________________ AVG \| MEMTEST86 \| Zone Alarm \| XXCLONE \| Adaware \| Beyond Compare \| Everest If TSF has helped you, Tell us about it! or Donate to help keep the site up! Sorry no PM's for problems.[/center]

02-20-2008, 10:36 AM	#14 (permalink)
rede96 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 12 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Re: All out of ideas - AGP card installation problems. Just for info, I finally resolved the problem I was having. It turns out that it is somthing to do with a games port driver my MB automatically installs whenever I do a clean install of chipset / operating system. All I had to do was disable the games port in my BIOS before I installed the chipset drivers or anything else. The audio driver must have been linked to it, that's why when I disabled the audio driver, it disabled the problem driver. Anyway, all is working at last! Thanks everyone for thier help. Red