System Crash/Hangs When Playing any game

sirquacksalot · 09-02-2006, 01:26 PM

Hey all.

First off, my specs:

Mobo: 939Dual-SataII
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (NOT Oced)
RAM: 1024Mb PC3200 200Mhz (3 - 4 - 4 - 8)
HDD: 40Gb ATA133 Samsung
DVD/CD RW: LG GSA-4163B
Vid Card: ATI Radeon x700 Pro (Not Oced) AGP 256Mb
OS: WinXP SP2 Home Edition
PSU: RetailPlus+ 465W
Now my problem:

Everything seems to work fine, except when I'm playing any kind of 3d intensive game, after 2-5 minutes the system hangs. Every now and then it will gather itself together and continue, but more often than not it will result in a system hang, the monitor will turn off and the computer needs to be reset. The Mobo, CPU, RAM, Vid Card and PSU are all new and the problem has continued across this major system change. WinXP has been reinstalled with a HDD wipe as well, but still it continues. I don't know why. Please help me!

Games this has happened on:

Elder Scrolls Oblivion
Counter Strike: Source
Half Life: 2
Halo
F.E.A.R
SWAT 4

Another (possibly related?) problem is that when my computer comes out of Screen Saver mode, the 'Turn off Computer' window appears once or twice. I have NO idea why this is, and it has only happened since the system wipe. Any ideas on how to fix that?

**UncleMacro** · 09-02-2006, 04:09 PM

Dying after a few minutes in a game is usually a sign of overheating but there are other possibilities. I'd check to make sure the video card fan is spinning. Then try running the machine with the case open and aim a desk fan at the video card to cool it down. If it runs longer before crashing then you've got an overheating problem.

Assuming you've already installed the latest chipset drivers and video drivers, the next thing I'd do is use SMARTGART to slow your AGP speed down to 4X and disable fast writes (instructions here). It's easy to do and assures that AGP instability isn't causing your problem. That can cause all kinds of symptoms so it's best to slow down AGP to eliminate the possibility.

sirquacksalot · 09-03-2006, 10:52 AM

How hot should my vid card be when its running under stress. I've been using ATI tray tools for awhile as a temperature monitor, and it seems like the hottest its gotten is around 60-70 degrees C. It idles around 42.

**jnob** · 09-03-2006, 02:01 PM

Those video card temps aren't too bad, could be better but shouldn't be crashing your system). I would suggest downloading a program like everest or speedfan so you can monitor your cpu/motherboard temps and your voltage lines. Make sure your PSU you can hang with your system.

What kind of case cooling do you have? Hopefully at the minimum 2x80mm or 1x120mm exhaust in the back of the case and 2x80 or1x120mm intake. on the side or front of the case.

sirquacksalot · 09-03-2006, 02:48 PM

I've got speedfan running, clocking my temps at:

CPU: 40 Degrees Idle, 50 Stressed
System: Holds between 35-40 Degrees
PSU: 37-45

For case cooling I've got two 80mm case fans, both exahusts one on top of the case and one at the back. I'd put a third in the front of the case, but theres no mounting for one, nor an intake vent. The PSU is a dual fan system, and I've got a PCI-slot dual fan right below my vid card. One exahust and one intake, aimed in different directions. The CPU heatsink fan is covered by an intake tube on the left side of the case, which keeps the air in there relatively cool at room temperature.

I'm fairly sure that temperature isn't the problem. I've used SMARTGART to turn off Fastwrite, and kept it at 8xAGP. So far from the brief test it seems to work okay, but I still have to test it more extensively to say that its definitely helped or not.

sirquacksalot · 09-03-2006, 03:58 PM

Nope, my system just crashed with Fastwrite turned off and 4xAGP running. Temps were within norms as well. :-(

Could it be something software related? What about IRQ conflicts? I've heard that those could be the cause, but I don't know how to check.

**UncleMacro** · 09-03-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

What about IRQ conflicts?

Years ago that used to be a real problem but everything has shared IRQs just fine for years. People with long memories just tend to drag that explanation out from time to time because Windows quite often shares IRQs when it doesn't have to. I can't remember the last time that actually turned out to be the problem.

If the problem only happens in 3D games then the only software you'd really have to consider is the chipset drivers and the display drivers. If you installed good ones after your clean install then you've already done what you can in that department.

You could try some serious underclocking using ATITool (instructions here). If you have a weak chip then reducing the clock rate can often make it work properly. If underclocking works then you've got bad hardware.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what else you can try short of swapping parts with another computer to see which hardware the problem goes with (assuming it's hardware). I'd assume it's the video card but it could also be the power supply or other things. I do have a generic list of things to try with what appears to be a video card problem on this page. Hanging is just not a very good symptom for pointing out the problem. Just about anything can cause crashes or hangs. In that situation I just try everything I can think of and cross my fingers.

**Cellus** · 09-03-2006, 10:08 PM

In regards to the system specs you listed above, is this an authentic made-by ATi card or OEM-manufactured (eVGA, BFG, XFX, Asus, etc). There are some OEMs who make somewhat sub-standard cards.

EDIT: I should note that an authentic made-by ATi card is not necessary a high quality card. I'm saying this because I personally purchased an authentic ATi Radeon X1300 Pro that turned out to be partially defunct. Asus and BFG are two examples of OEMs who make fairly good quality cards.

sirquacksalot · 09-03-2006, 11:03 PM

It is an authentic ATI card, bought from futureshop. I returned one card already due to this problem, and got a replacement the same day, but both cards cause the same problem, so I'm figuring that it cannot be the card.

At this time, I think the only hardware that hasn't be replaced or upgraded is the hard drive, so could that be causing a problem like this?

[EDIT]

Actually, the sound card hasn't been replaced in some time, and has been carried over for almost three computers. Its a PCI soundblaster Live! card. Probably about 4-5 years old now. It seems to function okay, but maybe that could be causing the issue...

**UncleMacro** · 09-04-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

At this time, I think the only hardware that hasn't be replaced or upgraded is the hard drive, so could that be causing a problem like this?

Nope. Changing disk controllers could possibly make a difference but not the drive that's plugged into it.

Quote:

Actually, the sound card hasn't been replaced in some time, and has been carried over for almost three computers. Its a PCI soundblaster Live! card. Probably about 4-5 years old now. It seems to function okay, but maybe that could be causing the issue...

You should always disable the sound card when you're having game crash/hang problems just in case. SBLives in particular have a bad reputation when it comes to Windows XP. Just disable it in the device manager to find out for sure.

Unexplained and seemingly unfixable crash/hangs like you're getting are often caused by incompatibilities between motherboards and the video cards. You can see examples of it in NVIDIAs driver notes in their list of fixes but it happens for ATI too. The fix usually includes running some hardware at safer/slower settings in some low-level driver. That's why you should get the latest display driver and chipset driver to be sure that you have all the fixes. But if you have a combination that they haven't noticed or fixed then you're screwed. Sometimes they can be fixed with some obscure BIOS adjustment but there's no real way to know which one to adjust (if one exists) and how to adjust it and there's a zillion of those to try in an overclocker BIOS and none to try in a "civilian" BIOS. You can rarely figure out that kind of fix on your own. Realistically, only the video card or motherboard maker is in a position to find the cause and fix it. The only solution is to run a different combination of components. Sticking with common combinations that other people are using is a good way to avoid "unfixable" problems. Trying the video card in another system and having it work and then trying a different kind of video card in your motherboard and having it work is a suggestion that you may have one of these unstable combinations.

sirquacksalot · 09-10-2006, 10:47 PM

Okay, i've taken the soundcard out entirely, and it is not the issue. I don't think that it is a compatibility error between the card and my Mobo, because its almost an entirely different system and the problem has existed over two mobos, two cpus, two sticks of RAM, two vid cards themselves, and two PSU's.

I've opened a ticket with ATI, but seeing as its been two cards and two systems, and two installs of windows.... i don't know what else to try here.

**UncleMacro** · 09-11-2006, 02:55 PM

Quote:

the problem has existed over two mobos, two cpus, two sticks of RAM, two vid cards themselves, and two PSU's

When you say two mobos and two vid cards, are we talking about two different motherboard models or two copies of the same motherboard model? And likewise for the video card. If you've had this problem across different video card and motherboard models then I have no idea what the problem could be (except you've had very bad luck with power supplies). If you've just tried two copies of the ASRock 939Dual with two X700s then you could still be looking at an unfixed compatibility problem. I've seen seemingly unfixable problems which in the end were fixed (actually more of a dodge than a fix) by switching to as different a motherboard as possible. As in a different motherboard maker using a completely different chipset. The motherboard you've got uses the only AGP/PCI-Express chipset out there which works properly so switching would mean going either just AGP or just PCI-Express and not both (which you may not want to do).

If all you've tried is multiple copies of the same hardware models then I'd make a motherboard switch to a different model. If you've had this problem across different models then I'm not sure what's causing it. If the latter case then you might have some seemingly innocuous piece of hardware (modem, flash card reader, etc.) which is causing the problem but with the monitor turning off sometimes it's hard to blame anything other than the motherboard, video card, or PSU.

sirquacksalot · 09-11-2006, 04:06 PM

No, the origional system was a MK40v Shuttle Mobo with a different hardware of the ATI x700 Pro AGP. The only things that have remained the same over both have been the HDD and DVD-Rom, which I doubt are the problems.

Unfortunately, I don't have a different system to switch parts into and out of, so i'm stuck with what i've got.

**UncleMacro** · 09-11-2006, 07:12 PM

Well, I'm stumped.

So basically you had an older Athlon XP system running the original X700 and then decided to upgrade to an Athlon 64 and keep the AGP video card but also have a PCI-Express x16 for the future...

You've had an X700 Pro fail with two completely different kinds of motherboards in the same way... And you've already tried two different X700s to make sure it wasn't a bad video card and tried multiple PSUs. I wish I had an answer for you but I don't. Given that you've been running various X700s, trying a completely different video card (presumably PCI-Express) would be the next thing I'd try. It's a little shifty but, around here, you can buy video cards from some retail outlets which allow returns with no restocking fee. I'd "try out" a PCI-Express card (I'd go with NVIDIA to make it as different as possible) to see what happens. Or, if you know someone with a PCI-Express machine, you could borrow their video card to see what happens. You've already replaced so many components that I'd try to get away from that X700.

The only other things I can think to try before trying out another video card is to run the easy tests: RAM test, and a CPU test just to make sure you haven't missed any of the easy problems to diagnose. Then I'd remove every possible piece of hardware from your computer except those required to run a game and see if it still cracks up. If it still cracks up then you don't have much choice but go back to swapping in other hardware. Sorry.

**jnob** · 09-12-2006, 04:03 PM

I suspect the PSU in each system. How many amps are available on the 12V rail of your current PSU? Was it heavy? I'd like to see a high quality name brand (enermax, antec, FSP) 500+Watt PSU with at least 26A or dual 12V rails with at least 16A each. This post is good reading before deciding on a new PSU...

sirquacksalot · 10-02-2006, 08:25 AM

I just checked the PSU, and its got 26A on the 12V+ rail.

sirquacksalot · 10-02-2006, 11:08 AM

I returned the X700 pro to futureshop and asked the girl if, since I'd had problems with two x700's, i could get a different model at a similar price and perhaps pay the difference. So, I've put an ATI x1300 pro pci-e (actually a far better card than I had in the first place in terms of performance) and that seems to have solved the problem. I still don't know if it was the card itself, or simply the AGP slot giving me issues. Anyway, thanks for all the help guys.

09-02-2006, 01:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
sirquacksalot Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 29 OS: Vista Buisness 32-Bit	System Crash/Hangs When Playing any game Hey all. First off, my specs: Mobo: 939Dual-SataII CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (NOT Oced) RAM: 1024Mb PC3200 200Mhz (3 - 4 - 4 - 8) HDD: 40Gb ATA133 Samsung DVD/CD RW: LG GSA-4163B Vid Card: ATI Radeon x700 Pro (Not Oced) AGP 256Mb OS: WinXP SP2 Home Edition PSU: RetailPlus+ 465W Now my problem: Everything seems to work fine, except when I'm playing any kind of 3d intensive game, after 2-5 minutes the system hangs. Every now and then it will gather itself together and continue, but more often than not it will result in a system hang, the monitor will turn off and the computer needs to be reset. The Mobo, CPU, RAM, Vid Card and PSU are all new and the problem has continued across this major system change. WinXP has been reinstalled with a HDD wipe as well, but still it continues. I don't know why. Please help me! Games this has happened on: Elder Scrolls Oblivion Counter Strike: Source Half Life: 2 Halo F.E.A.R SWAT 4 Another (possibly related?) problem is that when my computer comes out of Screen Saver mode, the 'Turn off Computer' window appears once or twice. I have NO idea why this is, and it has only happened since the system wipe. Any ideas on how to fix that? Last edited by sirquacksalot; 09-02-2006 at 01:36 PM.

09-03-2006, 02:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
jnob TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Valley Posts: 692 OS: XP Pro, SP2 My System	Those video card temps aren't too bad, could be better but shouldn't be crashing your system). I would suggest downloading a program like everest or speedfan so you can monitor your cpu/motherboard temps and your voltage lines. Make sure your PSU you can hang with your system. What kind of case cooling do you have? Hopefully at the minimum 2x80mm or 1x120mm exhaust in the back of the case and 2x80 or1x120mm intake. on the side or front of the case. __________________ Everest Memtest86

09-03-2006, 10:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cellus Moderator Networking Team Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,664 OS: Windows Vista Business SP1, Windows XP Professional SP3 My System	In regards to the system specs you listed above, is this an authentic made-by ATi card or OEM-manufactured (eVGA, BFG, XFX, Asus, etc). There are some OEMs who make somewhat sub-standard cards. EDIT: I should note that an authentic made-by ATi card is not necessary a high quality card. I'm saying this because I personally purchased an authentic ATi Radeon X1300 Pro that turned out to be partially defunct. Asus and BFG are two examples of OEMs who make fairly good quality cards. __________________ TSF Networking Team Virus/Trojan/Spyware Removal Help Donate! Last edited by Cellus; 09-03-2006 at 10:11 PM.

09-03-2006, 11:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
sirquacksalot Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 29 OS: Vista Buisness 32-Bit	It is an authentic ATI card, bought from futureshop. I returned one card already due to this problem, and got a replacement the same day, but both cards cause the same problem, so I'm figuring that it cannot be the card. At this time, I think the only hardware that hasn't be replaced or upgraded is the hard drive, so could that be causing a problem like this? [EDIT] Actually, the sound card hasn't been replaced in some time, and has been carried over for almost three computers. Its a PCI soundblaster Live! card. Probably about 4-5 years old now. It seems to function okay, but maybe that could be causing the issue... Last edited by sirquacksalot; 09-03-2006 at 11:07 PM.

09-12-2006, 04:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
jnob TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Valley Posts: 692 OS: XP Pro, SP2 My System	I suspect the PSU in each system. How many amps are available on the 12V rail of your current PSU? Was it heavy? I'd like to see a high quality name brand (enermax, antec, FSP) 500+Watt PSU with at least 26A or dual 12V rails with at least 16A each. This post is good reading before deciding on a new PSU... __________________ Everest Memtest86

09-02-2006, 04:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
UncleMacro TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,133 OS: Vista SP1 My System	Dying after a few minutes in a game is usually a sign of overheating but there are other possibilities. I'd check to make sure the video card fan is spinning. Then try running the machine with the case open and aim a desk fan at the video card to cool it down. If it runs longer before crashing then you've got an overheating problem. Assuming you've already installed the latest chipset drivers and video drivers, the next thing I'd do is use SMARTGART to slow your AGP speed down to 4X and disable fast writes (instructions here). It's easy to do and assures that AGP instability isn't causing your problem. That can cause all kinds of symptoms so it's best to slow down AGP to eliminate the possibility.

09-03-2006, 10:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
sirquacksalot Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 29 OS: Vista Buisness 32-Bit	How hot should my vid card be when its running under stress. I've been using ATI tray tools for awhile as a temperature monitor, and it seems like the hottest its gotten is around 60-70 degrees C. It idles around 42.

09-03-2006, 02:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
sirquacksalot Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 29 OS: Vista Buisness 32-Bit	I've got speedfan running, clocking my temps at: CPU: 40 Degrees Idle, 50 Stressed System: Holds between 35-40 Degrees PSU: 37-45 For case cooling I've got two 80mm case fans, both exahusts one on top of the case and one at the back. I'd put a third in the front of the case, but theres no mounting for one, nor an intake vent. The PSU is a dual fan system, and I've got a PCI-slot dual fan right below my vid card. One exahust and one intake, aimed in different directions. The CPU heatsink fan is covered by an intake tube on the left side of the case, which keeps the air in there relatively cool at room temperature. I'm fairly sure that temperature isn't the problem. I've used SMARTGART to turn off Fastwrite, and kept it at 8xAGP. So far from the brief test it seems to work okay, but I still have to test it more extensively to say that its definitely helped or not.

09-03-2006, 03:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
sirquacksalot Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 29 OS: Vista Buisness 32-Bit	Nope, my system just crashed with Fastwrite turned off and 4xAGP running. Temps were within norms as well. :-( Could it be something software related? What about IRQ conflicts? I've heard that those could be the cause, but I don't know how to check.

09-10-2006, 10:47 PM	#11 (permalink)
sirquacksalot Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 29 OS: Vista Buisness 32-Bit	Okay, i've taken the soundcard out entirely, and it is not the issue. I don't think that it is a compatibility error between the card and my Mobo, because its almost an entirely different system and the problem has existed over two mobos, two cpus, two sticks of RAM, two vid cards themselves, and two PSU's. I've opened a ticket with ATI, but seeing as its been two cards and two systems, and two installs of windows.... i don't know what else to try here.

09-11-2006, 04:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
sirquacksalot Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 29 OS: Vista Buisness 32-Bit	No, the origional system was a MK40v Shuttle Mobo with a different hardware of the ATI x700 Pro AGP. The only things that have remained the same over both have been the HDD and DVD-Rom, which I doubt are the problems. Unfortunately, I don't have a different system to switch parts into and out of, so i'm stuck with what i've got.

09-11-2006, 07:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
UncleMacro TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,133 OS: Vista SP1 My System	Well, I'm stumped. So basically you had an older Athlon XP system running the original X700 and then decided to upgrade to an Athlon 64 and keep the AGP video card but also have a PCI-Express x16 for the future... You've had an X700 Pro fail with two completely different kinds of motherboards in the same way... And you've already tried two different X700s to make sure it wasn't a bad video card and tried multiple PSUs. I wish I had an answer for you but I don't. Given that you've been running various X700s, trying a completely different video card (presumably PCI-Express) would be the next thing I'd try. It's a little shifty but, around here, you can buy video cards from some retail outlets which allow returns with no restocking fee. I'd "try out" a PCI-Express card (I'd go with NVIDIA to make it as different as possible) to see what happens. Or, if you know someone with a PCI-Express machine, you could borrow their video card to see what happens. You've already replaced so many components that I'd try to get away from that X700. The only other things I can think to try before trying out another video card is to run the easy tests: RAM test, and a CPU test just to make sure you haven't missed any of the easy problems to diagnose. Then I'd remove every possible piece of hardware from your computer except those required to run a game and see if it still cracks up. If it still cracks up then you don't have much choice but go back to swapping in other hardware. Sorry.

10-02-2006, 08:25 AM	#16 (permalink)
sirquacksalot Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 29 OS: Vista Buisness 32-Bit	I just checked the PSU, and its got 26A on the 12V+ rail.

10-02-2006, 11:08 AM	#17 (permalink)
sirquacksalot Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 29 OS: Vista Buisness 32-Bit	I returned the X700 pro to futureshop and asked the girl if, since I'd had problems with two x700's, i could get a different model at a similar price and perhaps pay the difference. So, I've put an ATI x1300 pro pci-e (actually a far better card than I had in the first place in terms of performance) and that seems to have solved the problem. I still don't know if it was the card itself, or simply the AGP slot giving me issues. Anyway, thanks for all the help guys.