Arcc4

First, let me start off by saying that this all started the day after I moved to my new place. Prior my computer had been working fine with no serious problems. So I'm 99% sure this is a hardware issue.

Now for the confusing part. The abrupt power loss, freezing, etc... are not random and they don't simply occur because my computer is under load. In fact I can leave WoW on for hours with no problems. The problem arises when under certain conditions. Some of them being browsing with windows explorer with viewable thumbnails, opening saved pictures, using any internet browser and opening web pages with pop-ups or interactive elements, the WoW launcher, trying to open control panel, when trying to run chkdsk on restart, trying to install SP3, and more. When it does lose power or when I have to force restart it will reach the XP title screen and load bar then freeze and go dim forcing a second restart, which usually works.

I've checked my BIOS and all my temps and voltages read fine. I've reseated my RAM, reseated my video card, removed and cleaned my cooling kit for my processor plus made sure there was enough thermal gel, and just in general checked all the connections.

The only thing that seems to be abnormal is that my PSU fan is not ever on. I don't know how to test the internal temp, but I know that the hotter it runs the less efficient it gets and the Watts drop. However, I am doubting that over heating is the issue because the problem occurs whether my computer has been on for hours or if its been off for hours and I just started it.

I have had crashes to blue screen indicating hardware failure and when freezes occur the HD simply stops spinning. Still its extremely rare for a HD to suddenly go bad simply during a move when it wasn't on.

My best guess is that it is the HD failing or something in my computer is perhaps momentarily losing power, but I just don't know. If anyone could tell me why simply viewing pictures or opening a website can cause an abrupt power loss, but playing WoW doesn't I'd be grateful.

wrench97

The PSU fan would make me suspicious of the Power Supply, The hard drive can be tested using the manufacturers testing utility or if you don't know the brand try Seatools for Dos it will check most drives> http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/sup...oads/seatools/

Arcc4

Yeah the PSU is definitely a suspect, but like I said the problem occurs whether my computer has been running for hours or on a cold startup. Also, the fact that gaming doesn't seem to cause a problem, but loading a game, loading a web page, or just in general read/write processes do cause the problem I'm leaning to it being related to the HD whether its failing or losing power for some reason.

I've been putting off upgrading my computer so I decided to start getting proactive. I bought a new HD so I'll unplug the old one and install windows on the new and see if I continue to have the problem.

If it does continues then I'll probably be focusing on the PSU next. I need advice as to whether its worth trying to salvage it or just replace it. I know working on PSUs can be dangerous.

wrench97

The hard drive spinning up causes a current draw, Have you tried using a sensor reading program like sensorview pro to monitor the voltages while running?> http://www.stvsoft.com/index.php?opt...d=17&Itemid=33

Arcc4

I have speedfan, but I'm not sure how to get it to report ranges like it does with temps if it even does.

I'm not at home atm so I can't recall the PSU brand or model, but it is a 650w PSU. I remember thinking a 500w was cutting it close with 3+ fans and extra PnP stuff like high end keyboards, headphones, mics, etc... so I got the 650w.

So I guess it is possible that maybe with the fan not on its running inefficient enough that under certain conditions where the CPU, HD, Video card, etc... all are drawing more current its holding up.

My question would be when the PSU can't supply the AMPS what usually happens?

Tyree

What brand is the 650W PSU?

Arcc4

Replacing the HD was a no go. After formatting and going through Windows setup questions and validation it would lose power once it started writing the registry and installing files.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171014

That is my PSU. I have gone ahead and unplugged all unnecessary equipment like my optical drive, floppy, new HD, etc...to see if its really just getting overloaded. In the newegg reviews and other places lots of people were having trouble with the fan, but the issue seems beyond that because power loss can occur even from a cold start up after being off for hours.

I'm going to run the sensory utility wrench suggested.

wrench97

650w with only 2 18 amp 12v rails for 36 amps that's a little weak for a 650w to start with, the Corsair 650w has a single 52 amp 12v rail.
If the heat sink in the PSU is getting too hot it will start fluctuating or outputting what is known as dirty power which can cause a lot of random issues.

Arcc4

I don't think the sensory view is working correctly. Its reading my VCoreA and B at 2.04V my +3.3V at 6.08 the +5VSB at 6.08 and the VBAT at 4.05. Its not giving any info for the +5V or +12V and its not reading my fan RPMs. I don't think I can trust it.

Either way I'm going to move forward and assume its the PSU. Since I've already bought a new HD might as well start upgrading other components as well. What would be a good PSU for running 2xHDs, a Nvidia 9 series or better video card, and all the high end PnP stuff (mouse, keyboard, etc..)?

Maybe the Corsair 850W?

wrench97

Yea those readings are not right.
The 850TX would be enough to run a GTX280-295
The 650TX will run a 9800GT And the 750TX the GTX260-280.

Arcc4

Its between the 850TX and the 850HX for me at this point. My friend is going to sell me his CPU, Mobo, and RAM, which is all a step up or two from my current rig. I'll upgrade my vid card when I get a nicer monitor. I just don't want to have to worry about upgrading the PSU again for quite a while.

Plus the HX is modular and I already had problems with the new HDs position in the cage being dictated by extra wires next to the video card.

wrench97

Either are very good PSU's.

Arcc4

Sigh... the Corsair 850HX didn't solve the problem. Also, I want to note that I absolutely can not access control panel without losing power unless I do so in safe mode. Yet, I highly doubt this is just a case of corrupt windows or virus because issue occurs when I trying install XP on a completely different HD from the CD with the other drive disconnected.

I don't think its the RAM otherwise how could it operate a game successfully, but not web pages. Same goes for the processor and vid card.

I just don't know where to go from here.

wrench97

What Temps are you seeing in the Bios for the CPU and chip set?

Arcc4

They are in the low 40s normally, and below 40 when I have a fan blowing into my open case.

The only original connections in my comp are the 5v line that splits to power my fans, lights, and side USBs and the line that runs from the mobo to the startup and reset buttons on the front of the case.

Now I'm curious about one thing. I have set my BIOS, boot options, and windows to not restart my computer on system or power failure, but it still restarts. This is similar to how my reset button works on my computer as it powers down and then immediately restarts. I'm wondering if I shouldn't unhook the the little switch box to ensure its not something stupid like that or does it need to be connected?

wrench97

Good Idea to unhook the reset switch. It might be wise to also to the same with the power button if the reset turns out ok(hook the reset to the power).

Arcc4

It doesn't appear to be a problem with either of the buttons.

For curiousity sake I decided to try and run Spy Bot even though I know this isn't a malware or virus issue. I wanted to see at what part of the process it would lose power. This time I got a machine_check_exception 9C, which is only telling me what I already know.

However, I decided to start up in safe mode and tried running Spy Bot again and this time it had no problems. I tried opening up control panel and again no problems. So this made me think, "O.K. maybe this is corrupted drivers or something."

I decided to test my vid card using control panel as the test. I uninstalled the old drivers and then installed the newest ones. I then went into safe mode and opened control panel successfully. Next I booted into VGA mode and opened control panel successfully. Then, I booted into normal startup and opened control panel causing my computer to lose power. Finally, I booted into normal startup with the lowest graphic settings and opened control panel, which still caused my computer to lose power.

So I have confirmed that the problem does occur when the card is using drivers, but not without. However, I'm not sure if this is directly related to drivers or if its simply the fact that without drivers some part of my hardware that is causing the problem is not being utilitized. Even in VGA mode Spy Bot could still cause a power loss. Also, the fact that a few times when my computer has lost power it can lose power immediately again and/or never get past loading windows, which is a huge hint that this is primarily a hardware issue.

I think next I'll try checking my CPU and reseating it. What is a good way to ground myself when I don't have any ESD stuff?

wrench97

Ground your self by touching a metal part of the case, then you and the pc will have the same charge.

Check the capacitors on the motherboard and the ones you can see on the video card for any signs of leakage, domed or swollen tops.> http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=5

Arcc4

Sigh... capacitor plague verified. All my OST 4v 680µF caps, which reside under my CPU fan, are bulging or blown. Just google OST caps and the first thing you get is badcaps forums talking about how they are crap and particularly nasty because they blow from the bottom, which mine did, thus hard to detect.

Totally missed it the first time because it never occured to me while I was cleaning and reseating the CPU fan and heatsink.

Now the question is to recap it or trash it. I can already foresee that it will be troublesome to find caps with the right specs and the right size to fix under my cpu fan and heatsink.


Anyway, thank you for all your help.

wrench97

What brand and model board do you have?
I think I would replace rather then recap.