Possible power supply problem.

oweezy9 · 12-04-2007, 01:26 AM

I have been having problems with my computer lately, involving frequent crashing at the most random times.

From what I have been able to conclude from extensive internet and forum searching is that there are several possible culprits:

Thermal Problems
Insufficient Power Supply
RAM Failure
MB Failure (least likely from what I can tell)

The only problem I am having is the frequent crashing. When I am playing a game or doing what I do on my computer, I don't have any problems with programs acting up or running slow whatsoever. In the past two weeks, the crashing has become a daily part of my computing experience.

The first thing I checked was the RAM. I downloaded a few programs (including memtest86, everest, and prime95) and ran them according to available instruction. None of these tests revealed any immediate problems. When my computer freezes, it will freeze during boot-up (at the motherboard logo screen before vista), it will also freeze after being restarted (from a freeze) before or during the safe-mode selection screen. THIS leads me to believe that it isn't a virus causing these problems and it is most likely some sort of hardware problem.

I tried removing a stick of ram at a time (of 2x1gb ddr2 sticks) and both would cause the computer to boot up (aside from the random freeze attacks).

Now I have leaned to the possibility of having an inadequate Power Supply Unit and a Thermal problem

Quick Specs include:

ASUS m2n-sli deluxe MB
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ processor
2x1gb Corsair DDR2-6400 XMS2 memory sticks
evga nvidia geforce 7950GT 512MB
std case PSU 500w Aspire
no entry fan (I know, I'm ordering one... I didn't know)
2x80mm exit fans, one rear, one top (Not including 80mm PSU exit fan, and the heat sink fan from the cpu)
2 DVD-R/RW drives

I'm going to need advice in two main categories that I know of:

1. In researching PSU's I'm looking at the difference in the +12v rails (2, 3+) and don't really know how to choose or if they would be any more difficult to install (I would simply go... oh this plug goes here, hrm... and this one goes here). Would the PSU install be that simple? Please offer some insight

2. What can I do to decrease what thermal problems I may be having?
-I'm ordering a fan that installs in the front of the case to suck air in (where should I plug it in?)
-Also ordering a corsair RAM fan (plug that in where?)
-Also ordering a pci slot fan for under the video card.

Anyway, if you see any errors in my logic or have suggestions, please do.

Tumbleweed36 · 12-04-2007, 04:34 AM

Download and run one of these two free programs and tell us the temps and the voltages. Please check temps when the computer is at-rest and while under-stress like playing a game. Also, please know the Aspire is NOT a quality power supply.

SensorviewPro

Speedfan

oweezy9 · 12-04-2007, 12:04 PM

After downloading and installing SensorView, these are the results I got.

IDLE:

Temps:

CPU: 38/101
SYS 44/112
Aux 37/99

Usages:

CPU 4-20%
Memory 36%
HDD 0%
NIC 0-1%

Fans:

CPU: 3516 RPM
SUS: 0
Aux: 0

Voltages:

VCoreA: 1.26v
VCoreB: 3.36v
+3.3v: 0v
+5v: 4.76v
+12v: 11.8v
+5VSB: 4.70v
+VBAT: 2.94v

Using Prime95 (with a 50mb setting) Heavy Load for 20 minutes:

Temps:

CPU: 54/130
SYS: 60/140
AUX: 42/108

Usages:

CPU - 54%
Memory - 96%
HDD- 0-50%
NIC - 1%

Fans:

CPU: 3480 RPM
SUS/AUX: 0

Voltages:

VCoreA: 1.25v
VCoreB: 3.36v
+3.3v: 0v
+5v: 4.73v
+12v: 11.60v
+5VSB: 4.70v
+VBAT: 2.94v

After using Everest, and some other programs, the highest temperature ever sensed was sitting at 45degC. Now that Sensors View has come into play, I can see that there is a bad problem.

I am for sure going to purchase a PSU that is SLI capable for the components I listed in my first post, but I will need some assistance on a few topics relating, that I will list in questions below:

1. For a power supply to support the components above (**added two xms2 1gb corsair sticks of ddr2 memory for a total of four), what wattage should I get?
1b. I read the power supply sticky thread, and it mentions dual rail breifly, but the question I am having is whether they would be pretty straightforward to install the plugs the same as a single rail, or would I have to plug things in differently? (also would this be explained in the instructions with the PSU?)
1c. Some PSU's come with 1 single 140mm fan, and some have dual 80mm fans. The PSU I have now uses the dual 80mm fan setup pulling air in from the case, and exhausting it out of the case. If I went with the 140mm fan driven PSU, I'm guessing I would need to rearrange my ventilation, correct?
--which leads me to my next question.

2. Rearranging my Fans.
-As of now, I have some bad problems obviously after running the sensors view program. Let me give you a basic outline of what I have going.
For pulling air in, All I have is the cpu heatsink fan that pulls in from a chamber mounted from the removable side of my case. This can't be right.
-In the front of my case, I saw that there is room for 2 80mm fans, but that is the only spot I can see for pulling air in besides the cpu fan.

-As for removing air, I have an 80mm in the rear, and an 80mm on top of the case, along with the 80mm fan exhausting hot air from the PSU. So a total of 3 fans.

Old fan setup:
no front fans
cpu fan pulling air from side
2x80mm fans exhausting (1 rear, one top)
PSU has 2x80mm fan setup exhausting in rear.

New plans (subject to approval):
2x80mm fans in front of case
cpu fan from side
1x80mm exhaust on top
1x140mm exhaust in rear
PCI slot under video card exhausting
PSU with 140mm fan dumping hot air in the case.
*corsair triple ram fan blowing away from ram
does this sound good?

***disclaimer, when I built this computer I had no idea about cooling or how it should be done, nor power supplies, or anything else for that matter. I am slowly picking up alot of information, now that I am having problems. I have probably read up on things from ram, to power supplies, and a little on fans over the past three days.

Tumbleweed36 · 12-04-2007, 01:11 PM

It seems to me that your voltages are pretty darn low on the +5 and the +12 rails. The +12 is within range, but very low at that which could explain some of your problems. I just think your power supply is not cutting it and that may even explain some of your temps which are within range, but slightly higher for this cpu than I like to see at idle. Don't misunderstand, your at-rest temps are fine, but I like mine to come in with this CPU at about 32c to 34c. That is a personal preference and yours is fine within the range it is in. The board temps you have are a little higher and I like to have it near the 32c to 34c range for my personal rigs..

In addition, let me give you a run down on the fans:

CPU fan blowing air DOWN ON the heatsink - A required fan at all times

Rear Fan(s) pulling hot air out of the case - The first most important fan

Top Fan(s) pulling hot air out of the case.

Front Fan(s) pulling cool air in to the case - The second most important fan

Side Fans(s) pulling cool air in to the case

My suggestion, before you add more fans, start at the front fans pulling in cool air and then try it. To be quite honest, you can have too many fans which will create a turbulence in the case and that can also cause problems, so do it one area at a time. Just make sure what you presently have and the new front fan setup are facing the right direction.

Note: A generalization, but accurate for most setups. There could be variations for some case placements.

As a double check on votages and temps, run the Speedfan program also. More info always is helpful.

oweezy9 · 12-04-2007, 02:54 PM

Ok, in choosing a power supply, I have a few questions to be answered first. How does the install of a PSU with Multiple +12v rails differ from that of a single rail PSU? My computer install knowledge is limited to installing/removing PCI components and RAM. I have never messed with plugging things in **yet.

1. With the list of components I have, what PSU would you recommend, or what wattage. I have read the entire sticky on PSU's thoroughly and still have trouble calculating all the voltages from different CPU components (dvd, fans, leds, fans WITH leds, etc.) I got a rough estimate from that freeware website (don't remember the url) that shot out a number around 460w. If I plan on maybe going with an SLI setup in the future, how would that affect it?

2. Also, how can you install a fan into the side of a plastic acrylic case? I don't have any mounting points for a fan on either side.

3. When I install the two fans in the front portion of the case, where will I plug them in? On the motherboard, or into one of the PSU "outlets" (I'm not even sure which one of the PSU plugs would be appropriate.

)

4. I noticed that some of the fans I ALREADY have installed are not reflected in my SensorView Test. Should I go in, and plug them in somewhere else? Like I said, I bought this computer, not built it, so I am unsure on alot of these things, but am definitely trying to learn.

Lastly, thanks so much for your patience in answering my questions, with every post I am more and more enlightened to how my computer functions. Although, it'd be pretty badass if you could just fly over to my house and point out a few things. I'm sure it would take 30minutes at most aside from travel time

.

Thanks again,
Oliver

oweezy9 · 12-04-2007, 03:06 PM

I see what you're saying about too many fans creating a turbulance, so please ignore the [installing a] side-fan question, and I'll wait on putting on the RAM fan.

Do you think the upgrade to a 140 fan in rear, and the PSU with a 140fan facing down into the case is a good idea? Or should I try and find a PSU that just pulls in hot air from the case, and exhausts it to the rear?

Tumbleweed36 · 12-04-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oweezy9

Ok, in choosing a power supply, I have a few questions to be answered first. How does the install of a PSU with Multiple +12v rails differ from that of a single rail PSU?

No difference in install. You unhook the old power supply connections and hook up the new ones.

1. With the list of components I have, what PSU would you recommend, or what wattage.

I would recommend that you take a look at one of the following:

Antec Trio 650
Corsair 620
OCZ 700
Thermaltake Toughpower Series 650 or 750
PC Power & Cooling 610 or 750

Note: These supplies will meet your current needs and permit you some room to expand in the near future. All are top quality supplies.

I have read the entire sticky on PSU's thoroughly and still have trouble calculating all the voltages from different CPU components (dvd, fans, leds, fans WITH leds, etc.) I got a rough estimate from that freeware website (don't remember the url) that shot out a number around 460w. If I plan on maybe going with an SLI setup in the future, how would that affect it?

If you set something up in SLI, it will take more power. If you plan on going up to something like the 8800GTS in SLI mode, then you need to look at buying at least the 750 watt brand name power supply from the list I have given you above.

2. Also, how can you install a fan into the side of a plastic acrylic case? I don't have any mounting points for a fan on either side.

I would not do that unless absolutely necessary, then if it is (which I doubt), you would have to drill holes someplace and cut a hole. ( ouch)

3. When I install the two fans in the front portion of the case, where will I plug them in? On the motherboard, or into one of the PSU "outlets" (I'm not even sure which one of the PSU plugs would be appropriate.

)

Pardon the Pun, I am not a "fan" of plugging front fans into anything except the power supply. YOu can plug them in to the other outlets for fan control, but I prefer (remember, my preference), I like to get the three speed Antec fans and see what speed is necessary to run them and keep things cool. Then, I just leave them like that.

For example, I have two 120mm fans in my present two personal cases. (one front, one rear) I have found I can run them at the slowest speed and it stays cool without a problem. And, that also makes it quiet and no changing speeds noise.

. I noticed that some of the fans I ALREADY have installed are not reflected in my SensorView Test. Should I go in, and plug them in somewhere else? Like I said, I bought this computer, not built it, so I am unsure on alot of these things, but am definitely trying to learn.

If they are plugged in to the motherboard, they normally are reflected in these types programs. I would leave them where they are and not worry about them if it were me. Just make sure they are running.

I see what you're saying about too many fans creating a turbulance, so please ignore the [installing a] side-fan question, and I'll wait on putting on the RAM fan.

I don't use ram fans, but again, that is a personal choice. Put the front fan in and don't do anything else until you see what happens. Again, your temps are pretty normal anyhow, so I think you are worrying too much at this point in the game. Relax and see what happens.

Do you think the upgrade to a 140 fan in rear, and the PSU with a 140fan facing down into the case is a good idea? Or should I try and find a PSU that just pulls in hot air from the case, and exhausts it to the
rear?

A 140 fan pulls (or pushes) a lot of air and they are quiet in comparision to smaller fans most of the time. I use the 120mm fans where I can do that. If you buy one of the PSU's that I have listed, then any power supply cooling will take care of iteself.

Again, relax and see what happens when you get a decent power supply and a front fan running. I think you will be surprised when you get those two simple things done.
Thanks again,
Oliver

12-04-2007, 01:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
oweezy9 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6 OS: Vista 32-bit	Possible power supply problem. I have been having problems with my computer lately, involving frequent crashing at the most random times. From what I have been able to conclude from extensive internet and forum searching is that there are several possible culprits: Thermal Problems Insufficient Power Supply RAM Failure MB Failure (least likely from what I can tell) The only problem I am having is the frequent crashing. When I am playing a game or doing what I do on my computer, I don't have any problems with programs acting up or running slow whatsoever. In the past two weeks, the crashing has become a daily part of my computing experience. The first thing I checked was the RAM. I downloaded a few programs (including memtest86, everest, and prime95) and ran them according to available instruction. None of these tests revealed any immediate problems. When my computer freezes, it will freeze during boot-up (at the motherboard logo screen before vista), it will also freeze after being restarted (from a freeze) before or during the safe-mode selection screen. THIS leads me to believe that it isn't a virus causing these problems and it is most likely some sort of hardware problem. I tried removing a stick of ram at a time (of 2x1gb ddr2 sticks) and both would cause the computer to boot up (aside from the random freeze attacks). Now I have leaned to the possibility of having an inadequate Power Supply Unit and a Thermal problem Quick Specs include: ASUS m2n-sli deluxe MB AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ processor 2x1gb Corsair DDR2-6400 XMS2 memory sticks evga nvidia geforce 7950GT 512MB std case PSU 500w Aspire no entry fan (I know, I'm ordering one... I didn't know) 2x80mm exit fans, one rear, one top (Not including 80mm PSU exit fan, and the heat sink fan from the cpu) 2 DVD-R/RW drives I'm going to need advice in two main categories that I know of: 1. In researching PSU's I'm looking at the difference in the +12v rails (2, 3+) and don't really know how to choose or if they would be any more difficult to install (I would simply go... oh this plug goes here, hrm... and this one goes here). Would the PSU install be that simple? Please offer some insight 2. What can I do to decrease what thermal problems I may be having? -I'm ordering a fan that installs in the front of the case to suck air in (where should I plug it in?) -Also ordering a corsair RAM fan (plug that in where?) -Also ordering a pci slot fan for under the video card. Anyway, if you see any errors in my logic or have suggestions, please do.

12-04-2007, 04:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 19,650 OS: XP Professional	Re: Possible power supply problem. Download and run one of these two free programs and tell us the temps and the voltages. Please check temps when the computer is at-rest and while under-stress like playing a game. Also, please know the Aspire is NOT a quality power supply. SensorviewPro Speedfan __________________ ---------- I don't receive email notifications of replies to subscribed threads. (Internet provider policy) Therefore, if I don't respond to your post within 24 hours, please send me a reminder PM and include the link to your thread.

12-04-2007, 12:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
oweezy9 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6 OS: Vista 32-bit	Re: Possible power supply problem. After downloading and installing SensorView, these are the results I got. IDLE: Temps: CPU: 38/101 SYS 44/112 Aux 37/99 Usages: CPU 4-20% Memory 36% HDD 0% NIC 0-1% Fans: CPU: 3516 RPM SUS: 0 Aux: 0 Voltages: VCoreA: 1.26v VCoreB: 3.36v +3.3v: 0v +5v: 4.76v +12v: 11.8v +5VSB: 4.70v +VBAT: 2.94v Using Prime95 (with a 50mb setting) Heavy Load for 20 minutes: Temps: CPU: 54/130 SYS: 60/140 AUX: 42/108 Usages: CPU - 54% Memory - 96% HDD- 0-50% NIC - 1% Fans: CPU: 3480 RPM SUS/AUX: 0 Voltages: VCoreA: 1.25v VCoreB: 3.36v +3.3v: 0v +5v: 4.73v +12v: 11.60v +5VSB: 4.70v +VBAT: 2.94v After using Everest, and some other programs, the highest temperature ever sensed was sitting at 45degC. Now that Sensors View has come into play, I can see that there is a bad problem. I am for sure going to purchase a PSU that is SLI capable for the components I listed in my first post, but I will need some assistance on a few topics relating, that I will list in questions below: 1. For a power supply to support the components above (*added two xms2 1gb corsair sticks of ddr2 memory for a total of four), what wattage should I get? 1b. I read the power supply sticky thread, and it mentions dual rail breifly, but the question I am having is whether they would be pretty straightforward to install the plugs the same as a single rail, or would I have to plug things in differently? (also would this be explained in the instructions with the PSU?) 1c. Some PSU's come with 1 single 140mm fan, and some have dual 80mm fans. The PSU I have now uses the dual 80mm fan setup pulling air in from the case, and exhausting it out of the case. If I went with the 140mm fan driven PSU, I'm guessing I would need to rearrange my ventilation, correct? --which leads me to my next question. 2. Rearranging my Fans. -As of now, I have some bad problems obviously after running the sensors view program. Let me give you a basic outline of what I have going. For pulling air in, All I have is the cpu heatsink fan that pulls in from a chamber mounted from the removable side of my case. This can't be right. -In the front of my case, I saw that there is room for 2 80mm fans, but that is the only spot I can see for pulling air in besides the cpu fan. -As for removing air, I have an 80mm in the rear, and an 80mm on top of the case, along with the 80mm fan exhausting hot air from the PSU. So a total of 3 fans. Old fan setup: no front fans cpu fan pulling air from side 2x80mm fans exhausting (1 rear, one top) PSU has 2x80mm fan setup exhausting in rear. New plans (subject to approval): 2x80mm fans in front of case cpu fan from side 1x80mm exhaust on top 1x140mm exhaust in rear PCI slot under video card exhausting PSU with 140mm fan dumping hot air in the case. corsair triple ram fan blowing away from ram does this sound good? ***disclaimer, when I built this computer I had no idea about cooling or how it should be done, nor power supplies, or anything else for that matter. I am slowly picking up alot of information, now that I am having problems. I have probably read up on things from ram, to power supplies, and a little on fans over the past three days.

12-04-2007, 01:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 19,650 OS: XP Professional	Re: Possible power supply problem. It seems to me that your voltages are pretty darn low on the +5 and the +12 rails. The +12 is within range, but very low at that which could explain some of your problems. I just think your power supply is not cutting it and that may even explain some of your temps which are within range, but slightly higher for this cpu than I like to see at idle. Don't misunderstand, your at-rest temps are fine, but I like mine to come in with this CPU at about 32c to 34c. That is a personal preference and yours is fine within the range it is in. The board temps you have are a little higher and I like to have it near the 32c to 34c range for my personal rigs.. In addition, let me give you a run down on the fans: CPU fan blowing air DOWN ON the heatsink - A required fan at all times Rear Fan(s) pulling hot air out of the case - The first most important fan Top Fan(s) pulling hot air out of the case. Front Fan(s) pulling cool air in to the case - The second most important fan Side Fans(s) pulling cool air in to the case My suggestion, before you add more fans, start at the front fans pulling in cool air and then try it. To be quite honest, you can have too many fans which will create a turbulence in the case and that can also cause problems, so do it one area at a time. Just make sure what you presently have and the new front fan setup are facing the right direction. Note: A generalization, but accurate for most setups. There could be variations for some case placements. As a double check on votages and temps, run the Speedfan program also. More info always is helpful. __________________ ---------- I don't receive email notifications of replies to subscribed threads. (Internet provider policy) Therefore, if I don't respond to your post within 24 hours, please send me a reminder PM and include the link to your thread. Last edited by Tumbleweed36; 12-04-2007 at 04:01 PM.

12-04-2007, 02:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
oweezy9 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6 OS: Vista 32-bit	Re: Possible power supply problem. Ok, in choosing a power supply, I have a few questions to be answered first. How does the install of a PSU with Multiple +12v rails differ from that of a single rail PSU? My computer install knowledge is limited to installing/removing PCI components and RAM. I have never messed with plugging things in *yet. 1. With the list of components I have, what PSU would you recommend, or what wattage. I have read the entire sticky on PSU's thoroughly and still have trouble calculating all the voltages from different CPU components (dvd, fans, leds, fans WITH leds, etc.) I got a rough estimate from that freeware website (don't remember the url) that shot out a number around 460w. If I plan on maybe going with an SLI setup in the future, how would that affect it? 2. Also, how can you install a fan into the side of a plastic acrylic case? I don't have any mounting points for a fan on either side. 3. When I install the two fans in the front portion of the case, where will I plug them in? On the motherboard, or into one of the PSU "outlets" (I'm not even sure which one of the PSU plugs would be appropriate.) 4. I noticed that some of the fans I ALREADY have installed are not reflected in my SensorView Test. Should I go in, and plug them in somewhere else? Like I said, I bought this computer, not built it, so I am unsure on alot of these things, but am definitely trying to learn. Lastly, thanks so much for your patience in answering my questions, with every post I am more and more enlightened to how my computer functions. Although, it'd be pretty badass if you could just fly over to my house and point out a few things. I'm sure it would take 30minutes at most aside from travel time . Thanks again, Oliver Last edited by oweezy9; 12-04-2007 at 02:56 PM.*

12-04-2007, 03:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
oweezy9 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6 OS: Vista 32-bit	Re: Possible power supply problem. I see what you're saying about too many fans creating a turbulance, so please ignore the [installing a] side-fan question, and I'll wait on putting on the RAM fan. Do you think the upgrade to a 140 fan in rear, and the PSU with a 140fan facing down into the case is a good idea? Or should I try and find a PSU that just pulls in hot air from the case, and exhausts it to the rear?