stickies

**Stu_computer** · 08-19-2005, 08:35 AM

NOTE: This testing applies only to the standard ATX PSU, it does not apply to proprietary PSU's (ie: older Dell's ) which use a different pinout arrangement for their ATX connectors (non-standard).

20 and 24-Pin Connectors: The 24-Pin connector has an additional 4 pins attached to one end of the connector. The top 20-Pin section is electrically identical to the original 20-Pin ATX connector. Due to the additional connections the numbering sequence changes, so if you have a 24-Pin connection then make that adjustment when comparing any numbers shown below. (Refer to the pictures below.)

_____________________________________________

If you suspect a part has failed but not sure if it's the Power Supply (PSU), Processor (CPU), or motherboard at fault, you can use a multimeter to aid in locating the probable cause.

Testing the DC voltages
With the 20-pin ATX connector in the motherboard socket and AC power on, the DC voltages have to be probed from the backside of the connector by inserting the probe tip alongside the wires to contact the connector pins.

Set meter to read 20Vdc. Refer to ATX 20-pin connector pinout chart (below) and put the black probe tip to a GND pin (ie: black wires on pins 15, 16, 17).

With the Red probe tip...
1. Check Pin 9 (Purple, VSB) is about 5V. This is the standby voltage and is always on when the power supply is live to an AC source. If not 5V then problem with PSU, or a possible short circuit in motherboard or a peripheral device has caused the PSU to auto-shutdown.
2. Check Pin 14 (Green, PS_On) should be about 3~5V. If PS_On is zero Volts and VSB okay then disconnect the pc case Power On switch to see if voltage comes up, if so then bad switch.
3. Press the pc case Power On switch and PS_On should drop to ~0V.
If no change, the suspects are faulty switch or CPU. If the motherboards PS_On pins are accessible by removing the pc case's power on leads then short the 2 pins with a light tap from a screwdriver tip to trigger the power on. Another way is to use a jumper wire to short PS_On to GND. If no change in PS_On then probable fault is CPU.

With PS_On at ~0V...
4. Check Pin 8 (Gray, Power_OK) should be 3~5V to signal the CPU that power is okay to start. If not above 2.5V then signal not high enough to trigger CPU for start.
5. Pressing the Reset button (or shorting the reset pins) will make Power_OK go low (0V), and when released should go back up to 3~5V.
(Note, this may not happen if the manufacturer has used a 'soft' method to trigger the Reset.)
NOTE: If CPU doesn't POST when Power is first turned on but does POST when Reset triggered, then the initial power demand (by all devices) is to high for the PSU to handle, need to replace PSU with a better one.

With Power_OK at ~5V...
6. Refer to chart and check voltages are at proper levels on the 20-pin connector and all the peripheral power connectors inside the case.
+3.3v pins 1, 2, 11 (Orange wires)
+5V pins 4, 6, 19, 20, (Red wires)
+12V pin 10 (Yellow wires)
-5V pin 18
-12V pin 12

Note: Depending on the quality of the PSU, there may be nominal voltages detected on the +5V and +12V lines with AC live and pc power off. Always remove AC power, and wait at least 30 seconds to allow residual power to drain before working in pc case.

Testing for Continuity
UNPLUG THE COMPUTER FROM THE AC POWER, and wait 1 minute to allow residual power to drain off.

Set the multimeter to the lowest Ohms ( Ω symbol) value, a typical value is 200.
Touch the probe leads together to zero the meter, note the value if it's not quite zero (live zero), this value will be used to indicate a short circuit during testing. Touch the two probe tips to bare metal inside the pc chasis, should get same zero reading.

Testing the PSU for short and open circuits...
Remove ATX connector from motherboard.
1. Keeping one probe on chasis, use other probe to check PSU's AC ground pin and the DC connectors black wire pins are reading zero. Any value other than zero indicates faulty grounding-replace PSU.
2. Keeping one probe on chasis, use other probe to check the connectors non-black wires are non-zero (if a colored wire reading less than 50 suspect a problem).

Testing the Motherboard for open circuit...
Remove the CPU from motherboard socket before doing this test.
Refer to ATX 20-pin connector pinout chart for GND pin locations. Use PSU's 20-pin connector to familiarize yourself with the board's connector. Only test the GND pins, the multimeter's internal voltage may damage a component connected to the other pins.
3. Keeping one probe on chasis, check GND pins 3,5,7,13,15,16,17 should have the zero reading, any other value suspect a fault-check board is properly installed and repeat test.
If still non-zero remove board and test GND pins again, with one probe touching the metal ring at a mounting hole, if still non-zero then motherboard faulty-replace it with another board.

.

**crazijoe** · 11-02-2005, 05:31 AM

There seems to be a lot of confusion with understanding high density and low density memory modules. I will try and clear this up a little.
A lot of people can obtain high density memory for a ‘cheap’ cost. These as usually branded as generic or do not have a brand name on them. While they save money on this memory, it may not work with their specific motherboard. A majority of motherboards do not accept high density modules. They usually show or register as half of what they spec out or advertised to be (i.e. bought a 1GB module and it only shows as 512MB), or they don’t work at all. This is common on all size modules. DDR and standard SDRAM included.

First rule, Double sided memory is not always low density modules. High density modules can have 16 chips (8 on each side). 'Standard' RAM chips are organized a DEPTH x 8 Bits. E.g. 32x8, 64x8, etc. That means 8 of the chips make up a 64 bit wide rank (memory bus is 64 bits wide). "Double Sided" is an old term to describe a stick with 16 chips, 8 on each side. And with DEPTH x 8 chips that makes for 2 ranks (or, again in an older style terminology: 2 'banks').

'High Density' chips are DEPTH x 4 bits so it takes 16 to make a 64 bit wide memory rank. And this is why "double sided" is no longer the favored description because when x8 chips are used "Double sided" means "double rank" but with x4 chips it takes both sides and 16 chips to make the ONE, single, rank.

Using a 1GB memory module, the 'High density' memory stick crams the 1GB into ONE RANK by using 16 deeper (twice as deep) x4 bit width chips. And this is how they arrive at the confusing term 'high density'. The chips themselves are no higher in density than the x8 chips but since they are organized as x4 they can cram more 'bytes' into a single rank because 16 chips make up a rank rather than 8, not that it helps make the stick itself any 'higher' in 'density' because you can still only get 16 chips mounted on the thing.

A memory 'slot' is usually designed for 'standard' x8 chips and memory sticks containing 2 ranks. That is how the 'capacity' will be described.
For example, a motherboard that will accept 3GB of memory with 3 slots. Each slot will accept a “double rank” module. Never exceeding 512MB per rank.
Next example, a motherboard that will accept 2GB of memory with 3 slots. This would be tricky and would require reading the owners manual of the system board. Typically on these boards, the first slot will accept a double rank module and the combination of the second and third will accept 2 ranks never exceeding 512MB per rank. I.E.
first slot – double rank module
second slot – single rank
third slot – single rank
or
first slot – double rank
second OR third slot – double rank leaving one of the slots empty.

So, a 1GB 'high density' stick puts 1GB in ONE RANK and a 'standard' (low) density 1GB stick is two 512MB Ranks. Same size, same 'density'. It's the RANK organization that's different.

This still doesn’t mean you cannot use a ‘high density’ module in a motherboard. If the slot will accept a double rank module, never exceeding 512MB per rank, you could still use a 512MB ‘high density’ stick of memory, because it is 512MB in a single rank module.

In conclusion, If you don’t know if your motherboard will accept ‘high density’ modules, buy the more expensive ‘low density’ or what they call ‘100% compatible’ modules. The more money you spent, will give you more assurance and less of a headache later.

**crazijoe** · 11-21-2005, 05:23 AM

New update to add to the example.
I just recieved an email ad for some inexpensive memory. 1GB of PC3200 memory for $59.49 a stick. Excellent deal however look closely and the clue is in the first part of the description:

NCP DDR 400 PC3200 1GB (1024MB) 128x4 16C - NEW
Model: NCP-1GB
Manufacturer:
Weight: 0.59 lbs
Price: $59.49

The chips are organized in a 128x4 configuration. They are squeezing the whole 1GB into a single rank. Therfore this would be considered 'high density'.

**blackduck30** · 09-27-2006, 09:31 PM

If you're trying to decide which power supply to get or want more information about power supplies then read This Thread.

**crazijoe** · 12-06-2006, 07:59 AM

4GB of memory installed but only 3GB is showing in Windows.
Does this sound familiar?

Many people have noticed that when they install large amounts of memory in their systems, that Windows will show much lower then the actual physical amount. This is basically a limit of the 32 bit OS. Example: you install 4GB of memory. The system BIOS will show 4 GB of memory but the Windows OS only shows 3.25GB of memory.

Windows XP 32 bit version will accept up to 4GB of memory. However Windows will reserve the address space 3.5GB to 4GB to hardware devices. If these devices need more memory, Windows will allocate more of it to accommodate it. It is rare but not uncommon to see a system with 4GB of memory installed and only 2.75GB that is usable. Another note PCI-E 16x usually will gobble up 256MB of the address space. So if you have an SLI configuration, the 2 PCI-E 16x cards will chew up 512MB on top of the other devices that need the address space. It is possible to tweak the BIOS to reduce the amount of memory these devices use but often the result is negligible.

This is a note taken from an Intel MB manual:
ftp://download.intel.com/support/mot.../sp2gp2tps.pdf

Note: Memory between 4GB and 4GB minus 512MB will not
be accessible for use by the operating system and may be lost
to the user, because this area is reserved for BIOS, APIC
configuration space, PCI adapter interface, and virtual video
memory space. This means that if 4GB of memory is installed,
3.5GB of this memory is usable. The chipset should allow the
remapping of unused memory above the 4GB address, but
this memory may not be accessible to an operating system that
has a 4GB memory limit.

You can have more than 4GB on Windows XP 32 bit by using the PAE or Physical Address Extension switch and it may show in Windows, however the OS is still limited by 4GB and any memory installed above that will not be usable.

One must realize this is not a hardware issue but an operating system issue. These limits are not in the 64 bit versions of XP or Vista. Even the 32 bit version of Vista will have this limitation.

Also note that any application running in Windows XP 32bit is limited to 2GB and will not address anything above 2GB. This is lifted in 64bit, however if you are running a 32bit application in a 64bit OS, you still have the 2GB limit.

More information.

http://dlsvr01.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/4GB_Rev1.pdf

**crazijoe** · 12-14-2006, 11:37 AM

More additions.
When trying to identify a High Density or Low Density module.
This can be very tough. Most the time the chips will be individually marked "16x8" or "32x4" etc.. A **x4 will guaranty a High Density module. A **x8 single sided module will also guaranty it's High Density. I have also seen a double sided module that was configured with 4 chips on each side. Each chip was 128x8. This was a 1GB High Density module.

When buying memory, if the seller does not know if the module is high density or low density, ask them if they guaranty it will work in your specific machine. Or ask them if it does not work if you can receive a full refund. If they do not, then do not buy. Like I've said before. It's better to spend more and get the correct product than spend a little and hope it works. If you want a module that is guaranty to work in your machine, buy from memory experts like Crucial or 4AllMemory. They may charge a little more but the extra cost is better then the headache of getting the wrong memory.
As far as what your motherboard supports, read the manual.

**linderman** · 12-29-2006, 07:37 AM

great info fellas

**linderman** · 01-08-2007, 03:04 PM

then this is what you buy. just dont use both 4 pin molex plugs off the same rail.

http://www.xoxide.com/hiper-p8-adapter.html

if you need a new PSU and you need the 8pin motherboard AUX connector please ask for assistance in the Power Supply Section; we can point you in the right direction.

nork · 01-16-2007, 10:01 AM

This is not a short-term fix but a fix that will last for a long, long time.

Buy some graphite powder and some oil at an auto or hardware store. They come in different packages. For oil, the best is the pen-type as they are easy to handle and only give a small amount at a time. Just about any oil in a pen format will work fine. The graphite powder comes in small plastic tubes. But make sure you get graphite powder, not graphite oil, its too thin and runny for this job! So you need graphite powder in a small tube and oil in a round "pen" that can be squeezed out and placed just where you need it. Also, when the oil is used up in the "pen" you can open it and add your own oil.

First, clean the fan blades off real well. If you have a heatsink with the fan then clean the heatsink off as well. You can even use a bit of your oil and some q-tips for cleaning if needed. There is usually a small label in the middle of the fan. It will have a name and other info on it. Peel one edge up carefully and put a very small amount of oil in where you lifted the label up. Now add some graphite powder in the same place where you put the oil, add a fair amount more of the graphite powder than the oil. Clean off excess oil and graphite with a q-tip and push the label back where it was. You may need a very small amount of duct tape to hold the label in position and to prevent leakage. This is important if the fan is going to "sit up" as opposed to lying flat.

Now put the fan back where you want it and when it starts spinning it may be noisy for a few seconds until the graphite\oil works its way in. Then it will stop and it will stay stopped for many years and you may very well not need to buy a new fan after all! Just adding oil will only work for a while.

I experimented a lot with this and this is the very best way to quiet all those fans and have them work well. I have always been a big fan of those removable ide hard drive trays that you can buy. But the fans are the pits, they get noisy real fast. So i had to find a way to fix them as they are very expensive and hard to replace. Now i dont have to. Combo of oil and graphite is the very best solution by far. One caution, graphite stains worse than oil, so be careful! Im talking about staining your clothes and hands.

You can use this oil and graphite powder system with all cpu fans, video card fans, system fans, and even fans inside power supplies. But one word of caution, its easy to open a power supply and take out the fan, but do be careful as there are voltages there can can hurt you badly. If you dont know what you are doing then wear rubber gloves to get the fan out and to put the fan back in after the oil and graphite repair!

It doesn't matter whether the fan uses a ball bearing or a sleeve bearing, long as you can find a way to get some oil and graphite powder inside it.

Trust me, this will work. If the fan spins my method will work for years and I have even fixed fans that were stuck and wouldnt spin! This is better done with the fan on the table but in those cases where you cant or dont want to take the fan out of the system, thats where the "pen" with the needle comes in again, but i still find a way to get some graphite in as well, graphite is what makes the oil last a long time! And graphite is also an oil, but you need both together for maximum effectiveness. Oil by itself will only last a few weeks or so and then evaporate, and the fan will get noisy again. Its the graphite powder that does the long term job. The oil really only helps to spread the graphite powder around really well so the graphite can do the job!

Graphite, i imagine is conductive, but i have never run into a problem. I imagine its because its not conductive enough to cause any problems in that area.

Another thing it does. If you cant get a part to fit in, instead of using vaseline or some other lubricant, use graphite powder. Graphite powder can withstand heat better than vaseline. The only thing, as i said above, it does stain, so you have to be careful with it, wipe up any spills, etc. And, in some cases, you might want to use it with a touch of oil, just enuf to help spread the graphite powder around a bit better and faster.

You can pick up a tube of graphite powder for about $3 or so and theres enough to fix maybe 100 fans or more. Course it works on noisy and sticky doors in the house, anything that needs to slide like windows in wood and aluminum frames. I got an email from a person who used it to fix a sticky key on an old favorite keyboard. It works on just about anything, but, again, be careful as it does stain so its hard to get it out of clothes.

Hope you do as well as i have with this info!

Thanks

**crazijoe** · 03-06-2007, 06:05 AM

Ok, I'll try a little more clarification.

A memory bus is 64 bit wide. Chips on a memory module are labled 32x4, 64x8, 32x16, etc. The 16 on a 32x 16 module designates the bit.
The 32 on a 32x16 module designates the size of the chip in MB.
Let's do an example:

You have a 512MB memory module that has 16 chips on it. 8 on each side. Each chip is labeled 32x8.
We need enough chips to make the 64 bit memory bus. So since each chip is 8 bit, we need 8 chips. And since this module has 16 of these chips, and only 8 of them are required to make the 64 bit wide bus, this is considered a double rank module or Low Density module.
When you take the size of each chip (32) times the number it takes to make the 64 bit bus (8), this would be how much memory is in the rank (256MB).
Now since this is a double rank module, the total amount of the stick is (256x256) 512MB.
You motherboard will need to accept at least 256MB in each rank.

Next example.

1GB memory module. This has 16 chips on it, all labeled as 64x4. Because it is designated x 4, each chip is only 4 bit wide. You will need all 16 chips to make the 64 bit wide memory bus. Therefore this is a single rank module or High Density.

Next example.

512MB memory module. It has 8 chips on it, all on one side. Each chip is labled 64x16. Now since each chip is 16 bit wide, it only takes 4 chips to make the 64 bit wide memory bus. And becasue there are 8 chips on this module, this is considered a double rank module or Low Density.
Imagine that. A single sided module that is low density.
It doesn't matter how the chips are arranged on the module but what type of chips are being used.

Now back to the motherboard.
What will work in your motherboard?
Read the manual.
If your motherboard has 2 slots, each slot is double ranked, and each slot will accept 1GB. This means that each slot will accept up to a 1GB double ranked or Low Density module or 512MB single rank or High Density module.

dai · 04-18-2007, 12:10 PM

post stickies in here

dai · 05-09-2007, 11:48 AM

for measuring your amp draw on your PSU and system
pictorial article
http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/f77/ho...-rails-130666/

**TheMatt** · 06-26-2007, 05:11 PM

To further CJ's clarification of high density and lo density RAM:

While taking out the trash at the shop I work at, I noticed a stick of 184-pin DDR RAM in the trash pile among some dead power supplies. I figured it was worth testing it out before letting it go. I took it home and was about to test it when I realized that it had only chips on one side.

There is a quick way to test if a module is high or low density:

For 168-pin SDRAM, 184-pin DDR SDRAM, and 240-pin DDR2 SDRAM modules greater than 256 MB:

Modules with chips on only one side (8 per side) are high density.
Modules with chips on both sides (4 per side) are high density.
Modules with chips on only one side (4 per side) are high density.

So basically, modules with 8 chips total are high density. This does not mean that if you have a module with 16 total chips you get a free pass though! It gets sticky when you get to 1 GB modules because high density modules do have 16 chips total.

This is where you have to look at the configuration. High density 1 GB modules have a 128MBx4 configuration whereas a low density 1 GB modules use a 64MBx8 configuration.

What did I do that high density module I brought home? I used it as a desk ornament.

11-02-2005, 05:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
crazijoe Moderator, Hardware Forums Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Omaha, The Center of the Universe Posts: 7,632 OS: WinXP, Win2K3 My System	High Density Memory? Low Density Memory? There seems to be a lot of confusion with understanding high density and low density memory modules. I will try and clear this up a little. A lot of people can obtain high density memory for a ‘cheap’ cost. These as usually branded as generic or do not have a brand name on them. While they save money on this memory, it may not work with their specific motherboard. A majority of motherboards do not accept high density modules. They usually show or register as half of what they spec out or advertised to be (i.e. bought a 1GB module and it only shows as 512MB), or they don’t work at all. This is common on all size modules. DDR and standard SDRAM included. First rule, Double sided memory is not always low density modules. High density modules can have 16 chips (8 on each side). 'Standard' RAM chips are organized a DEPTH x 8 Bits. E.g. 32x8, 64x8, etc. That means 8 of the chips make up a 64 bit wide rank (memory bus is 64 bits wide). "Double Sided" is an old term to describe a stick with 16 chips, 8 on each side. And with DEPTH x 8 chips that makes for 2 ranks (or, again in an older style terminology: 2 'banks'). 'High Density' chips are DEPTH x 4 bits so it takes 16 to make a 64 bit wide memory rank. And this is why "double sided" is no longer the favored description because when x8 chips are used "Double sided" means "double rank" but with x4 chips it takes both sides and 16 chips to make the ONE, single, rank. Using a 1GB memory module, the 'High density' memory stick crams the 1GB into ONE RANK by using 16 deeper (twice as deep) x4 bit width chips. And this is how they arrive at the confusing term 'high density'. The chips themselves are no higher in density than the x8 chips but since they are organized as x4 they can cram more 'bytes' into a single rank because 16 chips make up a rank rather than 8, not that it helps make the stick itself any 'higher' in 'density' because you can still only get 16 chips mounted on the thing. A memory 'slot' is usually designed for 'standard' x8 chips and memory sticks containing 2 ranks. That is how the 'capacity' will be described. For example, a motherboard that will accept 3GB of memory with 3 slots. Each slot will accept a “double rank” module. Never exceeding 512MB per rank. Next example, a motherboard that will accept 2GB of memory with 3 slots. This would be tricky and would require reading the owners manual of the system board. Typically on these boards, the first slot will accept a double rank module and the combination of the second and third will accept 2 ranks never exceeding 512MB per rank. I.E. first slot – double rank module second slot – single rank third slot – single rank or first slot – double rank second OR third slot – double rank leaving one of the slots empty. So, a 1GB 'high density' stick puts 1GB in ONE RANK and a 'standard' (low) density 1GB stick is two 512MB Ranks. Same size, same 'density'. It's the RANK organization that's different. This still doesn’t mean you cannot use a ‘high density’ module in a motherboard. If the slot will accept a double rank module, never exceeding 512MB per rank, you could still use a 512MB ‘high density’ stick of memory, because it is 512MB in a single rank module. In conclusion, If you don’t know if your motherboard will accept ‘high density’ modules, buy the more expensive ‘low density’ or what they call ‘100% compatible’ modules. The more money you spent, will give you more assurance and less of a headache later. __________________ Microsoft MCSA + Messaging, MVP, A+, Network+ Do you want a real Republican? HDD diagnostic tools / HDD data recovery software Last edited by TheMatt : 04-24-2007 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Fixed title.

11-21-2005, 05:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
crazijoe Moderator, Hardware Forums Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Omaha, The Center of the Universe Posts: 7,632 OS: WinXP, Win2K3 My System	New update to add to the example. I just recieved an email ad for some inexpensive memory. 1GB of PC3200 memory for $59.49 a stick. Excellent deal however look closely and the clue is in the first part of the description: NCP DDR 400 PC3200 1GB (1024MB) 128x4 16C - NEW Model: NCP-1GB Manufacturer: Weight: 0.59 lbs Price: $59.49 The chips are organized in a 128x4 configuration. They are squeezing the whole 1GB into a single rank. Therfore this would be considered 'high density'. __________________ Microsoft MCSA + Messaging, MVP, A+, Network+ Do you want a real Republican? HDD diagnostic tools / HDD data recovery software

09-27-2006, 09:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
blackduck30 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Wollongong/Australia Posts: 4,227 OS: XP pro SP3/Vista Ultimate My System	Power Supply Information and Selection If you're trying to decide which power supply to get or want more information about power supplies then read This Thread. __________________ Blackduck30 Time is like money and milk, It's always running out Any Donations Help Keep TSF Free For All Last edited by mattlock : 02-26-2008 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Updated PSU article link

12-06-2006, 07:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
crazijoe Moderator, Hardware Forums Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Omaha, The Center of the Universe Posts: 7,632 OS: WinXP, Win2K3 My System	Memory Limits in Windows XP 4GB of memory installed but only 3GB is showing in Windows. Does this sound familiar? Many people have noticed that when they install large amounts of memory in their systems, that Windows will show much lower then the actual physical amount. This is basically a limit of the 32 bit OS. Example: you install 4GB of memory. The system BIOS will show 4 GB of memory but the Windows OS only shows 3.25GB of memory. Windows XP 32 bit version will accept up to 4GB of memory. However Windows will reserve the address space 3.5GB to 4GB to hardware devices. If these devices need more memory, Windows will allocate more of it to accommodate it. It is rare but not uncommon to see a system with 4GB of memory installed and only 2.75GB that is usable. Another note PCI-E 16x usually will gobble up 256MB of the address space. So if you have an SLI configuration, the 2 PCI-E 16x cards will chew up 512MB on top of the other devices that need the address space. It is possible to tweak the BIOS to reduce the amount of memory these devices use but often the result is negligible. This is a note taken from an Intel MB manual: ftp://download.intel.com/support/mot.../sp2gp2tps.pdf Note: Memory between 4GB and 4GB minus 512MB will not be accessible for use by the operating system and may be lost to the user, because this area is reserved for BIOS, APIC configuration space, PCI adapter interface, and virtual video memory space. This means that if 4GB of memory is installed, 3.5GB of this memory is usable. The chipset should allow the remapping of unused memory above the 4GB address, but this memory may not be accessible to an operating system that has a 4GB memory limit. You can have more than 4GB on Windows XP 32 bit by using the PAE or Physical Address Extension switch and it may show in Windows, however the OS is still limited by 4GB and any memory installed above that will not be usable. One must realize this is not a hardware issue but an operating system issue. These limits are not in the 64 bit versions of XP or Vista. Even the 32 bit version of Vista will have this limitation. Also note that any application running in Windows XP 32bit is limited to 2GB and will not address anything above 2GB. This is lifted in 64bit, however if you are running a 32bit application in a 64bit OS, you still have the 2GB limit. More information. http://dlsvr01.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/4GB_Rev1.pdf __________________ Microsoft MCSA + Messaging, MVP, A+, Network+ Do you want a real Republican? HDD diagnostic tools / HDD data recovery software Last edited by crazijoe : 12-06-2006 at 09:34 AM.

12-14-2006, 11:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
crazijoe Moderator, Hardware Forums Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Omaha, The Center of the Universe Posts: 7,632 OS: WinXP, Win2K3 My System	More additions. When trying to identify a High Density or Low Density module. This can be very tough. Most the time the chips will be individually marked "16x8" or "32x4" etc.. A x4 will guaranty a High Density module. A x8 single sided module will also guaranty it's High Density. I have also seen a double sided module that was configured with 4 chips on each side. Each chip was 128x8. This was a 1GB High Density module. When buying memory, if the seller does not know if the module is high density or low density, ask them if they guaranty it will work in your specific machine. Or ask them if it does not work if you can receive a full refund. If they do not, then do not buy. Like I've said before. It's better to spend more and get the correct product than spend a little and hope it works. If you want a module that is guaranty to work in your machine, buy from memory experts like Crucial or 4AllMemory. They may charge a little more but the extra cost is better then the headache of getting the wrong memory. As far as what your motherboard supports, read the manual. __________________ Microsoft MCSA + Messaging, MVP, A+, Network+ Do you want a real Republican? HDD diagnostic tools / HDD data recovery software Last edited by crazijoe : 12-14-2006 at 11:46 AM.

12-29-2006, 07:37 AM	#7 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 11,953 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	Before You Buy Memory great info fellas __________________ IF YOUR HARD DRIVE DIED RIGHT NOW; WOULD YOU CRY ??? ASK US FOR HELP DEVELOPING A DATA BACK-UP METHOD Last edited by linderman : 04-22-2007 at 06:10 PM.

01-08-2007, 03:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 11,953 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	If your PSU lacks an 8 Pin CPU power then this is what you buy. just dont use both 4 pin molex plugs off the same rail. http://www.xoxide.com/hiper-p8-adapter.html if you need a new PSU and you need the 8pin motherboard AUX connector please ask for assistance in the Power Supply Section; we can point you in the right direction. __________________ IF YOUR HARD DRIVE DIED RIGHT NOW; WOULD YOU CRY ??? ASK US FOR HELP DEVELOPING A DATA BACK-UP METHOD

01-16-2007, 10:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
nork Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 114 OS: XP pro	Tutorial: Repair your noisy cpu and system fans This is not a short-term fix but a fix that will last for a long, long time. Buy some graphite powder and some oil at an auto or hardware store. They come in different packages. For oil, the best is the pen-type as they are easy to handle and only give a small amount at a time. Just about any oil in a pen format will work fine. The graphite powder comes in small plastic tubes. But make sure you get graphite powder, not graphite oil, its too thin and runny for this job! So you need graphite powder in a small tube and oil in a round "pen" that can be squeezed out and placed just where you need it. Also, when the oil is used up in the "pen" you can open it and add your own oil. First, clean the fan blades off real well. If you have a heatsink with the fan then clean the heatsink off as well. You can even use a bit of your oil and some q-tips for cleaning if needed. There is usually a small label in the middle of the fan. It will have a name and other info on it. Peel one edge up carefully and put a very small amount of oil in where you lifted the label up. Now add some graphite powder in the same place where you put the oil, add a fair amount more of the graphite powder than the oil. Clean off excess oil and graphite with a q-tip and push the label back where it was. You may need a very small amount of duct tape to hold the label in position and to prevent leakage. This is important if the fan is going to "sit up" as opposed to lying flat. Now put the fan back where you want it and when it starts spinning it may be noisy for a few seconds until the graphite\oil works its way in. Then it will stop and it will stay stopped for many years and you may very well not need to buy a new fan after all! Just adding oil will only work for a while. I experimented a lot with this and this is the very best way to quiet all those fans and have them work well. I have always been a big fan of those removable ide hard drive trays that you can buy. But the fans are the pits, they get noisy real fast. So i had to find a way to fix them as they are very expensive and hard to replace. Now i dont have to. Combo of oil and graphite is the very best solution by far. One caution, graphite stains worse than oil, so be careful! Im talking about staining your clothes and hands. You can use this oil and graphite powder system with all cpu fans, video card fans, system fans, and even fans inside power supplies. But one word of caution, its easy to open a power supply and take out the fan, but do be careful as there are voltages there can can hurt you badly. If you dont know what you are doing then wear rubber gloves to get the fan out and to put the fan back in after the oil and graphite repair! It doesn't matter whether the fan uses a ball bearing or a sleeve bearing, long as you can find a way to get some oil and graphite powder inside it. Trust me, this will work. If the fan spins my method will work for years and I have even fixed fans that were stuck and wouldnt spin! This is better done with the fan on the table but in those cases where you cant or dont want to take the fan out of the system, thats where the "pen" with the needle comes in again, but i still find a way to get some graphite in as well, graphite is what makes the oil last a long time! And graphite is also an oil, but you need both together for maximum effectiveness. Oil by itself will only last a few weeks or so and then evaporate, and the fan will get noisy again. Its the graphite powder that does the long term job. The oil really only helps to spread the graphite powder around really well so the graphite can do the job! Graphite, i imagine is conductive, but i have never run into a problem. I imagine its because its not conductive enough to cause any problems in that area. Another thing it does. If you cant get a part to fit in, instead of using vaseline or some other lubricant, use graphite powder. Graphite powder can withstand heat better than vaseline. The only thing, as i said above, it does stain, so you have to be careful with it, wipe up any spills, etc. And, in some cases, you might want to use it with a touch of oil, just enuf to help spread the graphite powder around a bit better and faster. You can pick up a tube of graphite powder for about $3 or so and theres enough to fix maybe 100 fans or more. Course it works on noisy and sticky doors in the house, anything that needs to slide like windows in wood and aluminum frames. I got an email from a person who used it to fix a sticky key on an old favorite keyboard. It works on just about anything, but, again, be careful as it does stain so its hard to get it out of clothes. Hope you do as well as i have with this info! Thanks

03-06-2007, 06:05 AM	#10 (permalink)
crazijoe Moderator, Hardware Forums Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Omaha, The Center of the Universe Posts: 7,632 OS: WinXP, Win2K3 My System	Ok, I'll try a little more clarification. A memory bus is 64 bit wide. Chips on a memory module are labled 32x4, 64x8, 32x16, etc. The 16 on a 32x 16 module designates the bit. The 32 on a 32x16 module designates the size of the chip in MB. Let's do an example: You have a 512MB memory module that has 16 chips on it. 8 on each side. Each chip is labeled 32x8. We need enough chips to make the 64 bit memory bus. So since each chip is 8 bit, we need 8 chips. And since this module has 16 of these chips, and only 8 of them are required to make the 64 bit wide bus, this is considered a double rank module or Low Density module. When you take the size of each chip (32) times the number it takes to make the 64 bit bus (8), this would be how much memory is in the rank (256MB). Now since this is a double rank module, the total amount of the stick is (256x256) 512MB. You motherboard will need to accept at least 256MB in each rank. Next example. 1GB memory module. This has 16 chips on it, all labeled as 64x4. Because it is designated x 4, each chip is only 4 bit wide. You will need all 16 chips to make the 64 bit wide memory bus. Therefore this is a single rank module or High Density. Next example. 512MB memory module. It has 8 chips on it, all on one side. Each chip is labled 64x16. Now since each chip is 16 bit wide, it only takes 4 chips to make the 64 bit wide memory bus. And becasue there are 8 chips on this module, this is considered a double rank module or Low Density. Imagine that. A single sided module that is low density. It doesn't matter how the chips are arranged on the module but what type of chips are being used. Now back to the motherboard. What will work in your motherboard? Read the manual. If your motherboard has 2 slots, each slot is double ranked, and each slot will accept 1GB. This means that each slot will accept up to a 1GB double ranked or Low Density module or 512MB single rank or High Density module. __________________ Microsoft MCSA + Messaging, MVP, A+, Network+ Do you want a real Republican? HDD diagnostic tools / HDD data recovery software

04-18-2007, 12:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
dai Manager, Hardware Forums Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: west australia Posts: 35,869 OS: vista 32x ultimate retail	stickies post stickies in here __________________

05-09-2007, 11:48 AM	#12 (permalink)
dai Manager, Hardware Forums Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: west australia Posts: 35,869 OS: vista 32x ultimate retail	measuring your amp draw on your PSU and system for measuring your amp draw on your PSU and system pictorial article http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/f77/ho...-rails-130666/ __________________

06-26-2007, 05:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
TheMatt Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 13,583 OS: Windows 3.1, 98, XP Debian 4.0, Kubuntu 6.06 My System Blog Entries: 3	Re: stickies To further CJ's clarification of high density and lo density RAM: While taking out the trash at the shop I work at, I noticed a stick of 184-pin DDR RAM in the trash pile among some dead power supplies. I figured it was worth testing it out before letting it go. I took it home and was about to test it when I realized that it had only chips on one side. There is a quick way to test if a module is high or low density: For 168-pin SDRAM, 184-pin DDR SDRAM, and 240-pin DDR2 SDRAM modules greater than 256 MB: Modules with chips on only one side (8 per side) are high density. Modules with chips on both sides (4 per side) are high density. Modules with chips on only one side (4 per side) are high density. So basically, modules with 8 chips total are high density. This does not mean that if you have a module with 16 total chips you get a free pass though! It gets sticky when you get to 1 GB modules because high density modules do have 16 chips total. This is where you have to look at the configuration. High density 1 GB modules have a 128MBx4 configuration whereas a low density 1 GB modules use a 64MBx8 configuration. What did I do that high density module I brought home? I used it as a desk ornament. __________________ - Matt M - KB1OSC - Folding@Home 85015 If TSF has helped you, please consider donating. If I have stopped responding to a thread, feel free to send me a PM with a link to the thread. It is advisable to subscribe to threads so you will receive updates when replies are posted. You can subscribe to threads from the "Thread Tools" Menu. »Memtest86 »Prime95 »UBCD »SpeedFan »NHC Personal »Everest »Sandra »PC Wizard »RivaTuner »ATi Tool Click here for Useful Articles and Guides