Mulsiphix

I am building my wife a new computer. I have an Antec NeoPower 489W PSU laying around that is a few years old. I was wondering if this would be enough to power the system or if I need to find something else. If I need a new one what kind of wattage will I need to power this system? Any help would be most appreciated.

PSU: Antec NeoPower 480W PSU ( Case will include: 1x 120mm fan, 3x 120mm LED fans, 1x 200m fan)
Case: Antec 900 Mid Tower Case
Motherboard: ECS nForce 650i Intel Motherboard
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 @2.8GHz (will wait for 03/22/07 price drop before placing order)
CPU Cooler: Tuniq Tower 120 CPU Cooler
RAM: GeIL 2GB DDR2-800 Desktop Memory
Video Card: EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB Video Card
Sound Card: Onboard
Monitor: 17" Dell CRT
Hard Drives: Hitachi Deskstar 80GB SATA, Seagate Barracuda 320GB 7200RPM SATA
Extras: 1x Yate Loon 120mm Blue Led Fan (D12SL0124B) (already included in case fan totals)

linderman

The8800 video card will not run on that PSU; and "if" it did, it wouldnt for long

I suggest the Antec 650 watt Trio Power TP-3 for about $110.00 on newegg.com

thats a very good unit for a modest price; I have not seen any units under $100.00 that are worth playing with.

If you want top shelf, Seasonic S12 700 watt

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Tumbleweed36

Linderman has given you great advice. Don't try to run that baby with a 480 or the end result could be damaged components. The 650 he mentioned is the way to go if you want to avoid future headaches.

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linderman

on another note; if your antec Neo is older than about ONE year chances are you have the channel well built unit that is rebadged by Antec. The Channelwell units were plagued with bad capicators.

The newly released units are made by seasonic which are high quality.

You may get lucky and run your rig for awhile, but given its age, limited size, and in recognition of the high heat the 8800 will pump into the case, as the heat goes higher that PSU will not take kindly to such an environement while wearing both a poor internal fan cooling system and cheap faulty caps.

The chance of the PSU killing other components is very real, the biggest single culprit in defective ram is inadaquate PSU / not to mention a spike to the motherboard regulator can kill the motherboard.

I would say pass, the risk is not worth the gain when you access the whole picture. The strike count is too high to try a bunt now.

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Mulsiphix

Thank you very much for the advice guys. Since I have to buy a new PSU I was thinking of aiming for something futureproof. That is in the future I can see her grabbing a second 8800GTS when the rig eventually starts to have issues with performance in games. On the same note I can see her upgrading to 4GB of RAM and possibly a Quad Core CPU. Taking those into account, would the 650W mentioned above have enough power to cover all the mentioned upgrades?

Tumbleweed36

With what you are looking at doing, go for a minimum 750 watt unit. The Silverstone makes a real nice 750 as do several other major manufacturers. Please read the power supply information under my signature area, run the calculator and ADD 30% for bare minimum requirements. Then add some for future expansion. Also, pay attention to some of the brand names that are recommended.

Post back and one of us will try to guide you when you have done this preliminary work.

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Mulsiphix

I used the converter and browsed the Power Supply Info article. I read another one recently and while yours was more in depth I still had a good grasp on a great deal of what was being talked about. I was browsing another forum today and came across a thread where several people were giving the Thermaltake Tough Power series a lot of rave reviews.

There is a 750W on sale for $164.99 at my local Fry's. Frankly the price is right but the rails are what really matter. I've looked this over and it looks like it would be great. I know Thermaltake is a bit tough and go on their "good manufacturer" standing but they seem to have hit a home run with this series. Do you agree that this supply would be a good choice for a gaming rig?

Thermaltake Toughpower 750W PSU

Tumbleweed36

While Thermaltake is overall not a great power supply, this particular series the "toughpower" is a a home run. This is an excellent top-of-the line power supply, so go for that one. I would recommend that one highly.

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linderman

I too would use the Tough Power but in 850


if you do multiple google searches for performance reviews of systems running SLI 8800's you will soon see most all of them are done with 1000 watt PSU units.

The reviews I have seen thus far have used PC Power & cooling 1000 watt (over priced IMHO) Enermax Galaxy 1000 Tagan 1000 watt

While I believe the 1000 watt units are overkill, I definetly would not dip below 850 watts

Now; I know youre in shock, youre thinking this dude is wacked, and many tech savy sites all say a high performance rig will not use more than 350 watts no matter how you configure. I agree with that statement, however the very next assumption is were we both take hard turns away from each other. Some tech sites say is a system will only max load at 350 watts then a 550 watt or 600 watt is plenty.

WRONG; there are plenty of REAL performance reviews that demonstrate that a PSU thats 700 watts and above, are really working under acceptable stress when they DELIVER a 400 watt load. There is a huge difference in the watt rating and the actual expected day to day delivery. The watt rating tends to be the units one time personal best output.

There are numerous reviews which demsonstrate time and time again 580 watt units that shutdown at 366 watts! 480 watt units that shutdown at 277 watts

There are many reviews which have noted very irrating buzzy at mid 300 watt loads.

With the beast of a system you have "planned" for the future, you will find keeping your PSU output at the 50% or rating a very worthwhile practice!

enjoy

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Kalim

For future proofing, you should be looking at no less than 750W. Any component runs better at 30% load than at 75% stress. Depending on the deal and build you get, you should get as high as quality and power you can for a good price. The quads coming out are more powerful, faster and pull even more power when overclocked. You want to keep a PSU going for at least 18months, rather than buy like the minority hardcore overclockers and change everytime a new piece of hardware is released. Hence you need something solid and future proofed.

Preferably get a PSU with at least one 8-pin PCIe 2.0 connector, that will be used by upcoming powerful GPU's. The prices are falling and in Q4 '07 will be much lower, like a 8800GTS price now. So its possible you wish to swap over to a newer card instead of '06 released cards by then.

Mulsiphix

Would you agree Kalim that the Thermaltake Toughpower is a solid choice? Based on what I have already heard here I plan on going with the 750W and just not upgrading to the quad core in the future. Using 4 sticks of 1GB DDR2-800 RAM is for certain and I have already upgraded the system to using two 8800GTS cards.

Note: Technically I am building two systems. The only difference between the two is that mine will have two GTS 8800's and 4GB of RAM while my wifes will have one GTS 8800 and 2GB of RAM.

linderman

I would run one 8800 with a toughpower 750 watt and feel very confident


I would not try to run two on the 750 watt that needs a minimum 850

most guys that have in-depth experience building these spec rigs are using 1000 watt units like the Enermax galaxy, PC Power & Cooling Tagan
Seasonic is answering the twin 8800 call for duty with a 900 watt unit !

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Mulsiphix

I just don't have the money for an 850W or higher. I mean no disrespect but I have asked for opinions on multiple forums and you are the only person who thinks the 750W won't cover a GTS SLI setup. However, you are clearly one of the more experienced people responding to my questions so I value your opinion very much.

Are you saying that the 750W will not power the system or that it wouldn't be safe to use as it may not give me enough power or that my performance may suffer? Why do I have to get a 850W. At this point the only way I could afford a 850W would be to lose one of the 8800GTS cards which defeats the whole point. I don't want to go into my financial situation but I won't be in a place to buy either a higher wattage PSU or a second GTS card for a year or longer. It is very important that I get this right the first time around.

If I can get by with a 750W I would like to. Once again may I point out that I will have have a Conroe 4300 OC'ed to 2.8Ghz, 4 sticks of 1GB DDR2-800Mhz RAM, and two 8800 GTS card. The quadro should no longer being taken into account. However, I have added one more 120mm fan to my case.

Mulsiphix

Sorry for the double post. I wanted to replace the post above with this one as I've researched the subject a bit more.

Thermaltake Toughpower 750W
+12v: 72A
+5v: 28A
+3.3v: 30A

I used the recommended caluculator and even paid the $4 so the calculator would provide me with the required amount of Amps along the rails. Below I have posted two pictures. The first one (left) shows the system I plan on using. The only upgrade I could possibly make before building a completely brand new system would be upgrading my Conroe 6300 to a quad-core processor. The second picture (right) shows the required Amps if I were to have a quad-core.



Calculator States I Need (Conroe OC'ed CPU)
+12v: 41.1A
+5v: 18.6A
+3.3v: 10.6A

Calculator States I Need (Quad-Core X6800 CPU)
+12v: 40.2A
+5v: 18.6A
+3.3v: 10.6A

Taking into account that I have no interest, nor the financial means to afford upgrades for 1 to 1.5 years, we can rule out increasing the wattage by x% for future upgrades. So my question now is how much should I be adding for peak efficiency? With a 750W PSU and the calculator stating I only need 621W, that means 17.2% of the wattage is unused. Shouldn't 17.2% cover peak efficiency?

Note: Please note that in each picture I added 30% for capacitor aging. I'm not sure if this is necessary or what you meant by adding 30% for peak efficiency and future upgrades. That is the only thing in the calculator I am unsure if I input correctly.

As you can see the 750W Thermaltake should be more than equipped to handle my current setup and one possible future upgrade. I just don't understand why I need an 850W supply. I feel I've done my homework and I just don't understand. Could you please provide me with more information?

Note: The original post was for my wifes computer. This post has now aimed at my computer which contains the extra GTS, E6300 CPU, and two extra sticks of DDR2-800MHz RAM. Sorry for any confusion.

linderman

I can feel your frustration and I can understand your quandry.


to answer a few questions & throw in a few tid bits ?


Here is the link from the nvidea site about SLI for your cards

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_build_psu.html


second thing is capacitor aging is just that, its similar to factoring in a human being loses speed for racing as they get older, well PSU lose horsepower to the extent of 15-30% per year depending on YOUR case cooling solution. 8800's are the blast furnaces of the video card market, they really pump out the ole heat, the push alot of that heat out the back of the PSU but not all of it by a long shot. The PSU gets its fresh air (thats a joke) for the units cooling purposes from inside the case, if your case does not have awesome air flow then the interior of your case can get damn hot, it so the PSU ages faster and the ability of the PSU to put out its rated wattage is reduced. NOTHING electric