a fork on the 1000va UPS thread

[kendallt]

in that thread, Kalim said:

Originally Posted by Kalim

APC and Tripp Lite are the ones (some) with better output quality and features. The ones dubbed "Line Conditioner" are a lower quality and hence allow bad filtering and lower protection with cheaper prices. The Belkin is a no no believe me. The ones that produce good voltage regulation, EMI/RFI filtering, sine wave rather than square wave and a variable input range are the best and contain least harmonic distortions in the line (which creates heat in wires and damages electronic devices).

question on that, here at home I have a 110v feed from the grid, not 220v, just a single pair of wires from the pole to the house. Plug style fuses too! realy bites, You should see the diesel generator I have to use to run the mill and lathes in the garage! What realy bites is that I figure I can run the generator for the next 5-6 years for what it would cost me to update the power here.

it's the same as having eveything on one leg of the normal 220v service, so everything that is power sensitive, runs on it's own UPS, I use the UPS primarily as a conditioner, I don't waatch TV, so don't realy care if it shuts off, but don't want to replace it if it overheats or burns out because of low voltage.

Up till a short while ago, I'd understood that pretty much any good quality UPS would act as a conditioner to an extent (maintain a steady output in spite of input fluctuations)

recently though, I've read MANY statements that you -NEED- one which specifically states power conditioner on it, which is right in that aspect?

am I right that a UPS automatically conditions tha power? and the whole need a conditioner arguement is just a marketing ploy?

currently have one UPS that is marked as a conditioner, and haven't noticed anything to confirm either statement.

Mostly a curiousity question, nothing hanging on it

Ken

[smz]

I was also in that thread... I guess I'm partial because of my personal experience.... DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. get an APC. These all last beyond their expected life and keep going after you replace the battery. The belkins are like toys... 3/4 of the price to replace the batter so why not just buy a new one with a 3 year warranty. the replacement batteries are warrantied for one year. I like tripp lite as well but no personal experience. just Cyber Power & Belkin are personal experienced ones I have nothing positive to say about as far as longgevity and similar performance to the specs they claim.

[Kalim]

Hi Ken

Originally Posted by kendallt

Up till a short while ago, I'd understood that pretty much any good quality UPS would act as a conditioner to an extent (maintain a steady output in spite of input fluctuations)

recently though, I've read MANY statements that you -NEED- one which specifically states power conditioner on it, which is right in that aspect?

am I right that a UPS automatically conditions tha power? and the whole need a conditioner arguement is just a marketing ploy?

currently have one UPS that is marked as a conditioner, and haven't noticed anything to confirm either statement.

OK. UPS are another widely misunderstood myth, just like PSU's were before a batch of enthusiasts tried to wade through the jingles and learn how they work internally, to sum up the positive and negatives.

Since this is marketing, you have to very careful as the vendor is not the one to trust. They want the money either way, thats why they setup.

You have types of UPS and categories. Each suited best for some certain purpose. IIRC the ones to protect from a generator input are not the standard "Standby" ones. I'm unsure of this ATM, as electrical engineering was something I ventured into 15-20 years back rather than of late and don't really get much time to read-up on such stuff anymore.

With the approximated/stepped sine wave UPS, you can run your PSU safely. You don't want to use a square wave output though, thats the lowest quality signal output and bad for electronics in general past small devices (heat, resistance, wire stress, bad line noise and harmonics, immediate spikes). At one time they were good enough but thats talking '88 whereas the computer power demands and systems are no way the same as before now.

It depends on your needs. For servers, workstations or even critical desktops better UPS are needed, which are more expensive, like delta conversion or dual conversion online UPS. For normal desktops that will only need the UPS to switch off safely and not for supplying power off the battery for use for quite some time, there is no need for anything too expensive or high up the ladder. Most APC and Tripp Lite UPS will do as long as you read the specs and they have the basics. Price kind of clearly reflects the quality in these devices too.

The best UPS will cover pretty much anything going wrong with input utility power: power failure, under voltage, over voltage, frequency variations, harmonic distortions, line noise, voltage spikes and voltage sags, voltage regulating transformers on the output circuitry, EMI/RFI filtering, good efficiency of output, bypass circuitry to cut off when there's short circuit in the computer etc. This is everything a PSU also needs to never deal with nor output, as is why we have categories of PSU's and recommendations.

Many UPS out there will only cover and thus protect 3 or 4 of these and not the rest. The input voltage range they have needs to be quite broad - to cover the lower and higher voltage fluctuations that you can encounter, aswell as the frequency range. With "standby" UPS you won't have a voltage regulator on its output like found in a power supply. These are the most common ones at <600VA. This addition is found in a "Line Interactive" UPS - due to this the line interactive UPS (always online) corrects any voltage spike/sags in real-time automatically and never uses the battery, giving it a longer lifetime, as well as better output voltage regulation. With the Standby units that only bypass circuitry and switch on if something abnormal occurs in the input, the best of them cover all the points mentioned in the above paragraph, but they switch off and start using the battery rather than correct the input voltages with smaller fluctuations. The line interactive units correct the input voltage instead and hence don't cut off from the mains power and neither drain the battery.

You also need to have a UPS that states protection for EMI/RFI i.e. filtering. Well it'll go lengthy and drag on with many bits missing here and there, so the best I can say is... look at the specs of the UPS and compare it to what you need it for.

Line/power conditioners are also another section that cover some bits but may not cover some others. Think of a PSU that provides LED's but no 80+ efficiency

Take a read here, a short section and it'll guide you a little more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninter...ly#Using_a_UPS

[kendallt]

That's pretty much the info I was wondering about.

I normally have to worry about voltage sags more than spikes, and had always assumed that a good UPS would manage sags, but read a few articles that stated a need for a conditioner.

My last good ups (APC) lasted about a year and a half before it gave up, batteries are still good (good because they are the right size and rating to fit my old triumph!) just have an 'overload' light on all the time when plugged in, finding a schematic on them is hopeless, APC apparently has a tradin policy on them, but without knowing the particulars it may be easier to just pick one up local. I also prefer APC, and figure 1.5 years here is actually pretty good. Have an old 350va APC that's been running for maybe 5+ years continuous and still going strong.

I've always been a fan of 'do it right the first time', actualy it's part of the reason I got fired at my last job, main reason was because I couldn't see 6 guys driving 200 miles to do a job halfway, then driving back later to redo everything, and argued my point.


Thanks for the info guys, it's something I've wondered about, and reading the other thread brought it to mind when I was able to ask.

Thanks again!

Ken.

[smz]

I have to correct myself from your post in the original thread. You posted that you finally broke down and got the APC and I replied saying I wasn't trying to be a salesperson. But then again, I read my post here and have to withdraw the comment in the other board... It did sound like I was trying to convince you.