Possible PSU issue? HELP!!!! - Page 2

**Kalim** · 02-04-2007, 03:02 PM

I have no idea and it shouldn't blow when the main power is off but when on like you say. Yes, it should cool by 12 hours most definitely. If it gets hotter then someone has been on it or there's been a massive power surge. Without the electricity there can be no such excess heat. Is your system set to start if you press any keyboard key?

In such setups just pressing any key will startup your system (like mine).

**linderman** · 02-04-2007, 04:23 PM

if you have any "gut" feelings it may be your household current at fault, then use a power line protector

http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-Smart-UPS-10...QQcmdZViewItem

however I suspect your current antec PSU is not up to running your rig. I would suggest you get the Antec 650 watt Trio TP-3 these are 85% efficient and are very high qaulity >>>>> your current PSU is mid grade and mid level at best.

I just replaced two Antec True power 550's that were showing signs of erratic voltage on systems about equal in specs to yours. The true power is a mid level quality unit.

**Done_Fishin** · 02-04-2007, 09:45 PM

REgardless of how you power down UNLESS you actually remove the mains plug or, if fitted, switch off at the power supply, the supply DOES NOT shut off. Power is being sent through the mains to supply the standby voltage. That is why there is still a "light on" on the motherboard.
ONLY when that light goes off are you sure that you have switched off the power.

ViceVersa · 02-05-2007, 01:00 PM

How does this UPS look? I'd rather not spend a ton of money on yet another component, but ill do what i need to to prevent any more trouble

http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-SMART-UPS-70...QQcmdZViewItem

**Done_Fishin** · 02-05-2007, 01:26 PM

Whilst I admit that a UPS is a very handy item (I have one for each of my PC's) the first thing to figure out here is where the problem is with blowing POwer supplies. I, personally, am not convinced that the issue is with fluctuating voltages from the mains supply.
I can accept ( in as far as one can accept that circumstances beyond the reach of ones senses will allow) that there could be a flaw in the power supply design. It is credible to believe that 6 months agao the supplies were made better than they are being sold today, purely because manufacturers are cost cutting to maintain competibility. That could explain why one power supply lasted 6 months whilst the other didn't make it past the first day. However I am not convinced. The second Power supply requires to be returned. A report regarding the most likely reason for failure of BOTH supplies is required. That would mean that someone with knowledge & experience, who is part of the distribution network for the supply, gets involved in explaining what happened.
I have mentioned before that I am an Electronics Repair Guy, with some qualifications but more important around 30 years experience in Repairs to component level. If we have an overvoltage situation then certain components will have shorted and the fuse would have blown inside the power supply. If you open the power supply you will VOID the warranty. If the dealer / distributor opens the power supply then that is within their authority and does NOT VOID your warranty.
We are in a need to know situation .. If you get another BETTER power supply but the motherboard or installation has a problem then there is every possibility that the next power supply will go the same way as the last two!! That is not an option.
You must find the cause of the power supply failure, without any reason for doubts, before you do anything else.

btw .. getting the dealer involved is a two edged sword because if the dealer's electronics expert decides that the reason for failure is not down to design or manaufacturing cost cutting ie .. its due to overvoltage from the mains or overloading the output .. then he may decide that they are not liable to replace the Power supply under warranty.

**twajetmech** · 02-05-2007, 01:50 PM

Since you are going to have to get a new psu irregardless of what happens, why don't you get the new psu, a good Antec trio 650 for example and run the mobo out of the case on a piece of cardboard. This will allow you to check the mobo for burn marks,swollen caps etc, and check the case for misaligned standoffs, rouge screws, kinked cables, bent pins etc.

**Done_Fishin** · 02-05-2007, 02:09 PM

That is a good idea Twajetmech. Make sure though that it's run on an extension cord to a multiblock with a switch in it. At the first sign of trouble you can flip the switch. You'll need to have your senses about you ..sight, smell & hearing .. DON'T use touch except for the multiblock with your thumb on the switch. Keep away from the mobo & power supply. MAke sure it's an earthed multiblock.
Don't use taste either .. but if you can employ the "inner eye" or 6th sense ..it would be helpful .
I am not joking .. although I am trying to put over the idea that you really need to be "aware" when you do this .. only because of what has happened before. Also DO NOT walk away at any time leaving the power on and unattended. That means switch off at the block or remove the plug from wall socket whenever you are not nearby and AWAKE.
If I am making you aware that this could be dangerous then I am getting the message through. We don't know what caused the other PSU's to fail .. If you have a friend who knows how to use a voltmeter, use it to measure the voltages when in standby and when the power is on. Use the colours marked on the power supply to identify what volatge should be where.

**Kalim** · 02-05-2007, 02:18 PM

I think if you decide to get a new PSU (which you'll have to), try another one like twajetmech has suggested, and bench it for a few days with the setup Done_Fishin and twajetmech have suggested. Monitor the voltages, system and temperatures very carefully and avoid ESD or surfaces which can initiate it.
Like Done_Fishin has stated, as long as the motherboard is connected to the back mains, it will retain an electric charge running, although very low compared to its running. I can't seem to pin point out anything at this moment TBH, too many anomalies and strange occurrences.

I guess we'll have to wait and see!

ViceVersa · 02-08-2007, 06:49 PM

Will a UPS protect against the small weird mini-surges or whatever i should call them.....fluctuations.....

Is there a specific kind?

For now i am going to just unplug my computer when i turn it off.....until my UPS ships here (when i order it or w/e)

**linderman** · 02-08-2007, 07:40 PM

check that the UPS model you have has volatage correction capabilities and software to record the spikes.

we had four computers at work that all experienced random hardware problems and burnt components, it wasnt unti we could prove to the utility company with the APC software that came with the UPS units that the spikes were occuring, they swore that it couldnt or wasnt happening ?????

after showing them the computer print out from the software, then then "magically" installed a new transformer in front of our corporate office & that was the end of the siren alarms coming out of the UPS units on a steady basis all day long!

its a real pain in the butt, but I must say; had we not purchased the units who in the hell knows how many wasted dollars of equipment and lost time would have been spent.

BTW: the name of the monitoring software that came with the UPS was named Powerchute goggle search for that!

**linderman** · 02-08-2007, 07:51 PM

that UPS looked decent

ViceVersa · 02-17-2007, 04:17 PM

HEY GUYS- UPDATE!!!!!

My friend and I tried the "broken" power supply outside of the case plugged into the mobo (and only the mobo)-----no ram, no processor, no video card, etc.

Guess what? a very loud SNAP!!! happened and i saw a flash within the power supply.

wtf?

got any ideas what the heck just happened?

ViceVersa · 02-18-2007, 05:12 AM

I got in the new psu (antec trio 650), rebuilt everything, had no problems (except for the big typhoon's space taking agony-which led to a flashing motherboard standby light) fixed that though-

Now the problem is when we turn the computer on all four status led's on the motherboard come on and stay on-fans blaring and all. doesnt go any further.......

dead cpu? dead mobo?

**Done_Fishin** · 02-18-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViceVersa

HEY GUYS- UPDATE!!!!!

My friend and I tried the "broken" power supply outside of the case plugged into the mobo (and only the mobo)-----no ram, no processor, no video card, etc.

Guess what? a very loud SNAP!!! happened and i saw a flash within the power supply.

wtf?

got any ideas what the heck just happened?

I would suggest that you blew the fuse, it's the only item that usually flashes when it goes. Quite often when the current through the fuse overwhelms the rated current it will "explode". I have seen fuses "blow" when afterwards the glass tube that surrounds the wire literally dissappears! In your case the reason for failure is uncertain since normally the power supply will not start up if there are any shorts on the output rails. One can only assume that the power supply was already partly damaged from the previous "burn out" and this finally attempt to get it going was the finally straw.

afterthought, it could have been a varistor .. if you are working at 230Vac and the switch is in the 120Vac position, that could do it. They also tend to flash when they burn out and make a disparaging sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViceVersa

I got in the new psu (antec trio 650), rebuilt everything, had no problems (except for the big typhoon's space taking agony-which led to a flashing motherboard standby light) fixed that though-

Now the problem is when we turn the computer on all four status led's on the motherboard come on and stay on-fans blaring and all. doesnt go any further.......

dead cpu? dead mobo?

You have had several attempts at powering up your mobo all ending with dead PSU's. There is every possibility that the original fault did not start with the PSU as previously thought, but the mobo. If the mobo was pulling too much current but the components were only partially damaged rather than "dead" then it could account for the problems that you are suffering.
Please note that this is pure guesswork on my part since in order to make a proper analysis I would need to have all the parts in front of me. There is nothing worse than trying to diagnose at long distance ..ask your doctor ..
If that mobo is still in guarantee then RMA it. Of course I am assuming that all your efforts at testing have been done in thecorrect fashion, not forgetting anything and not accidentally putting some cables around the wrong way or fitting them to the wrong connectors. Normally it is very difficult to fit connectors in the wrong place .. but not impossible!!

ViceVersa · 05-13-2007, 08:53 AM

Well after a couple months now i have an update, but its not a good one.

So far i have updated to an antec 650w trio (i believe) and i RMA'd my mobo for a new one. Put it in, starts up, but doesnt start up. Its a DFI NF4 Lanparty Ultra-D, and it has a 4 led countdown for part recognition. It doesnt count down, the pc doesnt turn on. Fortunatly i can just turn it off by holding the power button, so im not doing any damage there. Ive tried clearing the cmos but it does nothing. The first light going off (ive researched) is for the processor. Also since im running it while its on its side currently (for ease, etc.) i noticed that there are two lights that are lighted up on my graphics card, and im not sure that they have always been there (no clue since i havent gotten my pc up in the longest time). Would it not start up due to a fried graphics card? i doubt it but, i have no clue any more. Also when my friend was checking my cpu in his friends pc, he gave it back to me and one of the pins was ever so slightly bent, i bent it back straight, and it went in fine, but would that have any effect?

I really dont know any more, this is killing me.

**linderman** · 05-13-2007, 09:45 AM

the bent cpu pin sounds ok; if it went into the socket

try swapping video cards

post back

dai · 05-13-2007, 10:26 AM

have you set it up out of the case with
cpu
ram
video
the front switches disconnected and started by touching the 2 pins the case button connects to with a small screwdriver

02-04-2007, 04:23 PM	#22 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 14,022 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	if you have any "gut" feelings it may be your household current at fault, then use a power line protector http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-Smart-UPS-10...QQcmdZViewItem however I suspect your current antec PSU is not up to running your rig. I would suggest you get the Antec 650 watt Trio TP-3 these are 85% efficient and are very high qaulity >>>>> your current PSU is mid grade and mid level at best. I just replaced two Antec True power 550's that were showing signs of erratic voltage on systems about equal in specs to yours. The true power is a mid level quality unit. __________________ If you cant be polite and friendly; then please be silent.

02-04-2007, 09:45 PM	#23 (permalink)
Done_Fishin Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brit living in Greece Posts: 5,038 OS: Win ME, Win XP Pro SP3, Ubuntu 7.04, Mepis 6.5 My System	REgardless of how you power down UNLESS you actually remove the mains plug or, if fitted, switch off at the power supply, the supply DOES NOT shut off. Power is being sent through the mains to supply the standby voltage. That is why there is still a "light on" on the motherboard. ONLY when that light goes off are you sure that you have switched off the power. __________________ D_F How to mark your thread as solved

02-05-2007, 01:26 PM	#25 (permalink)
Done_Fishin Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brit living in Greece Posts: 5,038 OS: Win ME, Win XP Pro SP3, Ubuntu 7.04, Mepis 6.5 My System	Whilst I admit that a UPS is a very handy item (I have one for each of my PC's) the first thing to figure out here is where the problem is with blowing POwer supplies. I, personally, am not convinced that the issue is with fluctuating voltages from the mains supply. I can accept ( in as far as one can accept that circumstances beyond the reach of ones senses will allow) that there could be a flaw in the power supply design. It is credible to believe that 6 months agao the supplies were made better than they are being sold today, purely because manufacturers are cost cutting to maintain competibility. That could explain why one power supply lasted 6 months whilst the other didn't make it past the first day. However I am not convinced. The second Power supply requires to be returned. A report regarding the most likely reason for failure of BOTH supplies is required. That would mean that someone with knowledge & experience, who is part of the distribution network for the supply, gets involved in explaining what happened. I have mentioned before that I am an Electronics Repair Guy, with some qualifications but more important around 30 years experience in Repairs to component level. If we have an overvoltage situation then certain components will have shorted and the fuse would have blown inside the power supply. If you open the power supply you will VOID the warranty. If the dealer / distributor opens the power supply then that is within their authority and does NOT VOID your warranty. We are in a need to know situation .. If you get another BETTER power supply but the motherboard or installation has a problem then there is every possibility that the next power supply will go the same way as the last two!! That is not an option. You must find the cause of the power supply failure, without any reason for doubts, before you do anything else. btw .. getting the dealer involved is a two edged sword because if the dealer's electronics expert decides that the reason for failure is not down to design or manaufacturing cost cutting ie .. its due to overvoltage from the mains or overloading the output .. then he may decide that they are not liable to replace the Power supply under warranty. __________________ D_F How to mark your thread as solved Last edited by Done_Fishin : 02-05-2007 at 01:31 PM.

02-05-2007, 01:50 PM	#26 (permalink)
twajetmech Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: LGA, NYC Posts: 2,380 OS: XP-Pro Sp2 & XP-Pro Sp2 Tablet Edition, Vista Ultimate My System	Since you are going to have to get a new psu irregardless of what happens, why don't you get the new psu, a good Antec trio 650 for example and run the mobo out of the case on a piece of cardboard. This will allow you to check the mobo for burn marks,swollen caps etc, and check the case for misaligned standoffs, rouge screws, kinked cables, bent pins etc. __________________ PSU Selection/Info // Bench test // Thermal Paste // Memory Selection // Bios Beep Codes // CPU-Z// Posting System Specs

02-05-2007, 02:09 PM	#27 (permalink)
Done_Fishin Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brit living in Greece Posts: 5,038 OS: Win ME, Win XP Pro SP3, Ubuntu 7.04, Mepis 6.5 My System	That is a good idea Twajetmech. Make sure though that it's run on an extension cord to a multiblock with a switch in it. At the first sign of trouble you can flip the switch. You'll need to have your senses about you ..sight, smell & hearing .. DON'T use touch except for the multiblock with your thumb on the switch. Keep away from the mobo & power supply. MAke sure it's an earthed multiblock. Don't use taste either .. but if you can employ the "inner eye" or 6th sense ..it would be helpful . I am not joking .. although I am trying to put over the idea that you really need to be "aware" when you do this .. only because of what has happened before. Also DO NOT walk away at any time leaving the power on and unattended. That means switch off at the block or remove the plug from wall socket whenever you are not nearby and AWAKE. If I am making you aware that this could be dangerous then I am getting the message through. We don't know what caused the other PSU's to fail .. If you have a friend who knows how to use a voltmeter, use it to measure the voltages when in standby and when the power is on. Use the colours marked on the power supply to identify what volatge should be where. __________________ D_F How to mark your thread as solved Last edited by Done_Fishin : 02-05-2007 at 02:10 PM.

02-04-2007, 03:02 PM	#21 (permalink)
Kalim Roaming To Help Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,609 OS: Many	I have no idea and it shouldn't blow when the main power is off but when on like you say. Yes, it should cool by 12 hours most definitely. If it gets hotter then someone has been on it or there's been a massive power surge. Without the electricity there can be no such excess heat. Is your system set to start if you press any keyboard key? In such setups just pressing any key will startup your system (like mine).

02-05-2007, 01:00 PM	#24 (permalink)
ViceVersa Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20 OS: XP	How does this UPS look? I'd rather not spend a ton of money on yet another component, but ill do what i need to to prevent any more trouble http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-SMART-UPS-70...QQcmdZViewItem

02-05-2007, 02:18 PM	#28 (permalink)
Kalim Roaming To Help Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,609 OS: Many	I think if you decide to get a new PSU (which you'll have to), try another one like twajetmech has suggested, and bench it for a few days with the setup Done_Fishin and twajetmech have suggested. Monitor the voltages, system and temperatures very carefully and avoid ESD or surfaces which can initiate it. Like Done_Fishin has stated, as long as the motherboard is connected to the back mains, it will retain an electric charge running, although very low compared to its running. I can't seem to pin point out anything at this moment TBH, too many anomalies and strange occurrences. I guess we'll have to wait and see!

02-08-2007, 06:49 PM	#29 (permalink)
ViceVersa Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20 OS: XP	Will a UPS protect against the small weird mini-surges or whatever i should call them.....fluctuations..... Is there a specific kind? For now i am going to just unplug my computer when i turn it off.....until my UPS ships here (when i order it or w/e)

02-08-2007, 07:40 PM	#30 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 14,022 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	check that the UPS model you have has volatage correction capabilities and software to record the spikes. we had four computers at work that all experienced random hardware problems and burnt components, it wasnt unti we could prove to the utility company with the APC software that came with the UPS units that the spikes were occuring, they swore that it couldnt or wasnt happening ????? after showing them the computer print out from the software, then then "magically" installed a new transformer in front of our corporate office & that was the end of the siren alarms coming out of the UPS units on a steady basis all day long! its a real pain in the butt, but I must say; had we not purchased the units who in the hell knows how many wasted dollars of equipment and lost time would have been spent. BTW: the name of the monitoring software that came with the UPS was named Powerchute goggle search for that! __________________ If you cant be polite and friendly; then please be silent.

02-08-2007, 07:51 PM	#31 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 14,022 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	that UPS looked decent __________________ If you cant be polite and friendly; then please be silent.

02-17-2007, 04:17 PM	#32 (permalink)
ViceVersa Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20 OS: XP	HEY GUYS- UPDATE!!!!! My friend and I tried the "broken" power supply outside of the case plugged into the mobo (and only the mobo)-----no ram, no processor, no video card, etc. Guess what? a very loud SNAP!!! happened and i saw a flash within the power supply. wtf? got any ideas what the heck just happened?

02-18-2007, 05:12 AM	#33 (permalink)
ViceVersa Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20 OS: XP	I got in the new psu (antec trio 650), rebuilt everything, had no problems (except for the big typhoon's space taking agony-which led to a flashing motherboard standby light) fixed that though- Now the problem is when we turn the computer on all four status led's on the motherboard come on and stay on-fans blaring and all. doesnt go any further....... dead cpu? dead mobo?

05-13-2007, 08:53 AM	#35 (permalink)
ViceVersa Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 20 OS: XP	Re: Possible PSU issue? HELP!!!! Well after a couple months now i have an update, but its not a good one. So far i have updated to an antec 650w trio (i believe) and i RMA'd my mobo for a new one. Put it in, starts up, but doesnt start up. Its a DFI NF4 Lanparty Ultra-D, and it has a 4 led countdown for part recognition. It doesnt count down, the pc doesnt turn on. Fortunatly i can just turn it off by holding the power button, so im not doing any damage there. Ive tried clearing the cmos but it does nothing. The first light going off (ive researched) is for the processor. Also since im running it while its on its side currently (for ease, etc.) i noticed that there are two lights that are lighted up on my graphics card, and im not sure that they have always been there (no clue since i havent gotten my pc up in the longest time). Would it not start up due to a fried graphics card? i doubt it but, i have no clue any more. Also when my friend was checking my cpu in his friends pc, he gave it back to me and one of the pins was ever so slightly bent, i bent it back straight, and it went in fine, but would that have any effect? I really dont know any more, this is killing me.

05-13-2007, 09:45 AM	#36 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 14,022 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	Re: Possible PSU issue? HELP!!!! the bent cpu pin sounds ok; if it went into the socket try swapping video cards post back __________________ If you cant be polite and friendly; then please be silent.

05-13-2007, 10:26 AM	#37 (permalink)
dai Manager, Hardware Forums Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: west australia Posts: 41,784 OS: vista 32x ultimate retail	Re: Possible PSU issue? HELP!!!! have you set it up out of the case with cpu ram video the front switches disconnected and started by touching the 2 pins the case button connects to with a small screwdriver __________________