System Hangs intermittently - I'm stumped - Page 2

**Doby** · 10-19-2006, 04:36 PM

3 passes is really only a quick check, you may have read where some recommend this but seeing as yours is a intermittent and isolated problem you should run 8 hours each stick to be sure.

I have to check the psu specs will get back to you on that

BlackBeauty · 10-19-2006, 04:56 PM

thanks doby :) my test on one stick of RAM went successfully - it ran overnight (~10 hours) with no errors.

however this morning before i ran out the door for work, I switched over and put the other stick in by itself but the pc did not boot up completely - instead, it emitted a continuous series of 'long', 1-2 second beeps....?

**Doby** · 10-19-2006, 05:07 PM

Remove that suspect stick out of the computer and run the computer normally with the known good stick in and see if the problem with freezing contiues

BlackBeauty · 10-20-2006, 02:00 PM

okay, found something.

i mustn't have had that last stick properly seated on the m/b 'cos the beeping was a one-off....but i have found the following:

memtest run on both sticks and each stick individually have been okay (40+ passes, 0 errors) BUT when I do the single-stick tests, this is the only the case when the RAM is in 1 of the 2 bays on my m/b

I have 2 bays - a green and orange one. The green one works OK.
However, if the single RAM stick is placed in the orange bay, the computer boots but I have no display - ie., the monitor LED stays orange instead of the usual green....

What do you guys reckon? Is this a motherboard issue? Perhaps I can get the supplier to put a new m/b in....?

**Doby** · 10-20-2006, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Install at least one DIMM module on the slots. Memory modules can be installed on the slots in
any order.

I copied that directly from your manual, this tells me that the stick should run in either dimm, but if the ram passed memtest it should be ok. I am not sure why it won't run in the orange slot on some boards this is a limitation but the way I understand the manual it should. This would be a good question to firer off a email to msi tech support.

In the mean time run prime again, run the torture test but this time check
"in place large fft's(max heat, power consumption)"

Run for 30 minutes or so and report your temps and voltages while it is running. I want to see if the voltages fall off at all.

In looking up the psu specs other than you have posted I have found that this psu comes with a case, thats about it no other info available, I suspect you are under powered with the video card you are running. Nvida recommends with pci-e that 12v rail should be 26A yours is only 20A.

Please read this in its entirety it will give you a better understanding on what I am trying to say

http://www.techsupportforum.com/showthread.php?t=107466

I am thinking that the psu does not have enough amps on the 12v to properly supply the video card, this is what I suspected in the beginning but in your very first post you said it happens during "normal activities" and I would think it should happen when the card is stressed such as playing a game. This is why all the tests, to try and eliminate other possibilities so if you could try this last test I am hoping it will revel something

BlackBeauty · 10-20-2006, 11:46 PM

Excellent, ran Prime Torture Test again (from Windows with nothing running), this time for large FFT's, here are my voltages and temps over a 35 minute period (hope it's readable - if not, I can easily post the XLS of the results so just let me know :) ):

Quote:

Time
T=0 T=10 T=15 T=20 T=25 T=30 T=35
Temperatures
CPU 39C/103F44/112 45/113 45/113 45/113 45/113 45/113
SYS 34C/94F 39/103 39/103 40/104 40/104 39/103 40/104
AUX 32C/90F 39/94 32/92 33/92 34/94 34/92 33/92
HD0 37C/99F 37/99 38/101 38/101 38/101 38/101 38/101

Voltages
VcoreA 1.32V 1.24 1.23 1.24 1.28 1.26 1.24
+3.3V 3.31V 3.28 3.28 3.3 3.3 3.28 3.3
+12V 12.00V 11.9 12 11.8 12 12 11.9
+VBAT 3.17V 3.15 3.17 3.17 3.15 3.15 3.15

I also had a thorough read of the link you provided (a big thankyou). I understand now what you mean about the importance of the Amps on the +12V rail. They say it should be 26A for an SLI35A - is this a type of video card comparable to mine?

Do you know if I have (or need) active PFC? Or should be concerned about multiple 12V rails?

Also, I do remember the guy at the store saying something about the 20pin vs 24 pin cables - he said something about mine being a 20pin and a 24pin and he put an adapter in to make use of the other 4 pins (which he thought had solved the problem initially)....

BlackBeauty · 10-21-2006, 04:14 AM

i'm starting to wonder whether it's a software issue? maybe i should just reinstall windows or something? tonight i was trying to upload photos to kodakgallery.com using their 'easy upload tool' which runs via activex - every time, it would get thru 7 or 8 photos then the pc would hang (as per normal)...

i also notice that even after the pc hangs, although everything is frozen (mouse, keyboard, display), the cd/dvd drive can still be opened/closed...

**Doby** · 10-21-2006, 04:09 PM

All your temps and voltages are fine even under stress but I am still leary of your psu because these things can cause explained events, more on that later because you need to try some other things since your hardware appears to be strong.

1) Turn down hardware acceleration, Start>control panel>display>settings tab>advance button on bottom>troubleshoot tab. Turn it down to none, if this stops the freeze then turn it up one notch at a time till the freeze starts again then back off one notch. I built a system with a biostar board that had a problem such as this but not as often and this worked, ended up with acceleration half way down.

2) Check your video driver version, start>control panel>system>hardware tab>device manager button. Open display adapters and double click your video card then driver tab. Tell us what version you are running?
You may want to check the nvida website and if there is a later version try them but follow the instructions on removal of the old driver, any questions on this just ask.

I admirer your persistence on this and thats exactly what it takes, as you can see we sorta moved to the software side of things, hope something turns up

BlackBeauty · 10-21-2006, 05:11 PM

Thankyou so much Doby - I am also incredibly grateful for your continued assistance and attention to the problems I'm having. I really appreciate your help here on the Tech Support Forums. I can't wait until this is all sorted - then I'll be able to give back to the forums.

Re: #1, I've turned hardware acceleration off. 'Enable Write Combining' is still checked. Interesting experience you had their with your Biostar board...

Re: #2, my driver details are:
Driver Name: NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT
Driver Provider: NVIDIA
Driver Date: 11/08/2006
Driver Version: 9.1.4.7

Quote:

When it arrived, it was running ForceWare 91.31. I have since upgraded it to use ForceWare 91.47 but still experience these problems.

I'll keep using it today and report back on the frequency of hangs.

**Doby** · 10-21-2006, 07:32 PM

Your welcome,it sure will be great when you get your problem fixed and when time permits offer some advice, thats what its all about and I am sure you have learned somethings that you can share.

We need to do one thing at a time to see what works but if the acceleration thing don't I would like you to review this about video drivers from Indoril one of our techs here at TSF. http://www.techsupportforum.com/showthread.php?t=117742

Since video drivers can cause system freeze I think this is the next thing to consider, I see you have already looked into this and upgraded the driver but Indoril recommends the 84.21 for max stability so if there is no improvement then try them.

BlackBeauty · 10-21-2006, 08:08 PM

This is great Doby - I've been using the PC normally for at least 2 hours with no hangs!! I may try upping the acceleration or just bite the bullet and uninstall/install 84.21.

What an obscure problem this has been to track down!

I'll report back soon and hope you're having a great weekend. :)

**Doby** · 10-21-2006, 08:22 PM

I guess we are making progress, I've been pulling all the tricks out of the hat on this one, hope you and your's are having a great weekend too!

BlackBeauty · 10-22-2006, 02:54 AM

when i set the hardware acceleration to anything but none/off, it still hangs.

when it is set to none, i can continue normal operation of the PC with no issues whatsoever...

next, i'll try the earlier (stabler?) driver version, then try to turn hardware acceleration back on...

**Doby** · 10-22-2006, 07:20 PM

BlackBeauty you really got this narrowed down now, good job with your troubleshooting, hardware acceleration is directly tied to the video card and its drivers so yes try the earlier version of the drivers. I am keeping my fingers crossed

10-19-2006, 04:36 PM	#21 (permalink)
Doby Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central PA (USA) Posts: 6,996 OS: XP sp2/ Vista	3 passes is really only a quick check, you may have read where some recommend this but seeing as yours is a intermittent and isolated problem you should run 8 hours each stick to be sure. I have to check the psu specs will get back to you on that __________________ Would you like to help TSF fight cancer and other diseases??? JOIN TEAM TSF

10-19-2006, 05:07 PM	#23 (permalink)
Doby Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central PA (USA) Posts: 6,996 OS: XP sp2/ Vista	Remove that suspect stick out of the computer and run the computer normally with the known good stick in and see if the problem with freezing contiues __________________ Would you like to help TSF fight cancer and other diseases??? JOIN TEAM TSF

10-20-2006, 02:00 PM	#24 (permalink)
BlackBeauty Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 20 OS: XP Pro	okay, found something... okay, found something. i mustn't have had that last stick properly seated on the m/b 'cos the beeping was a one-off....but i have found the following: memtest run on both sticks and each stick individually have been okay (40+ passes, 0 errors) BUT when I do the single-stick tests, this is the only the case when the RAM is in 1 of the 2 bays on my m/b I have 2 bays - a green and orange one. The green one works OK. However, if the single RAM stick is placed in the orange bay, the computer boots but I have no display - ie., the monitor LED stays orange instead of the usual green.... What do you guys reckon? Is this a motherboard issue? Perhaps I can get the supplier to put a new m/b in....?

10-21-2006, 04:09 PM	#28 (permalink)
Doby Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central PA (USA) Posts: 6,996 OS: XP sp2/ Vista	All your temps and voltages are fine even under stress but I am still leary of your psu because these things can cause explained events, more on that later because you need to try some other things since your hardware appears to be strong. 1) Turn down hardware acceleration, Start>control panel>display>settings tab>advance button on bottom>troubleshoot tab. Turn it down to none, if this stops the freeze then turn it up one notch at a time till the freeze starts again then back off one notch. I built a system with a biostar board that had a problem such as this but not as often and this worked, ended up with acceleration half way down. 2) Check your video driver version, start>control panel>system>hardware tab>device manager button. Open display adapters and double click your video card then driver tab. Tell us what version you are running? You may want to check the nvida website and if there is a later version try them but follow the instructions on removal of the old driver, any questions on this just ask. I admirer your persistence on this and thats exactly what it takes, as you can see we sorta moved to the software side of things, hope something turns up __________________ Would you like to help TSF fight cancer and other diseases??? JOIN TEAM TSF

10-21-2006, 07:32 PM	#30 (permalink)
Doby Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central PA (USA) Posts: 6,996 OS: XP sp2/ Vista	Your welcome,it sure will be great when you get your problem fixed and when time permits offer some advice, thats what its all about and I am sure you have learned somethings that you can share. We need to do one thing at a time to see what works but if the acceleration thing don't I would like you to review this about video drivers from Indoril one of our techs here at TSF. http://www.techsupportforum.com/showthread.php?t=117742 Since video drivers can cause system freeze I think this is the next thing to consider, I see you have already looked into this and upgraded the driver but Indoril recommends the 84.21 for max stability so if there is no improvement then try them. __________________ Would you like to help TSF fight cancer and other diseases??? JOIN TEAM TSF

10-19-2006, 04:56 PM	#22 (permalink)
BlackBeauty Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 20 OS: XP Pro	thanks doby :) my test on one stick of RAM went successfully - it ran overnight (~10 hours) with no errors. however this morning before i ran out the door for work, I switched over and put the other stick in by itself but the pc did not boot up completely - instead, it emitted a continuous series of 'long', 1-2 second beeps....?

10-21-2006, 04:14 AM	#27 (permalink)
BlackBeauty Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 20 OS: XP Pro	i'm starting to wonder whether it's a software issue? maybe i should just reinstall windows or something? tonight i was trying to upload photos to kodakgallery.com using their 'easy upload tool' which runs via activex - every time, it would get thru 7 or 8 photos then the pc would hang (as per normal)... i also notice that even after the pc hangs, although everything is frozen (mouse, keyboard, display), the cd/dvd drive can still be opened/closed...

10-21-2006, 08:08 PM	#31 (permalink)
BlackBeauty Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 20 OS: XP Pro	This is great Doby - I've been using the PC normally for at least 2 hours with no hangs!! I may try upping the acceleration or just bite the bullet and uninstall/install 84.21. What an obscure problem this has been to track down! I'll report back soon and hope you're having a great weekend. :)

10-21-2006, 08:22 PM	#32 (permalink)
Doby Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central PA (USA) Posts: 6,996 OS: XP sp2/ Vista	I guess we are making progress, I've been pulling all the tricks out of the hat on this one, hope you and your's are having a great weekend too! __________________ Would you like to help TSF fight cancer and other diseases??? JOIN TEAM TSF

10-22-2006, 02:54 AM	#33 (permalink)
BlackBeauty Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 20 OS: XP Pro	when i set the hardware acceleration to anything but none/off, it still hangs. when it is set to none, i can continue normal operation of the PC with no issues whatsoever... next, i'll try the earlier (stabler?) driver version, then try to turn hardware acceleration back on...

10-22-2006, 07:20 PM	#34 (permalink)
Doby Moderator Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central PA (USA) Posts: 6,996 OS: XP sp2/ Vista	BlackBeauty you really got this narrowed down now, good job with your troubleshooting, hardware acceleration is directly tied to the video card and its drivers so yes try the earlier version of the drivers. I am keeping my fingers crossed __________________ Would you like to help TSF fight cancer and other diseases??? JOIN TEAM TSF