Water Cooling problems - a sitrep - Page 2

Epirb · 08-01-2009, 11:22 AM

Hi Donald,

Today was the day to strip and clean the reserator reservoir.

Looks like ours are two of a kind!

What has happened inside the unit is that the anodising on the alloy has failed, in some cases it has blistered, the warm coolant has then got to the bare alloy and started to corrode in a big way.

I have topped up the http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/g...irb/Reserator/ album with pictures of the clean up, they are very similar to yours.

EG:

I am really interested to hear what your correspondence throws up, if it is the case that they are all like this after less than a year then we do not have a value for money product here!

If it is a case that there are a bad batch out there with failing anodising then penny to a pound ours are from the same batch. Mine has a sticker on the bottom which reads '2007 JB2278'

One thing to mention is that I have a sailing background and the corrosion we are seeing is identical to salt water on damaged anodised alloy spars. This is exacerbated by galvanic action when dissimilar metals are present (Electrolysis)

It seems that the Zalman coolant is a conductive corrosive!

Where to next? Well, will be interested to hear where you end up with your enquiries and maybe then I will follow on behind.

What we really need to do is remove the reservoirs and get them shot blasted and reanodised.....probably not going going to happen in my case. However, now the corrosion has started there is no going back and it will just accelerate as more and more anodising comes off.

I think that I am going to look at other non conductive coolants that I know are available.

What do you think?

All the best, Epirb

DonaldG · 08-03-2009, 12:30 PM

So far, I am no closer to finding the actual cause. Electrolyses is a favourite idea at the moment.

For the time being, I am using Feser One Cooling fluid which is ready mixed with distilled water. I got mine from Chilled PC. I ordered some on a Friday afternoon & it was delivered on Saturday morning!

Many folk I have talked to and many of those on TSF use ordinary water and car antifreeze with no problems. I don't necessarily advocate the use of tap water myself.

I think that the fact that you bought it off ebay, I doubt if you will be able to claim on anyone other than the eBay seller. If the reservoir is too corroded to salvage, is it possible to replace it with a plastic box? A 0.9 litre Really Useful Box from Rymans or WH Smiths comes to mind. (I use the 3 litre boxed as storage of all my CDs.)

If you can claim on the seller, then I would suggest getting a new one wher you would have a proper warranty. If you can do that, I suggest QuietPC would be a good place to go.

Other than being blocked, your water block looks in good shape.

Epirb · 08-03-2009, 02:41 PM

I don't think that it is worth me pursuing Zalman either, however, if they were to acknowledge that yours is a faulty unit then I would be very interested to know if ours are part of the same batch.

I am not pursuing the Ebay seller. I think that he sold it to me in good faith and though it is not in the 'excellent' condition that he described it I don't think he was misrepresenting it.

I have actually been in quite a lot of correspondence with him and he has sent me a copy of his receipt for the unit. He bought it from Ebuyer in June last year. He used it for 8 months and was disappointed with its performance so he gave up on it, just getting round to moving it on now.

I have bought a bit of a dog but the question remains, is it just this one or do they all do this?

I am going to install when I get round to this new build and put in an in line filter. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts!

yep water block is fine, coating not breached like yours.

DonaldG · 08-05-2009, 06:01 AM

Epirb - check your PM & email...

tidzapete · 08-06-2009, 09:21 PM

Hi, I am having exactly the same problem and I used distilled, not ionised water.

On the last 4 occasions the alarm has gone off I have run on "manual" for a while and the had to empty the reserator, rinse out and clear away the blue bits.

Tonight I've reached the point where even after doing this the reserator will not start so I'm about to start dismantling it and am certain I'll find exactly the same problem.

I suspect the cause is that the additive creates the problem (It is a bit too much of a coincidence that the offending lumps are the same colour as the additive). I don't know what metals are around in the system including joins and welds. This sort of corrosion looks just like a galvanic reaction. If this is the case it may be possible to slow it down by flushing out all the addative and just using plain water but the bad news is that without a redesign from Xalman my processor is going to continue to get fried and close the system down if I don't happen to be around to hear the alarm.

The whole situation is completely unsatisfactory, Overclockers should be more helpful than hiding behind a warranty statement and Xalman should have the courtesy to respond. If it turns out to be a common problem all we can do is make known our opinion of these suppliers and move on.. life's too short to try sorting out crap customer service (because the crap ones never actually listen!).

tidzapete · 08-06-2009, 09:26 PM

I'm a newby to forums and have just re-read the thread and discovered EPIRBS comments. I too am from a sailing background and agree 100 per cent with his views on electrolysis.

hegjon · 08-20-2009, 12:32 PM

Hi, looks like I got the same problem with Reserator1 V2.
The water stops in the CPU-block, and there are small blue dots in the tubes. The blocks and tubes are covered inside by something blue. I haven't opened the CPU-block because of the warranty.
I suspect that the anti-corrosion coolant cause the problems.

Epirb · 09-26-2009, 12:01 PM

Thought that I would just check out on this thread, let you know what my personal thoughts are and hopefully help those that come to search in the future.

Remember, these views are mine only but I shall lay out what I think I have found.

Quiet PC were more than helpful to me and sent me out a good few bits and pieces to get me going and help out, amazing since I not only didn't buy the kit from them but also bought it second hand. This is what I think I found:

There is no difference between deionised and distilled water.

The anodising on the reservoir on the XT is thin and not up to the job of protecting the alloy from warm circulated water.

The principal culprit is the Zalman OEM coolant, the blue comes out of the coolant and crystallises in the system leading to sludge and lumps which clogs the cooling blocks and attaches to the bare alloy. I don't know if that add to the corrosion but personally I think it does.

For people like me who want silent computing, are prepared to do a bit of homework and fiddling, the Zalman Reserator XT is a beautifully engineered elegant solution. For committed overclockers it is not where it is at!

As I say, just my thoughts, hope they are of use to passers by, thank you for every ones help, especially you Donald,

All the best, Epirb.

Epirb · 10-02-2009, 03:48 PM

Distilled water.....Deionised water.....it's a red herring.

Don't use tap water.

tidzapete · 10-08-2009, 10:05 PM

I have now dismantled my system and have identical problems to everyone else.. no point in posting photos they look identical.

There is no question that this is galvanic corrosion.

If you look at the pictures of some early Reserators the tank appears to be stainless steel and the fittings were probably brass, this is a lethal combination if you also have a conductive solution. Zalmann obviously identified this problem and modified the tank to a poorly galvanised version. This reduced the problem in the tank but they didn't modify the cooling blocks which are still stainless and brass and are now the focal point for the galvanic reaction.

I have now cleaned things up and bought 2 litres of non conductive coolant. Short of trying to find a completely stainless cooling block - or getting Zalmann to modify and replace theirs there is no other fix to this problem.

Only time will tell now.

08-01-2009, 11:22 AM	#21 (permalink)
Epirb Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 20 OS: XP	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep Hi Donald, Today was the day to strip and clean the reserator reservoir. Looks like ours are two of a kind! What has happened inside the unit is that the anodising on the alloy has failed, in some cases it has blistered, the warm coolant has then got to the bare alloy and started to corrode in a big way. I have topped up the http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/g...irb/Reserator/ album with pictures of the clean up, they are very similar to yours. EG: I am really interested to hear what your correspondence throws up, if it is the case that they are all like this after less than a year then we do not have a value for money product here! If it is a case that there are a bad batch out there with failing anodising then penny to a pound ours are from the same batch. Mine has a sticker on the bottom which reads '2007 JB2278' One thing to mention is that I have a sailing background and the corrosion we are seeing is identical to salt water on damaged anodised alloy spars. This is exacerbated by galvanic action when dissimilar metals are present (Electrolysis) It seems that the Zalman coolant is a conductive corrosive! Where to next? Well, will be interested to hear where you end up with your enquiries and maybe then I will follow on behind. What we really need to do is remove the reservoirs and get them shot blasted and reanodised.....probably not going going to happen in my case. However, now the corrosion has started there is no going back and it will just accelerate as more and more anodising comes off. I think that I am going to look at other non conductive coolants that I know are available. What do you think? All the best, Epirb

08-03-2009, 12:30 PM	#22 (permalink)
DonaldG Manager Home Support, Assistant Manager Articles Team Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Somerset, UK Posts: 10,164 OS: XPsp2 Laptop & Vista Ultimate Desktop My System Blog Entries: 1	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep So far, I am no closer to finding the actual cause. Electrolyses is a favourite idea at the moment. For the time being, I am using Feser One Cooling fluid which is ready mixed with distilled water. I got mine from Chilled PC. I ordered some on a Friday afternoon & it was delivered on Saturday morning! Many folk I have talked to and many of those on TSF use ordinary water and car antifreeze with no problems. I don't necessarily advocate the use of tap water myself. I think that the fact that you bought it off ebay, I doubt if you will be able to claim on anyone other than the eBay seller. If the reservoir is too corroded to salvage, is it possible to replace it with a plastic box? A 0.9 litre Really Useful Box from Rymans or WH Smiths comes to mind. (I use the 3 litre boxed as storage of all my CDs.) If you can claim on the seller, then I would suggest getting a new one wher you would have a proper warranty. If you can do that, I suggest QuietPC would be a good place to go. Other than being blocked, your water block looks in good shape. __________________ . Lest we forget... "They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old; Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them." Submit New Articles Here TSF's Photographer's Corner . Last edited by DonaldG; 08-03-2009 at 12:42 PM.

08-03-2009, 02:41 PM	#23 (permalink)
Epirb Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 20 OS: XP	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep I don't think that it is worth me pursuing Zalman either, however, if they were to acknowledge that yours is a faulty unit then I would be very interested to know if ours are part of the same batch. I am not pursuing the Ebay seller. I think that he sold it to me in good faith and though it is not in the 'excellent' condition that he described it I don't think he was misrepresenting it. I have actually been in quite a lot of correspondence with him and he has sent me a copy of his receipt for the unit. He bought it from Ebuyer in June last year. He used it for 8 months and was disappointed with its performance so he gave up on it, just getting round to moving it on now. I have bought a bit of a dog but the question remains, is it just this one or do they all do this? I am going to install when I get round to this new build and put in an in line filter. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts! yep water block is fine, coating not breached like yours. Last edited by Epirb; 08-03-2009 at 02:47 PM.

08-05-2009, 06:01 AM	#24 (permalink)
DonaldG Manager Home Support, Assistant Manager Articles Team Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Somerset, UK Posts: 10,164 OS: XPsp2 Laptop & Vista Ultimate Desktop My System Blog Entries: 1	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep Epirb - check your PM & email... __________________ . Lest we forget... "They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old; Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them." Submit New Articles Here TSF's Photographer's Corner .

08-06-2009, 09:21 PM	#25 (permalink)
tidzapete Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3 OS: Vista 64 Ultimate	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep Hi, I am having exactly the same problem and I used distilled, not ionised water. On the last 4 occasions the alarm has gone off I have run on "manual" for a while and the had to empty the reserator, rinse out and clear away the blue bits. Tonight I've reached the point where even after doing this the reserator will not start so I'm about to start dismantling it and am certain I'll find exactly the same problem. I suspect the cause is that the additive creates the problem (It is a bit too much of a coincidence that the offending lumps are the same colour as the additive). I don't know what metals are around in the system including joins and welds. This sort of corrosion looks just like a galvanic reaction. If this is the case it may be possible to slow it down by flushing out all the addative and just using plain water but the bad news is that without a redesign from Xalman my processor is going to continue to get fried and close the system down if I don't happen to be around to hear the alarm. The whole situation is completely unsatisfactory, Overclockers should be more helpful than hiding behind a warranty statement and Xalman should have the courtesy to respond. If it turns out to be a common problem all we can do is make known our opinion of these suppliers and move on.. life's too short to try sorting out crap customer service (because the crap ones never actually listen!).

08-06-2009, 09:26 PM	#26 (permalink)
tidzapete Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3 OS: Vista 64 Ultimate	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep I'm a newby to forums and have just re-read the thread and discovered EPIRBS comments. I too am from a sailing background and agree 100 per cent with his views on electrolysis.

08-20-2009, 12:32 PM	#27 (permalink)
hegjon Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1 OS: Ubuntu	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep Hi, looks like I got the same problem with Reserator1 V2. The water stops in the CPU-block, and there are small blue dots in the tubes. The blocks and tubes are covered inside by something blue. I haven't opened the CPU-block because of the warranty. I suspect that the anti-corrosion coolant cause the problems.

09-26-2009, 12:01 PM	#28 (permalink)
Epirb Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 20 OS: XP	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep Thought that I would just check out on this thread, let you know what my personal thoughts are and hopefully help those that come to search in the future. Remember, these views are mine only but I shall lay out what I think I have found. Quiet PC were more than helpful to me and sent me out a good few bits and pieces to get me going and help out, amazing since I not only didn't buy the kit from them but also bought it second hand. This is what I think I found: There is no difference between deionised and distilled water. The anodising on the reservoir on the XT is thin and not up to the job of protecting the alloy from warm circulated water. The principal culprit is the Zalman OEM coolant, the blue comes out of the coolant and crystallises in the system leading to sludge and lumps which clogs the cooling blocks and attaches to the bare alloy. I don't know if that add to the corrosion but personally I think it does. For people like me who want silent computing, are prepared to do a bit of homework and fiddling, the Zalman Reserator XT is a beautifully engineered elegant solution. For committed overclockers it is not where it is at! As I say, just my thoughts, hope they are of use to passers by, thank you for every ones help, especially you Donald, All the best, Epirb.

10-02-2009, 03:48 PM	#29 (permalink)
Epirb Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 20 OS: XP	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep Distilled water.....Deionised water.....it's a red herring. Don't use tap water.

10-08-2009, 10:05 PM	#30 (permalink)
tidzapete Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3 OS: Vista 64 Ultimate	Re: Water Cooling problems - a sitrep I have now dismantled my system and have identical problems to everyone else.. no point in posting photos they look identical. There is no question that this is galvanic corrosion. If you look at the pictures of some early Reserators the tank appears to be stainless steel and the fittings were probably brass, this is a lethal combination if you also have a conductive solution. Zalmann obviously identified this problem and modified the tank to a poorly galvanised version. This reduced the problem in the tank but they didn't modify the cooling blocks which are still stainless and brass and are now the focal point for the galvanic reaction. I have now cleaned things up and bought 2 litres of non conductive coolant. Short of trying to find a completely stainless cooling block - or getting Zalmann to modify and replace theirs there is no other fix to this problem. Only time will tell now.