2pistolpacker

At least your cpu is good. Also look for an ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe, Abit NF7 or the Abit AN7. I have the E-Deluxe and 2 AN7,s running the XP2500 Barton @2.2GHz for 4 years now. The E-Deluxe benchmarks faster than all the other Socket A boards I own. Good luck.

old_dog

Thanks for the suggestion. I found a still new Abit AN7, and it's on the way. It's a tough one to find these days. especially new. I reviewed the side-by-side comparison of the Asus A7N8X to the Abit AN7 on http://techreport.com/articles.x/6470/1, and they are a virtual tie in memory bandwidth tests, PATA and SATA performance, several gaming tests, and USB 2.0 read and write performance. They did not use an Asus board with firewire support, so the comparison was not made with firewire, but they noted the read scores for firewire on the AN7 trounced the USB 2.0 scores with much lower CPU utilization. Duh. The AN7 was a bit slower in CPU utilization in USB and firewire, but all in all, it looks like an excellent board and I like the addition of a firewire port on the I/O.
I'm looking forward to plugging the XP2800 Barton in the AN7 and seeing what she'll do.

2pistolpacker

What a lucky find, and very good choice. It is a full featured board and you won't be disappointed. After you install it, if you like I can help you with the bios settings.

speedster123

i have a deluxe A7N8X board with a 3200 athlon cpu brandy new, never used. its hard to find the 3200 brand new without taking out a loan.

old_dog

Thank you all for the support. I might consider going to a 3200 in the future, but for now I want to get the most from the 2800 I have. If anything, going to 400 fsb would be an improvement for sure, but the 3200 has me a bit confused. The 333 fsb Barton 3200 is rated at 2333 MHz, but the 400 fsb Barton 3200 is rated slower at 2200 MHz...? (according to cpu-world). It appears the multiplier is the key here: 14x for the 333 fsb, and 11x for the 400 fsb 3200. So which is better? 2333 MHz with 333 fsb, or 2200 with 400 fsb? I always understood that faster fsb was the best way to go. If I went to the 400 fsb, I would have to upgrade my ram to PC3200 also and that would add more cost. Either way, the increase in speed (frequency) seems minimal compared to the 2083 MHz the 333 fsb Barton 2800 should run stable at. I would expect the most difference would come from the increase in fsb.
Anyway, as for the main issue, I will get XP 2800+ in the Abit AN7 board in a few days and see what she'll do. Getting the cpu properly identified and running at spec is a step forward at this point. I'll post the results. Thanks again.

u551

In my expirience performance gain from 2800+ to 3200+ is indeed minimal, not even visible in most applications. I had 3200+ for a little while (sold it) and see no difference compared to this. And hey, with decent cooling you can get 2800 to show up as atleast 3000+ easily anyway.

As for comparison between the different 3200 models my guess would be that they are equally fast, (they are rated at the same speed afterall). 333fsb version seems to be harder to find.

old_dog

Thanks for sharing your experience, u551. This PC is a personal just-for-fun job that I've been tinkering with, so I am trying to curb my enthusiasm. These things can get carried away quickly, like my last bathroom remodeling. It started out with a shower replacement, and the bathroom ended up being gutted from floor to ceiling.
If I can get my 2800 running decently, at least up to spec, which the Asus A7N8X Deluxe ver. 1.04 apparently won't do for some reason beyond my level of knowledge, I'll be a happy camper and will (try hard to) be content with that. BUT....if I keep going, I might end up with enough spare parts for my next.......NO.
Man, it's like an addiction! I gotta get some exercise!

old_dog

Well, the Abit AN7 arrived and is brand new as promised. everything is still sealed. It's like finding the Holy Grail! I am having problems, however, and I think somebody here (2pistolpacker) saw the writing on the wall. Here's what going on: The AN7 is installed and running, but will only run in Fail-Safe (minimal settings). The top two lines of the SoftMenu BIOS screen, which are unchangeable and only for information, show the CPU name as AMD Athlon XP, but the CPU internal frequency as 1250 MHz (100x12.5). Just below that, the CPU operating speed is listed as 2800+, the external clock at 166, and the multiplier factor as x12.5, all correct for a 2800. If I save those settings, the sirens will wail and the system shuts down. I cleared the cmos several times and started over trying different settings like lowering the multiplier with user difine and using the optimal settings and ended up with the same result. The startup screen shows the processor as AD Athlon XP 1250MHz and the memory frequency as DDR333. Booting to the OS in Fail-Safe, I can run CPU-Z and the specs are the same. Again it looks like an identity crisis with the cpu, but I don't know. The cpu is most likely identified by the internal frequency and speed which is a result of the BIOS settings. I think I may need to find the right sequence to configure the BIOS. Right now my thought is that the BIOS is identifying the cpu as a 1250MHz Athlon, and freaks out when I set it to run at 166x12.5 (2+ GHz). I'm confused now and need to go clear my mind. I'll check back soon. I've got a few ideas, but I need some air. Meanwhile, if you have any insight and any of what I said makes sense, feel free to make a suggestion. Thanks all.

2pistolpacker

Hey old_dog, sorry to see your problem continues. the longer this goes on the more it sounds like the cpu is screwy. I wish I could just hand you one of the 6 Barton cpus in my parts tray and get this solved right now. Try these settings, I've got my daughters PC booted to the bios screen now and am looking at the settings. Try these settings and look to flash the bios. My AN7s are both running the bios dated 6/13/05, which add support for the XP2800 Barton and above.
AN7 bios page

CPU Operating Speed: User Define
External Clock: 166 MHz
Multiplier Factor: x12.5 (2800+)
AGP Frequency: 66MHz
CPU FSB/DRAM ratio: 6/6 (333MHz)
CPU Interface: Enabled

old_dog

Thanks for the quick response - I was just going to post my latest reconfiguration. I tried an old working 2100 Thoroughbred in the board after unplugging the psu and clearing the cmos. I set the BIOS for Fail-Safe and booted to Windows. The irritating two-toned siren went off, even though the OS booted and ran. The BIOS showed the cpu internal frquency (second line down on BIOS SoftMenu Setup) as 1300 for the XP2100+ (100x13) before I turned it loose, but again (like the 2800) it did not match up with the cpu operating speed/external clock/mutiplier setting that was set by BIOS (2100+/133/x13). On the SoftMenu screen of your BIOS, do the clock speed and multiplier numbers in parinthesis on the second line CPU internal frequency) match the numbers below it for external clock and multiplier factor? I would think it would and should. This new board has all the manuals, and the picture of the SoftMenu BIOS screen in the example shows everything matching up. Mine do not, and that goes for both cpu's I've tried.
The BIOS version according to CPU-Z as well as the startup screen is Phoenix-Award v6.00PG. I don't see this type of number listed for the BIOS versions on the Abit site - they are numbered 16, 17, and such. What I do know is the BIOS date which is 2005.
I'm going to clear everything out and start over with the 2800. If the 2100 is doing the same thing, the issue is most likely with the BIOS. For now I'm going to sleep on it.

u551

Hmm.. Both of your CPU's fsb are set to 100mhz by default it seems. Is there a jumper on the board for fsb speed and is it set correctly?

2pistolpacker

Yes, both my AN7's show the clock speed in the "Frequency" line as matching the user defined settings I have set to overclock my XP2500 Barton. When I change the multiplier, the frequency line changes to reflect the change. At the initial bios screen, at the very bottom is the bios string. The date is first, then nvidia xxxxxx, the the last number is the bios version. Mine is 19.
I'm sorry old_dog but I'll be offline for several days, if I get a chance to check this post, I will. Mike

old_dog

No luck yet. As for the fsb jumpers - there are none on th AN7, but thanks for the suggestion. So far I have tried a different psu (good working 460w, and yes, they each have a 4-pin 12v connection), moving the RAM to various dimms (the recommended installation is from dimm3 to dimm1 sockets in order - where I have them now in 2&3), different known working cpu (2100+) and flashed the BIOS with the same as what it was (v19) just to give it a clean copy. The problem I see with each setup is in the SoftMenu of the BIOS, where the frequency for the the cpu is listed on line 2, right under the cpu brand name. Both cpu's I've tried incorrectly show the frequency at 100 x whatever the multiplier is for the cpu. For the 2100, it reads 1300MHz (100x13.0) and for the 2800 it reads 1250MHz (100x12.5). It is getting the multiplier correct for each cpu, (x13 for the 2100 and x12.5 for the 2800), but the fsb is always stuck at 100 on that line and ther's no way to change it. Going down the list, the cpu operating speed is correctly shown for each cpu (2100+ or 2800+) as is the external clock (133MHz for the 2100+ and 166MHz for the 2800+) and the correct multiplier for each. I've used User Define and made changes up and down, but it appears to me that the problem may be in the first two lines which are inaccessible and do not change with the rest of the settings. The bus for the frequncy line is always 100 even though the multiplier correctly changes with the cpu change, as does the External Clock frequency under the CPU operating Speed.
The only thing I haven't changed is the heatsink/fan. I have a suspicion that the fan may not run a high enough rpm (it fluctuates but averages about 4500rpm according to the monitor of the BIOS). Also, there is no system fan or other fans connected to the board (the case fan is connected to the psu). The Northbrige fan speed is 5580 average. The CPU fan failed warning is enabled in the BIOS, I'm going to disable it and see what happens. If you don't hear from me soon, call 911.

old_dog

Yet another day, and I'm finally making progress. The good news is I am able to get the 2100+ running at stock speed. The SoftMenu correctly shows the frequency at 1733MHz(133x13.0)! While I had it running in Fail-Safe, I loaded all the uGURU programs from the CD to be sure all the right drivers were loaded and use the BIOS flash it includes (a pretty neat program). Several CMOS clearings and flashes combined with restarts finally pursuaded the AN7 to go with the setup. The bad news is I couldn't get the 2800+ to work using the same sequence of events. BUT...I think I now know why. The 2800+ would boot, but in no time at all the sirens would wail and the system shut down. I restarted and was able to get into the BIOS to the PC Health Status and into the Temerature Monitoring to be sure the CPU Shutdown Temp was disabled and the CPU Alarm Temp was at its maximum setting (90°C) and stop irritating me. It didn't take long to see the problem: the 2800+ was at 98°C! WAY to hot!!! I'm looking at the same BIOS screen right now with the 2100+ setup, and it is running at a decent but warm 69-70°C (but that's with the case completely open). So I think the thing to do is go find a better heatsink/fan. Maybe if I can get the 2800+ to run cooler, it will work. Could there be a problem with this 2800+ cpu that would make it run unusually hot? I know Athlon XP's run hot by nature, but I'm wondering if the one I have is a bit unstable. Maybe a better cooling setup will tell.

old_dog

An interesting observation today. I opened the Abit EQ program and saw that the cpu temperature was a very comfortable 35-40°C idle which is contrary to the BIOS monitoring. I started a pinball game and kept an eye on the cpu temp and it got up to 70°C tops according to Abit EQ, mostly keeping in the upper 60's. I restarted the computer and entered the BIOS PC Health Status and checked the cpu temperature monitoring. I let it settle down for several minutes. According to the BIOS, the cpu temp started in the mid to upper 60's and never dropped. The longer I watched it, the warmer it got. After a few minutes, it topped out at a constant 69-70°C. I quit and booted to the OS and opened Abit EQ immediately. The first cpu tempeature shown was 78° (it must have been working hard loading the OS) but dropped almost immediately to 45°. In less that a minute, it settled to the 35-40° range at idle. The cpu temp never went that low in the BIOS, in fact it rose. It seems the BIOS is puting a load on the cpu, or the BIOS cpu tempeature is inaccurate. The system temperature is right even in both functions, though, so it seems they agree on that area. So, the 2100+ is not running as warm as I thought it was according to Abit EQ. But the 2800+ will not run because it can't get past the BIOS with it's hotter temp. Yes, the cpu temp shutdown is disbled in the BIOS, but it still won't run it. Maybe when the BIOS reads the temp as high as it was, (98°C) there is a fail-safe built in despite the user settings. I just don't know if the BIOS reading for the 2800+ is accurate or in agreement with Abit EQ because I can't boot it to run the Abit EQ for comparison. Hmmm...... Now I'm not sure if a new heatsink is the cure. Maybe this 2800+ is screwy as noted.

old_dog

Oh boy! A new all-copper heatsink and 7cm fan and the 2100+ is running much cooler. Abit EQ shows it at 25-28°C idle and while playing a long, high-scoring game of 3D Pinball, it never got above 35°C! That's a 50% decrease in temperature over the previous heatsink/fan setup. I'll try the 2800+ again with the new heatsink and see if I can get through the BIOS before she over heats and shuts down. If the 2800+ runs as much cooler as the 2100+ does, it should work. Keep you fingers crossed.

old_dog

Good news, indeed! The heatsink solved the issue. The 2800+ is now running at a comfortable 30°C idle and hit a high spike of 46°C while playing 3D Pinball, running a consistant 45°C. The PC2700 RAM is now able to run at 166MHz, as is the cpu, so everything is stable and good. The AN7 is rockin' and rollin'. The old aluminum heatsink is headed to the recycler.
Thanks to you all for your interest and your input. This site rocks and I'll be sure to check in again.

2pistolpacker

I'm happy to hear the problem is solved. Remember the sweet spot on memory timings for the NForce2 chipset is 2.5-3-3-11 so give those a try. Mike

Done_Fishin

Congrats on getting to the root of the problem .. to all concerned, I'm just surprised that bits of motherboard aren't being used as coat hangers where they jut out from being thrown at the walls Patience is always a virtue when it comes to computing ...