Mobo or PSU?

kefkarz · 05-08-2006, 02:17 PM

I posted this originally in the video card section, but as I believe I've eliminated it from the list of suspects, this would probably be a better place.

General Specs:
Intel BOXD945PSN motherboard
Intel P4 @ 2.9ghz
3x 512mb sticks of Corsair DDR667
Ultra V-Series 500W PSU
ATI Radeon X700 graphics card
WD 250GB HDD
other inconsequential hardware

Anyhow, I was using the computer a couple weeks ago, when it froze. So, I reset. This time, the computer powered up, but the monitor didn't come on (amber light). I reset a few more times, hoping this was temporary, but no dice; the same thing occurred. So, I unplugged the computer and went to bed.

The next morning I tried again. This time it came on! But.. about 20 seconds into boot, the system appeared to lock up. Lights were still flashing, fans were still spinning, the HD was still thinking, but the monitor's image was frozen in place. Reset, and we're back with the amber light again. Unplugged for 4 hours, tried again, monitor worked for 20 seconds again. This has been going on for two weeks and I'm reluctant to pay some exhorbitant sum to have a tech support dude diagnose the problem, so I've been trying (when I have time) to troubleshoot it myself. I tried a different monitor, and the problem stayed, so I ruled that out. I have no spare video cards (PCI-E, at least), so I've been unable to troubleshoot that. Not RAM, not HDD, not a peripheral. CPU still works, I'd know otherwise. So that brings it to two culprits: motherboard or PSU. Neither have given me any trouble in the past, and I'm not really sure how to troubleshoot either one -- I asked around and was unable to find anyone with extras I could borrow, so I'd like to figure it out before dropping money on replacements. So what I'm asking is: if any of you have had a similar problem, did you figure out what component was causing it? Thanks for any help.

EDIT: The machine (or monitor, rather) locked up wherever it was, whether in BIOS, in Safe Mode, or standard boot.

Tumbleweed36 · 05-08-2006, 02:46 PM

Hi,

Two quick things come to mind. First of all the power supply. The Ultra V-Series 500W PSU is not listed as the greatest supply in the world.
In addition, 500 watts is not much on the rig that you have.

Therefore, when you get a chance, open the case and look on the side of the power supply and see how many amps are listed on the 12 volt rail.

The second thing that I thought of is that you need to take an additional look at the other issues you have mentioned that it might not be. Here is a free download that will give us some good information. When you get it downloaded, post the information so we can see some of the health issues:

SensorView Pro (Free to try for like 21 days – Is excellent)

[url]http://www.stvsoft.com/download.php?id=122[/url

Post back with results so we can get going on this one.

kefkarz · 05-08-2006, 02:55 PM

I can't use Sensorview, unfortunately - I've been unable to get anywhere at all with the computer, even to Windows, without it locking up on me. But the other day, after having left the machine off for three days or so, I was able to make it to the BIOS temp readings before it froze (another, probably important, detail that I forgot to mention: the longer the comp's unplugged before I power up again, the longer I can use it before the monitor locks). Nothing was out of the ordinary, hovering around 50-55C.

Also, http://www.ultraproducts.com/product...&productID=369 has all the specs of my PSU.

Tumbleweed36 · 05-08-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kefkarz

I can't use Sensorview, unfortunately - I've been unable to get anywhere at all with the computer, even to Windows, without it locking up on me.

My mistake, I should have realized that, but got ahead of myself.

But the other day, after having left the machine off for three days or so, I was able to make it to the BIOS temp readings before it froze (another, probably important, detail that I forgot to mention: the longer the comp's unplugged before I power up again, the longer I can use it before the monitor locks). Nothing was out of the ordinary, hovering around 50-55C.

If this is at-rest or just when you turn it on, that is WAY TOO high for your CPU. Please clarify. When it was put together, did you use Artic Silver of the factory pad between the CPU and heatsink?

Second thought, Take the side of the case off, put a fan blowing in there right on the CPU and see if it tanks or quits so quicklly. Just be sure the fan is blowing directly at that CPU.

What cooling fans do you have in the case? How many, where located, blowing which direction? Which was is your heatsink fan blowing, down or pulling air up?

Have you had a chance to blow the dust out of all fans and the CPU, plus the power supply with a can of compressed air? If not, you need to do that ASAP.

I will take another look at the power supply specs later in the PM when I get a chance. Need to be gone for a little bit from the computer.

Post back with questions or concerns.

Also, http://www.ultraproducts.com/product...&productID=369 has all the specs of my PSU.

kefkarz · 05-08-2006, 03:34 PM

Fans.. well, not many: just the CPU's (with heatsink), PSU's, and video card's. That could definitely be a problem, but I think I'll try your suggestion with the extra fan blowing inside before I do (or buy) anything else. I'll be gone til tomorrow, so I won't respond to anything before then - but if anybody else can offer their input, it's appreciated.

~~mountcarlmore~~ · 05-08-2006, 04:42 PM

supposedly ultra's 12v line is 28a so that should be enough, however i dont trust ultra, so im fairly certain that the problem youre experiencing is the psu. these types of lockups can occur with memory, but i doubt that the memory would suddenly get so bad as to freeze up during post.

Tumbleweed36 · 05-08-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kefkarz

Fans.. well, not many: just the CPU's (with heatsink), PSU's, and video card's. That could definitely be a problem,

To be quite honest, you need to put a case fan in the back pulling hot air out of the case. That is just a must! It is best also to have one in the front area pulling cool air in the case. This is just a guess, but that quite likely is the problem you are experiencing, because the heat is kind of trapped inside and things heat up real fast unless you have a smooth air flow from front to back. That is a pretty cheap affair to put those two in the case and definitely worth a try. With computers, heat kills, so keep that baby cool if you can. If you can fit a couple of 120mm fans in there, that would be even better than the 80mm fans, but do whatever you are able to do with your case.

but I think I'll try your suggestion with the extra fan blowing inside before I do (or buy) anything else. I'll be gone til tomorrow, so I won't respond to anything before then - but if anybody else can offer their input, it's appreciated.

We won't be able to rule out the power supply just yet as a possible cause as I mentioned earlier. If it were a choice between the PSU and the Motherboard, then I would say the PSU is it. However, with your lack of air flow, I am presently leaning toward heat as an issue you need to address ASAP. You should get an idea with the fan trick......let me know what the result of the fan trick is.

kefkarz · 05-09-2006, 02:51 PM

Update: bought a couple of Aspire 120mm fans from Newegg, they should be here Friday. Whether it's overheating or not, it could definitely go for some cooling anyway. (And yeah, I have room for two 120s in there - just need to figure out a good arrangement. I don't know a whole lot about fan installation and intake/outtake, so if anyone could give me some pointers there, I'd appreciate it)

I'm leaning toward the PSU now - the fact that the computer 'lasts' longer if the system's unplugged proportionately long almost gives it away, right?

Tumbleweed36 · 05-09-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kefkarz

Update: bought a couple of Aspire 120mm fans from Newegg, they should be here Friday. Whether it's overheating or not, it could definitely go for some cooling anyway. (And yeah, I have room for two 120s in there - just need to figure out a good arrangement. I don't know a whole lot about fan installation and intake/outtake,

Back fan pulling warm air out of the case,

Front fan pulling cool air in to the case.

so if anyone could give me some pointers there, I'd appreciate it)

I'm leaning toward the PSU now - the fact that the computer 'lasts' longer if the system's unplugged proportionately long almost gives it away, right?

That does sound logical. What I would do is the fan and cooling thing and if you are still having problems, then go for the PSU. Just remember, I mentioned that early on, so could very well be it. Another one of those however situations, if unplugged longer, cools more also, so take one step at a time IMHO.

kefkarz · 05-12-2006, 09:44 AM

Bump-update:

I got my fans, put them in, and they spun and all of that. Didn't help, the comp still wouldn't boot. I readjusted them a couple times, aiming for critical areas and parts of the mainboard. Didn't help, the comp still wouldn't boot. Got on Newegg and ordered an Antec TruepowerII, got that the next day (go Newegg), took out my old Ultra V500, replaced it. Didn't help, nothing smelled weird and the PSU didn't make any weird sounds so I don't think it was the problem at all. That leaves two potential culprits, maybe three: video card, mobo, and now the CPU (as I heard that some of my symptoms might be attributed to it, but I can't be sure). Unfortunately, I'm just a student with a part-time job, so while I can afford new parts, I'd prefer to only have to get one of them (otherwise I'd have to settle with sub-quality equipment). I'm thinking of replacing the mainboard, but I'm not really sure who makes the best - my current one is an Intel BOXD945PSN. I know ASUS's tech support sucks, but how are their Intel-based motherboards?

Thanks again.

**MunkyPhil** · 05-12-2006, 09:58 AM

Do yourself a favour and make sure you know what the problem is before you jump in and spend your hard-earned cash. You'll regret it if you buy the wrong thing. I spent £300 last year trying to fix a problem and it didn't work. I wasn't happy!!

**jnob** · 05-12-2006, 10:00 AM

I'd go ASUS, why do you need their tech support when you got us

However, this doesn't seem like a motherboard problem. You could try booting the system with each stick of RAM individually that will rule out it being a RAM problem. I'm guessing you were overclocking the processor? I don't recall a 2.9Ghz P4. have your tried taking the heatsink off the processor wiping all the old thermal paste off with a coffee filter and reapplying Arctic silver? I personally believe your processor is getting too hot or your video card is dieing. You could always buy a new video card from a place that will take it back if it doesn't solve the problem... and while you're there pick up some Arctic silver, they sell it at COMPUSA.

If you were overclocking try resetting the cmos as that should set the CPU back to factory speeds and possibly solve the problem.

kefkarz · 05-12-2006, 01:34 PM

Good idea, Jnob; I went to Best Buy today in between classes and picked up an ATI Radeon X1600 Pro. If it doesn't fix the problem I'll return it; if it does I'll keep it, as I saved about $40 + 5-6 more days (damn their no-weekend-shipping policy) of downtime by not using Newegg for this. I'll update this thread again tomorrow if it doesn't fix anything, tonight after work if it does.

kefkarz · 05-12-2006, 11:31 PM

Problem solved! It was the graphics card. I got my fans in the mail today as well, so I installed them both without a hitch, put in the new card, rearranged the wiring to allow for air passage, and voila - no more problems. Thanks to all who helped.

**jnob** · 05-14-2006, 11:03 AM

Great! Thanks for the update, always glad to help.

05-08-2006, 02:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
kefkarz Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Mobo or PSU? I posted this originally in the video card section, but as I believe I've eliminated it from the list of suspects, this would probably be a better place. General Specs: Intel BOXD945PSN motherboard Intel P4 @ 2.9ghz 3x 512mb sticks of Corsair DDR667 Ultra V-Series 500W PSU ATI Radeon X700 graphics card WD 250GB HDD other inconsequential hardware Anyhow, I was using the computer a couple weeks ago, when it froze. So, I reset. This time, the computer powered up, but the monitor didn't come on (amber light). I reset a few more times, hoping this was temporary, but no dice; the same thing occurred. So, I unplugged the computer and went to bed. The next morning I tried again. This time it came on! But.. about 20 seconds into boot, the system appeared to lock up. Lights were still flashing, fans were still spinning, the HD was still thinking, but the monitor's image was frozen in place. Reset, and we're back with the amber light again. Unplugged for 4 hours, tried again, monitor worked for 20 seconds again. This has been going on for two weeks and I'm reluctant to pay some exhorbitant sum to have a tech support dude diagnose the problem, so I've been trying (when I have time) to troubleshoot it myself. I tried a different monitor, and the problem stayed, so I ruled that out. I have no spare video cards (PCI-E, at least), so I've been unable to troubleshoot that. Not RAM, not HDD, not a peripheral. CPU still works, I'd know otherwise. So that brings it to two culprits: motherboard or PSU. Neither have given me any trouble in the past, and I'm not really sure how to troubleshoot either one -- I asked around and was unable to find anyone with extras I could borrow, so I'd like to figure it out before dropping money on replacements. So what I'm asking is: if any of you have had a similar problem, did you figure out what component was causing it? Thanks for any help. EDIT: The machine (or monitor, rather) locked up wherever it was, whether in BIOS, in Safe Mode, or standard boot. Last edited by kefkarz; 05-08-2006 at 02:18 PM.

05-08-2006, 02:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 19,462 OS: XP Professional	Hi, Two quick things come to mind. First of all the power supply. The Ultra V-Series 500W PSU is not listed as the greatest supply in the world. In addition, 500 watts is not much on the rig that you have. Therefore, when you get a chance, open the case and look on the side of the power supply and see how many amps are listed on the 12 volt rail. The second thing that I thought of is that you need to take an additional look at the other issues you have mentioned that it might not be. Here is a free download that will give us some good information. When you get it downloaded, post the information so we can see some of the health issues: SensorView Pro (Free to try for like 21 days – Is excellent) [url]http://www.stvsoft.com/download.php?id=122[/url Post back with results so we can get going on this one. __________________ ---------- I don't receive email notifications of replies to subscribed threads. (Internet provider policy) Therefore, if I don't respond to your post within 24 hours, please send me a reminder PM and include the link to your thread. Last edited by Tumbleweed36; 05-08-2006 at 02:49 PM.

05-08-2006, 02:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
kefkarz Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	I can't use Sensorview, unfortunately - I've been unable to get anywhere at all with the computer, even to Windows, without it locking up on me. But the other day, after having left the machine off for three days or so, I was able to make it to the BIOS temp readings before it froze (another, probably important, detail that I forgot to mention: the longer the comp's unplugged before I power up again, the longer I can use it before the monitor locks). Nothing was out of the ordinary, hovering around 50-55C. Also, http://www.ultraproducts.com/product...&productID=369 has all the specs of my PSU. Last edited by kefkarz; 05-08-2006 at 02:56 PM.

05-12-2006, 09:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
MunkyPhil TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Liverpool, England Posts: 1,140 OS: Win XP Pro SP2 My System	Do yourself a favour and make sure you know what the problem is before you jump in and spend your hard-earned cash. You'll regret it if you buy the wrong thing. I spent £300 last year trying to fix a problem and it didn't work. I wasn't happy!! __________________ "Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds." - J. Robert Oppenheimer, July 16th 1945. CPU-z -- Memtest -- Speedfan -- Prime95 -- SandraLite Important Power Supply Info -- Applying Thermal Paste -- Posting System Specs

05-12-2006, 10:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
jnob TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Valley Posts: 692 OS: XP Pro, SP2 My System	I'd go ASUS, why do you need their tech support when you got us However, this doesn't seem like a motherboard problem. You could try booting the system with each stick of RAM individually that will rule out it being a RAM problem. I'm guessing you were overclocking the processor? I don't recall a 2.9Ghz P4. have your tried taking the heatsink off the processor wiping all the old thermal paste off with a coffee filter and reapplying Arctic silver? I personally believe your processor is getting too hot or your video card is dieing. You could always buy a new video card from a place that will take it back if it doesn't solve the problem... and while you're there pick up some Arctic silver, they sell it at COMPUSA. If you were overclocking try resetting the cmos as that should set the CPU back to factory speeds and possibly solve the problem. __________________ Everest Memtest86 Last edited by jnob; 05-12-2006 at 10:02 AM.

05-08-2006, 03:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
kefkarz Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Fans.. well, not many: just the CPU's (with heatsink), PSU's, and video card's. That could definitely be a problem, but I think I'll try your suggestion with the extra fan blowing inside before I do (or buy) anything else. I'll be gone til tomorrow, so I won't respond to anything before then - but if anybody else can offer their input, it's appreciated.

05-08-2006, 04:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
~~mountcarlmore~~ Register user Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 131 OS: XP/vistabeta2 My System	supposedly ultra's 12v line is 28a so that should be enough, however i dont trust ultra, so im fairly certain that the problem youre experiencing is the psu. these types of lockups can occur with memory, but i doubt that the memory would suddenly get so bad as to freeze up during post.

05-09-2006, 02:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
kefkarz Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Update: bought a couple of Aspire 120mm fans from Newegg, they should be here Friday. Whether it's overheating or not, it could definitely go for some cooling anyway. (And yeah, I have room for two 120s in there - just need to figure out a good arrangement. I don't know a whole lot about fan installation and intake/outtake, so if anyone could give me some pointers there, I'd appreciate it) I'm leaning toward the PSU now - the fact that the computer 'lasts' longer if the system's unplugged proportionately long almost gives it away, right?

05-12-2006, 09:44 AM	#10 (permalink)
kefkarz Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Bump-update: I got my fans, put them in, and they spun and all of that. Didn't help, the comp still wouldn't boot. I readjusted them a couple times, aiming for critical areas and parts of the mainboard. Didn't help, the comp still wouldn't boot. Got on Newegg and ordered an Antec TruepowerII, got that the next day (go Newegg), took out my old Ultra V500, replaced it. Didn't help, nothing smelled weird and the PSU didn't make any weird sounds so I don't think it was the problem at all. That leaves two potential culprits, maybe three: video card, mobo, and now the CPU (as I heard that some of my symptoms might be attributed to it, but I can't be sure). Unfortunately, I'm just a student with a part-time job, so while I can afford new parts, I'd prefer to only have to get one of them (otherwise I'd have to settle with sub-quality equipment). I'm thinking of replacing the mainboard, but I'm not really sure who makes the best - my current one is an Intel BOXD945PSN. I know ASUS's tech support sucks, but how are their Intel-based motherboards? Thanks again.

05-12-2006, 01:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
kefkarz Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Good idea, Jnob; I went to Best Buy today in between classes and picked up an ATI Radeon X1600 Pro. If it doesn't fix the problem I'll return it; if it does I'll keep it, as I saved about $40 + 5-6 more days (damn their no-weekend-shipping policy) of downtime by not using Newegg for this. I'll update this thread again tomorrow if it doesn't fix anything, tonight after work if it does.

05-12-2006, 11:31 PM	#14 (permalink)
kefkarz Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9 OS: Windows XP Pro SP2	Problem solved! It was the graphics card. I got my fans in the mail today as well, so I installed them both without a hitch, put in the new card, rearranged the wiring to allow for air passage, and voila - no more problems. Thanks to all who helped.

05-14-2006, 11:03 AM	#15 (permalink)
jnob TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Valley Posts: 692 OS: XP Pro, SP2 My System	Great! Thanks for the update, always glad to help. __________________ Everest Memtest86