Starving Artist

Hey again - new issue - probably part of the cause of the old issues....

checked Bios time and date - it's off and after resetting it twice - it's still going off time... take it it must indicate a need for a CMOS battery replacement

Question pertains to the CMOS Battery and how to replace it... actually where the heck is it in the Sony Vaio VGN-SZ460N to be replaced?

Here again is a Disassembly guide for the VGN-SZ460N and NC

I see wht is refered to as the "Reserve Battery" under the Palm Rest... little Lythium battery with a plug.

Normally i would expect to find the little flat nickle size battery on the MB.. don't see one.

Where is the CMOS battery?
What is the "Reserve Battery" for? ...WLAN module?

thanx

Starving Artist

I'm going to answer my own question here for reference to those that may ask it in the future.

The "Lythium Backup Battery" shown int the dissasembly pdf above under the palm rest is a RTC battery Backup.

So if the time is off in your Bios, this needs replacing... and it's not in-expensive - actually imo - it's over-priced.

anyway... let me quote from Cymbet Corp:

Real Time Clocks (RTC) Power Backup Solutions

Over 1 billion real time clocks (RTC) are being sold each year with the ability to keep time when power fails. Clock chip manufacturers have been steadily lowering operating currents, which are now approaching 200 nA. This allows the use of Cymbet EnerChip thin film, rechargeable batteries as a replacement for traditional, bulkier power sources, such as coin cell batteries and super capacitors. The EnerChip can provide power from a few hours to a few weeks and can be recharged thousands of times. They offer the engineer new cost-lowering possibilities, such as reduced size, Pb-free reflow tolerance and automatic pick & place assembly methods.

Most real-time clock (RTC) chips include an input for a backup power source and a built-in power-sense circuit which detects power failures and automatically switches to the backup power source. This allows the Real Time Clock to maintain the current time and date in the absence of main system power.

so that is what the Battery back-up is for... and what it does.

Not to say you have a Cymbet Enerchip thin film - but explains the RTC Battery under the palm rest in this case's function

hope this helps for that.

Is there an additional CMOS Battery or Flash Mem or Capacitor for the CMOS... I don't know at this point... i've read that there is under the speakers on the left side for some models other than the VGN-SZ460n... so...???? further checking to be sure or if some one else has a diffinitive answer - feel free to chime in.

Starving Artist

The Replacement Part # for this battery as found at SpareParts Warehouse is 1-756-544-21

Again i hope this further helps.

TriggerFinger

CMOS battery is the Reserve Battery.

Starving Artist

Hey TriggerFinger -

It is..!!!?? (said I, in an astonished and confused way)

I thought this was just for the Real time clock module - or is it on the Sony Vaio..?? huh..?

if it is... that's the controler and would throw everything off including the restore - correct? it would time out or go out of sync - etc

did you read this some where or is it learned knowledge by working on them or privilaged info... i know the tech manuals are gaurded for some reason... sony would't give up even a parts Number page of it.

I'm being sinsere when i ask - because i've been trying to find out and couldn't locate anything on it for this model comp - or any other in this series.

thanx for sure.. ;0)

TriggerFinger

Do not take my word for it. ... but I suggest you check this out.
http://www.laptopparts101.com/cmos-rtc-battery/

Hmmm those things are cheap so you practically do not lose that much if replacing it does not help. But on the other hand, you gain a whole lot if it corrects the problem.

Starving Artist

Hey thanks for sure for the link - i looked into it...

what he didn't show or mention and i'm not sure this applies to my comp is the addition of a soldered CAP or Flash Mem to the MB which is mentioned in the CymBet Corp site. Apparently they add both in todays laptops. One for the RTC adn another component for the CMOS - sometimes not... with out the service manual - don't know for sure on this laptop.

but i'll change it just the same... I've come too far to turn back now!

Starving Artist

I wanted to amend this thread with a little info i found in my researching the web for answers concerning the RTC battery and the Sony Vaio laptops. the VGN-SZ460n included.

Apparently - if the RTC Battery is bad - it will notifiy you - personnally i am not getting a notification pop up.

Second - issues with CMOS would also cause a pop up notification from what i understand
- personally - i have none of these either.

In another forum - a related post about the RTC Battery Replacement and the time being off on a Vaio in the Bios...
- the person took it took it to Geek Squad
- Geek Squad replaced the RTC Battery and it did NOT fix the problem
- they [Geek Squad] also checked the original RTC battery and it was good - so the laptop owner was stuck buying the second one. ( this was one of their issues).

$22 bucks plus shipping - rounding off = $30 bucks to replace the RTC Battery [at the time of this writing - going through SpareParts Warehouse)
I don't know about anybody else but to me - $30 bucks is $30 - i can spend that on something i do need rather waste it if i don't need the battery replaced.

AS well and with this new info -
this would mean something else can cause the RTC to not keep correct time - showing incorrect time keeping in the bios - what? the RTC modual itself?

Personnally, i don't know, and at the time of that thread post - nor did anyone else - no resolves where in that thread. Nor in further searching the web thus far.

any thoughts?

Starving Artist

Amedment to those reading this thread.

This relates to the RTC bios clokc and time being off in the Bios.

In my case - it wasn't... i was reading it wrong

the bios in my other comps gives a choice of militrary time - 24hr clock or standard time - 12hr time clock viewing.

The Sony Bios does not - at least in my case. adn it's a 24 hr clock - so when i checked and reset it - i set it wrong - hey i don't mind this mistake. i discovered it and corrected it.

How i discovered it is worth posting

Clockwatch Pro by Beagle software - checks both system and bios clocks and syncs them (so long as it's installed) it makes little corrections to the bios clock (RTC) and tels you of bigger issues.

Cool thing is it also has testing - shows system/bios clock drift etc
broadband testors etc
for single users or network clocks

the above link will bring you to their main product page
- the pro version is what i tested this system with. and it was interesting to see the amount of drift my system clocks showed

Be sure to read the Manual - lot of stuff it does and variables to choose from.
there is also a great info pages on clock systems of all types HERE

with alot of info and trouble shooting guides for pc - just scan down the page for the heading PC Clocks

one good explaination of Clocks inside your PC - HERE

and there is much more info as i mentioned there on this subject.

so... my RTC battery is not bad - my RTC clock is not off
which as TriggerFinger pointed out
- if the RTC battery is for my CMOS - then the CMOS is not the problem with my comp...
a good thing but means it must be something else... ?

TriggerFinger

Sorry you seemed to have lost me there... in your opening post to this thread you were just asking where the CMOS battery is located. Has this been answered? If yes, I would like to know if you still have any problems? If you do and is unrelated to the inquiry as per your opening post then kindly mark this thread as solved.

Thanks.

Riskyone101

Hello,

Good point Triggerfinger.

I have a question here: is the clock changing everytime you reboot pc or startup pc?
If it is , is it by 2 hours or 12 hours or a whole day off?
Is the increment change in time the same everytime you reboot pc or start it up?

This "could" mean a worm or virus infection also, but not saying your infected.

Starving Artist

Hey TriggerFinger - sorry if this thread seems to be drifting, or sound confusing, but everything mentioned is related...

In asking where the CMOS battery is inthe VGN-SZ460N - and mentioning i only found the RTC battery and stated the time related issues (i thought i was having) you statd the RTC Battery and CMOS battery are one in the same.

Further research showed a possible yes and no on this - there is a possibility that there are two power sources - one for RTC and one for CMOS.

Since they are related most of the time - both RTC and CMOS - and i don't knw for sure still if there are two power sources or if it is a single power source for the VGN-SZ460n in question - i posted my research findings concerning the RTC battery and the RTC testing/syncing software.

Riskyone101 - this is a fresh install that i had issues with fromthe beginning so no virus - comps sat for all most a year and a half and now i'm working on restoring it.

The time pre-bios update - was off by a day or more.

As i found out - the bios is using a 24hr display rather than a 12hr display.

Edit to Resikyone101 - see now you got me thinking and no this is not related to this topic but more what you stated about a virus

- the guy that turned this over to me ( the original owners full time tech guy) was an ex-NASA programmer - and kinda pissed our boss was giving me this laptop. Told me straight up he felt if anyone should get it, it was him. Hence the need for the recovery disks.... We all suspected he was just pissed and he purposly knocked out the comp so i'd have to get the recovery disks before being able to use it.. but...
he wouldn't have - couldn't have injected something that would prevent the recovery, even using the Recovery disks - now could he? would he? I mean - That's not possible, is it?

end edit

also as mentioned above - the RTC time is now correctly synced with the sytem clock. there is some drift but that is normal for comps.

symptems solved - yes

As for is the RTC Battery diffinitively the CMOS battery in the VGN-SZ460N? and there being only one power source. As i mentioned above, i'm still not 100% sure, and at this point that part of the question where is the CMOS Batery, no, has not been answered.

So whether to call this question solved or not - that i'll leave up to you TriggerFinger to make that call.

Besides in looking around the posting panel here as i'm typing this and not to sound like a total moron - How do you check it as "Solved"?

thanx and thanx for all the help thus far.

Riskyone101

near top of this page under thread tools tab, it says mark this thread as solved.

1. On installing the operating system, was the clock correct in the bios
before you started the installation of windows?

2. Did you use a harddrive utility on harddrive before installing the windows?
Dont need to everytime but not a bad idea especially since pc was sitting for awhile.

I dont mean to leave the topic of what you are asking, but just wanted to state some very good points for you here.

Starving Artist

1)No - i don't believe it was correct - and then with me re-setting incorrectly - (setting it thinking it was a 12hr display - again no

2) no - I got impatient trying to figure out what was causing the problem with the re-install so ---------since they had a HDD on sale at CompUSA with the higher speed i needed - so i opted to replaced it as i would have had to anyway... and going back to qustion 1 - the clock would have been off on the reinstall attempt with the new drive as well.

think this was or could have been the cause for the Restore install problem with the new drive as well?

Riskyone101

Yes, reinstall the operating system is my advice here.

Go here for the chipset driver:
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Prod...=2300&lang=eng

Go here for the drivers for the pc:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu...60N&SelectOS=7

1. Enter bios and make the appropiate changes (clock)

2. You probably dont need to run a harddrive utility since you have replaced harddrive
unless it is not new.

3. Install operating system

4. Install the drivers - Intel chipset driver first - reboot pc inbetween EACH drive installation.

5. Install pc protection

6. Connect online and use the windows update icon to update the windows to the fullest.

7. Your done.

Starving Artist

... little nervous about atempting this again (6 days of failures the first time)

but okay will give it a try... nothing to loose as it is acting weird anyway with hangs all over the place and missing apps - besides it would be nice to start with a clean install.

btw - HDD is new.


till we meet again...
thanx from all and to all a good night!

here goes nothing...

Riskyone101

Ok if your doing a fresh install, then after installing the drivers, check in device manager
and report any yellow ! marks left and we will find the correct drivers for them also.

You can leave post open and we will be here till your backl up and running if you need any more help with the pc.

Starving Artist

It's a no go...

It's currently hung/froze at 79% completion of the restore process - (installing drivers and software) Currently attempting it's attempting to install quick books starter edition - something that you could get free online and would take 5 minutes to install. It's been attempting to install it for over a half hour now. I'll let it go another hour and then 'm shutting it down and calling it a failed attempt.

From what i understand - teh restore should take appox. 1.5 hrs to complete - i'm past that already.

Did get an error code which i've seen in teh past on the many attempts in the past. Installation error: No label found NIS_60dayMOD...

I take it this is for one of the trial softwares it's installing - it does go past that though.

I took a chance at this knowing it might not work but this attempt had to be done as the comp was running like crap - locking up with no CPU usage persay 2-5% everytime it hit the 48% and definitly the 50% mark of RAM usage. Locked Win Explorer would lock everytime. So teh comp as it stood was useless since i couldn't use any real apps. Anything that brought to the 50% mark of RAM locked it up. Downloading a file - what ever i attempted so...

i don't know what to do at this point - if you look at my other posts here at Techsupport - I pretty much have tried everything i can think of - tested every periferal in the thing.

Obviously not the right periferal or it is just not erroring out during the tests i've done thus far.

So... it's dead in the water - my trick to finesse it into reboot isn't going to work this time either - this timei t won't let me acces the task manager so..

i throw my hands in the air at this point.

with a smile though - i tried - you guys tried

and i thank you.

TriggerFinger

You are using Recovery/Restore CD right? How about if just use an XP installation CD (if you are installing XP) and install the drivers after (drivers will be in Recovery/Restore CD or can be downloaded from Sony website).

Riskyone101

Yes, I agree with Triggerfinger here what he is saying.