markm75

I am looking to get a new laptop.. This isnt my primary focus, but it would be nice to get one that was under $1400, if not under $1000 and would perform ok at say moderate graphic levels in 3d applications (maya 8.0) and some intense games (modern ones).. by this I mean say 800x600 minimal, or 1024x768 typical.. maybe medium to high settings.

Id prefer to have a dual core cpu (say 1.6ghz to 1.83 ghz)..

These are the laptops I was looking at, but it would be nice to find similar performing, but cheaper.

**Dell e1505 (1.83 ghz, 2gb ram, N wireless and bluetooth built in (preferred combo), memory card reader, but no CF reader, kinda a bummer. (cant max out at 4gb ram, would like to have one that could max out at 4gb, not 2gb).. geforce 7300 turbo cache.. price.. $1450 or so. 3dmark06 value 658 (1280x800, noAA, defaults).

Comparing to my desktop which gets at least 2700 3dmarks on a geforce 7600 gt card (pci-express).

I'd also kinda like to have the ability to have 2 harddrives, but not a requirement.. so far I found one laptop that does offer this:

**Toshiba a135-s4487 , but integrated graphics and a value of around 216 in 3dmark06.. 4gb memory capacity though, no built in N wireless, just G. $1299 (dual HDs)

If the unit only had G wireless, I would want to be able to use my N PCcard that I already have.

Compal Hel80, $1400, geforce 7600 card, someone reported 3dmark 06 to be 1649 with 2ghz processor.. this one may be best choice, but no built in Nwireless.

Any other laptops I may not have considered with similar performance to the Hel80 and less money?

I guess if I want true desktop power I need a dell XPS 1700 or similar (geforce 7900gtx)..

Thanks

TheMatt

Hi Mark,

I have found a couple of laptops that meet your criteria. It is up to you to decide which one would fit you best.

This laptop has a good dual core processor, and very good graphics for a laptop. It should run all your games fine at full resolution (1280 x 800). It has a good amount of hard disk space as well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220157
Geforce Go 7600, Core Duo T2400, 1 GB DDR2, 100 GB hard disk, 802.11a/b/g. ~$1250

This laptop doesn't have as high end graphics, but it has a much more powerful dual core processor with 64-bit support. It also comes a higher resolution screen and has a Wireless N card.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834146280
GeForce Go 7300, Core 2 Duo T7200, 1 GB DDR2, 120 GB hard disk, 802.11a/b/g/n. ~$1300

I would personally choose the Leveno laptop, but it is your decision. Both are good quality and excellent performers. The problem with the 2 GB of RAM is that you will have to raise the budget a little and go with something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834146281

markm75

Thanks for the great options.. though I should clarify my requirements slightly.

The first one was pretty cool... especially with the 7600.. That card has been known to yield about 1600 in 3dmark06 on the hel80 laptop (which can be had for around $1390 itself too).

Here is what I definitely need.. 15.4" screen or better (i'm used to a 17" screen at work on a work laptop which I borrow now and then)...

2gb ram to start with capacity to goto 4gb ram.

Ideally 7200rpm sata drive, though I guess not 100% needed.

Of course built in wireless and BT.. ideally N too.

If there is no N built in, then I need it to have a PC card ability (not just express card, as my N card I have now is PC card, though maybe I could find a dlink express card version if need be).

Graphics would be a bonus if it were 7600 or higher.. but at this point i guess I'd settle for avg graphics like intel or 7300 etc.

Price.. as i've said I already can get a compal hal80 for $1390 with 1.83 ghz processor, abg with pc card ability, built in BT, camera on the lid, etc, not sure if it expands to 4gb or not though.. so price wise if there was something say $1200 or less that met all these crazy needs.. that would be sweet:)

TheMatt

You should check out this laptop here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834146281

It is a little over the budget, but it has a nice rebate on it.

Although it doesn't have a 7200 RPM hard disk in it, the 7200 RPM hard disks generally only have average sustained transfer rates of only 5 MB/s faster than those of 5400 RPM hard disks. SATA drives will not be noticably faster if at all because the internal sustained transfer rate (what really matters) will not be improved and the external burst transfer rate (what doesn't really matter) will not be improved by much because it will be limited by the small cache of laptop hard disks.

Also, about the RAM. 32-bit Windows XP cannot use more than 2 GB of RAM. 4 GB of RAM in a 32 GB OS is typically reserved for servers. Also, 4 GB might be needed if you will be running 64-bit Vista. Take a look at this: http://www.techsupportforum.com/721314-post5.html

Other than that, it has everything you are looking for. While the screen is only 15.4", it will seem bigger because it has the resolution of a normal 20" monitor.

markm75

Nice pick.. i'll add it to my list.. perhaps through direct i could modify the config and save a few bucks.. it even has 802.11N.. and finger print reader..

Does anyone know on this one.. can you replace the video cards in these if they are mini-pci express type.. or for that matter, say it comes with 802.11b/g.. and its a mini pci card.. can you just get hold of a mini pci card that is N and put it in and it will work?

I'm only mildly up to date with laptops.. I work primarly in the server/workstation arena and i actually have yet to purchase one for myself .. so any info on that regard is great.

I'm assuming these ones with turbo cache and shared cache are probably embedded into the motherboard and cant be replaced (or could they be overridden if there is a free pci slot.. how many slots do these boards have.. 1 or 2 etc?).

I'm going to find out some of these answers in a few days as a ZD8000 laptop has died and a motherboard replacement is coming, so I'll finally get to see more of the guts on one of these (though older).

Thanks again

TheMatt

Basically, internal expansion slots are reserved for Wifi. 802.11b/g and some a/b/g cards are mini PCI, and 802.11a/b/g/n and most a/b/g cards are mini PCIe.

The only upgradable video cards in laptops are those with MXM video cards, and unfortunately Leveno has yet to produce a laptop using the MXM standard. The 7300 in that laptop has 128 MB dedicated, and can use another 128 MB from the system RAM.

markm75

Well.. I just bought a laptop.. around 700 with shipping and all.. new.. hopefully the CPU is good enough for vista 32bit for a few years at least.. I dont think it was a true dual core 2 though. (certainly not 667mhz like the e1505 we just got at work).

The graphics is just integrated intel.. I guess that should work ok, maybe even for some minor 3d in progs like Maya 8. At the very least I can do web/programming type work easily.

I'm also nearly 100% sure this laptop's bg card can be swapped out with this unit, but nearly 100% sure there is no way to upgrade the video card since this is an integrated unit.

I'm not sure on CPU.. how easily can these be updated if need be? Whole motherboard swap I'm betting?

At any rate.. I didnt want to spend alot, but get decent "windows" performance.. so I think this one makes the cut.

I may also upgrade to 7200rpm, but as mentioned prior.. this may not help alot.

Cheers

TheMatt

I am pretty sure that wireless card will not work because that is probably a mini PCIe wireless card, and you have a mini PCI slot.

As for the CPU, you will need to upgrade it for gaming. Unfortunately, you are limited by your FSB. The best CPU your motherboard can physically handle is the Core 2 Duo T5300 (1.73 GHz), but your BIOS might not support that. The best CPU that your BIOS likely supports and that your board can take is the Core Duo T2250 (1.73 GHz). The bottleneck in your CPU is the fact that it is dual core but only has 1 MB total L2 cache.

markm75

How can you tell what the max cpu the motherboard will take? I guess one way would be to see if the ebay seller gives me the dell packing slip with the part number of the motherboard?

I take it the current CPU, you dont think is socket M ? IE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...MP=OTC-Froogle Wont work?

How can you tell if it has mini PCIe or not as well?

As far as non gaming or 3d design.. how do you think I will fair? The e1505 with the newer CPU at work comes in at 3.1 windows index, 700 or so 3dmark 06, with its integrated 7300 geforce.. I'm betting this one will be alittle worse overall index wise, but still very capable for a few years?

Thanks for the help

TheMatt

The reason the T5600 won't work is because it has an FSB of 667 MHz, but the max FSB of that laptop's motherboard is 533 MHz. You need to get the T5200 or T5300, which have a 533 MHz FSB.

Also, the reason I know that card won't work is because 802.11b/g mini PCI express cards are non-existent (Why? Because they cannot transfer data fast enough that the faster mini PCIe interface is necessary), so you must have a mini PCI slot, and there are no mini PCI 802.11b/g/n cards that use the mini PCI interface (Why? Because those cards transfer data so fast that the mini PCI interface would be a bottleneck).

I'm guessing with those graphics and CPU, you will get around 300 on 3Dmark05. It is still a good laptop, just don't put Vista on it. It is a much heavier OS, and will take up many more system resources.

markm75

I would think it would take the t5600, but the fsb would default to 533 though? Or perhaps the motherboard specs are higher rated than that? They are both socket M are they not?

As far as the 802.11.. here is the card: http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-Wireless-15...QQcmdZViewItem This is the wireless N one, its mini pci-e..

I'll have to cracker open when I get it to see if it has the mini pci-e slot.. Any ideas of typical places to look inside (ie: under battery compartment etc)?

TheMatt

Look next to the RAM for the wireless card. They tend to be around that area on the bottom.

As for the processor... Yes they both are socket M. If you do put that processor in, I see one of three possibilities happening:

1. The processor is incompatible, and the laptop fails to POST because of it.
2. The processor is compatible, but is underclocked at 1.46 GHz because the FSB defaults to 533 MHz.
3. The Processor is compatible, and runs at full speed. You may or may not experience future issues with the 667 MHz FSB.

markm75

Thanks for all the help.. I guess it will be hit or miss depending on what my bios can handle (or if the bios can be upgraded)..

Here is my grand summary thanks to all the input.. things are much clearer:

-------------------
I tabulated that i could probably put in the 667mhz ram and a 2.0ghz dual core2 cpu (if the bios even takes these/at full speed per comments above).. i could also do the mini pcie wirelessn.. total cost.. around $470 ontop of the 630 already paid.. so still less than $1499, but not by much.

Summarizing again:

IE: ram: http://www.wiredzone.com/itemdesc.as...source=froogle

cpu: http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=T72...01480e3800d7e1
or
cpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...MP=OTC-Froogle or http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=T5600BOX

802.11n http://www.softarcade.net/Dell-rj421-_p_1255-22379.html

then sell the old parts on ebay to make back some of the cash I guess..

But...
I shoulda realized the dedicated card issue b4 i got this laptop, now I'm stuck eternally with the intel 950 chipset... unless I could just put in a whole other motherboard, the one that takes the dedicated card.. but I dont know how i'd know if that would fit in the e1505.. they all should be the same chasis I would think though. But then again, the cost would probably the same as just doing it right from the start.


I would probably want to call Dell and ask them (if they even give me a straight answer, as often their support is terrible) about the cpu compatibility...

------------------------------------


Last question.. I know the dell graphics card can be upgraded if its dedicated to start with.. is this the same with all brands of laptops.. ie: HP or Toshiba or Acer or is it hit or miss?

Thanks again

markm75

Does anyone know of any brands of laptops out there that support 4GB of ram? The only one I know of is the Toshiba A135 (i think it was 135)...

Thanks