Backup with Kangaru

Col Colt · 12-10-2005, 12:21 PM

I recently bought Kangaru PC Clone to back up my hard drive. It comes with a WD HDD and other hardware for doing so using their "Migrate Easy" software. The process went smoothly but, as for doing a differential backup, I bought True Image 9.0. I think I did it correctly but was wondering after my first differential backup, if I have to periodically do another full backup? This is especially terue in light of a statement I read in the .pdf file they offer (Acronis) about how to do this. The statement read, "An incremental or differential backup created after a disk is defragmented might be considerably larger than usual. This is because the defragmentation program changes file locations on disk and the backups reflect these changes.Therefore, it is recommended that you re-create a full backup after disk defragmentation."

So, in light of that, even if I do a full backup today, for instance, then next week do a differential backup but decided to defrag before that, I read into this that I should do another full backup. Seems rather mundane to do that in that short period of time. Or, should this be necessary only after X-amount of differential backups?

**linderman** · 12-10-2005, 01:31 PM

Colt:

as you have figured out proper backing up can be daunting at best / the process greatly depends on what level of security you want. if you want up to the minute back-up then after say two months worth of computer usage a drive is naturally going to get deframented. I believe what they are suggesting is after you perform a disk defrag of the drive in question / then the safest option is to re-do a full back-up and not a partial / other wise if you choose a partial back-up (this method generally only copies files that have changed or been added since the last back-up) if you choose a partial back-up and have done a disk defrag / disk defrag has the ability to change the location of file bits to make the drive more efficient >>> so in retrospect; if you are doing an incremental back-up after a disk defrag then the coping program will not be able to look in the correct location for data bits that may have been moved = less than desirable back-up

to cut to the chase / after you defrag your drive; if everything is cool and running well then do another FULL back-up

you should back-up at least every two weeks / then if nothing else you know exactly what you lost if your drive crashes today and your last back-up was 13 days ago :)

one thing we should all consider / with drives being made big & cheaper every day >>> you must also take into consideration that cheaper also equals less quality / therefore you SHOULD expect more drive failures then back in the old days when drives were very expensive / therefore if you cant accept data and program loss then you better be backing up as fast as you are changing the drives contents / i back up every week personally or everytime I add soemthing critical (things that would really make me sick to lose >>> business accounting spreadsheets etc / I back up each time I change them to a blank cd-r disk !!!

backing up is only mundane until you have a total disk death !!! then you will quickly learn the flaws in your back up procedures !!

a couple of months ago I got to show off for my brother / we had an electrical storm at work and it fried my main hard drive at work even though we run UPS at each work station / I simply booted to my clone and never lost a key stroke >>>>> my Bro was in awe >>> a like happening for that boy means countless hours playing with tape drives ewwwwww!!

goodluck

joe

Col Colt · 12-10-2005, 02:31 PM

Hmmmmm...what it is, is that I have a program called DiskKeeper that defrags all day long and/or I can also manually have it to alalysize the disk and it may come up with say, 130 fragmented files and 200 excess fragments. If I decide to defrag manually and then set it again to defrag all day everyday (as it suggests), then I should do another full backup? Since DiskKeeper defrags daily, that wouldn't give much room for a differential backup without having to do a full backup often...which means re-formatting the HDD. That all seems like a pain to me or am I reading this wrong? When I was using BackUpMy PC software, I did a differential about twice a week. Initially when I did a full back up with that system it took around 12-15 CD's...and a long laborious task in that after all that, it wanted to verify which took a while again and that's why I abandoned that system in favor of the Kangaru system which includes a new HDD. But, if you have to re-format and then do another full backup every week, that seems as bad as the other system. I'm not sure if I can re-format with the software that came with Acronis True Image or not. I like the Kangaru system because everything, including the HDD, is external and I just have to hook up to a USB slot, power everything up with the included hardware and it's ready to go.

**linderman** · 12-10-2005, 04:00 PM

please understand I have never used kangaroo (<sp) ???? but i am a real fan of cloning and have used many cloning programs / you shouldnt need to reformat you drive every time you opt for a full back-up / a full back-up is just the selection of the longer process of writing to the drive every bit of data not just the changed or added files; however I am interested as heck ??? why are you doing such a lengthy defrag every day ??????? such an indepth defrag should not be required more than once per month ?????

questions ????

joe

Col Colt · 12-10-2005, 05:15 PM

linderman-not doing a lengthy defrag everyday but, what Diskeeper does is keep in check the process of fragmented files. It does this all day but only at certain intervals. Sometimes (about once a week) I'll check on how it's doing and if I find it's lagged behind a bit(say, 1100 files showing as fragmented) I'll run it manually de defrag. That's pretty much the way I understand that program. Here's a better explaination...

http://www.executive.com/diskeeper/h...1&SId=2&CId=13

You mentioned it wasn't necessary to reformat the drive after I've already done a full back up, say-maybe a few weeks back. If I don't, seems it will just try to write on whatever amount of space is left on the drive and may not be able to finish. Guess I don't understand how that works as I was always told anytime you do a full back up and there's something already on your HDD that process of reformatting is necessary.

**linderman** · 12-10-2005, 05:21 PM

well the program i use xxclone doesnt need to be formatted clean each time for a full back-up to occur ?????

sorry i cant speak from experience on yours / unfortunately some trial and error are in order here >>> i guess

diskkeeper sounds like a keeper !! thumbs up

joe

**linderman** · 12-10-2005, 05:57 PM

after reading the operation manual for your acronis 9.0 (that is the back-up you should be using for both operations --- cloning and imaging

by the sounds of things / you will create an acronis sucure zone which is a section of your hard drive which will receive the full or incremental/differiential back up if you are always doing differential or full back-ups to the zone >>> it will automatically delete the oldest back-up in favor of the newer version >>>> so the answer being --- no you dont have to reformatt every time you choose to perform a new back-up >>>>> the only advice I would give you is selection of the size of the secure zone ???? I would make the size of the secure zone slightly larger than three times the size of a FULL back-up / then each time you select full back-up you will be very protected >>>. every forth back-up will delete the oldest of the three previous full back-up versions ?????? make sense ????

the only reason people opt for incremental or also called differential back-ups is to reduce the amount of time it takes to back-up your system >>> incremental back-ups take less time than full versions hmmmm

now you CAN set set that program to do a full back-up at night in unattended mode/ then you wont care how long it takes !!!!! and to eleviate your concerns about the disk defrag constantly changing the file locations thru optimization >>> this can be addressed by ONLY performing full back-ups !!!

I would suggest your perfrom a full back-up every friday nite = unattended mode ???? it wont get any easier than that !!!!! no mundane there !!

enjoy

joe

Col Colt · 12-10-2005, 06:41 PM

Yep- I like Diskeeper...had it for a couple of years through the different upgrades and it's never faltered like most other programs.

I think I could handle a full backup every Friday. That should be no big thing. I read all that .pdf file but, sometimes things just don't sink in. Much obliged for the time and info!! I'll give it a go.

12-10-2005, 12:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
Col Colt Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 111 OS: WinXP	Backup with Kangaru I recently bought Kangaru PC Clone to back up my hard drive. It comes with a WD HDD and other hardware for doing so using their "Migrate Easy" software. The process went smoothly but, as for doing a differential backup, I bought True Image 9.0. I think I did it correctly but was wondering after my first differential backup, if I have to periodically do another full backup? This is especially terue in light of a statement I read in the .pdf file they offer (Acronis) about how to do this. The statement read, "An incremental or differential backup created after a disk is defragmented might be considerably larger than usual. This is because the defragmentation program changes file locations on disk and the backups reflect these changes.Therefore, it is recommended that you re-create a full backup after disk defragmentation." So, in light of that, even if I do a full backup today, for instance, then next week do a differential backup but decided to defrag before that, I read into this that I should do another full backup. Seems rather mundane to do that in that short period of time. Or, should this be necessary only after X-amount of differential backups?

12-10-2005, 01:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,437 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	Colt: as you have figured out proper backing up can be daunting at best / the process greatly depends on what level of security you want. if you want up to the minute back-up then after say two months worth of computer usage a drive is naturally going to get deframented. I believe what they are suggesting is after you perform a disk defrag of the drive in question / then the safest option is to re-do a full back-up and not a partial / other wise if you choose a partial back-up (this method generally only copies files that have changed or been added since the last back-up) if you choose a partial back-up and have done a disk defrag / disk defrag has the ability to change the location of file bits to make the drive more efficient >>> so in retrospect; if you are doing an incremental back-up after a disk defrag then the coping program will not be able to look in the correct location for data bits that may have been moved = less than desirable back-up to cut to the chase / after you defrag your drive; if everything is cool and running well then do another FULL back-up you should back-up at least every two weeks / then if nothing else you know exactly what you lost if your drive crashes today and your last back-up was 13 days ago :) one thing we should all consider / with drives being made big & cheaper every day >>> you must also take into consideration that cheaper also equals less quality / therefore you SHOULD expect more drive failures then back in the old days when drives were very expensive / therefore if you cant accept data and program loss then you better be backing up as fast as you are changing the drives contents / i back up every week personally or everytime I add soemthing critical (things that would really make me sick to lose >>> business accounting spreadsheets etc / I back up each time I change them to a blank cd-r disk !!! backing up is only mundane until you have a total disk death !!! then you will quickly learn the flaws in your back up procedures !! a couple of months ago I got to show off for my brother / we had an electrical storm at work and it fried my main hard drive at work even though we run UPS at each work station / I simply booted to my clone and never lost a key stroke >>>>> my Bro was in awe >>> a like happening for that boy means countless hours playing with tape drives ewwwwww!! goodluck joe __________________ I still know nothing and I respect that fact, striving to improve and, along the way, help anyone that comes from the place that I used to be! Power Supply Selection LEARN TO BACK-UP YOUR DATA FREE & EASY YouTube - Runtime Software DriveImage XML tutorial

12-10-2005, 04:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,437 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	please understand I have never used kangaroo (<sp) ???? but i am a real fan of cloning and have used many cloning programs / you shouldnt need to reformat you drive every time you opt for a full back-up / a full back-up is just the selection of the longer process of writing to the drive every bit of data not just the changed or added files; however I am interested as heck ??? why are you doing such a lengthy defrag every day ??????? such an indepth defrag should not be required more than once per month ????? questions ???? joe __________________ I still know nothing and I respect that fact, striving to improve and, along the way, help anyone that comes from the place that I used to be! Power Supply Selection LEARN TO BACK-UP YOUR DATA FREE & EASY YouTube - Runtime Software DriveImage XML tutorial

12-10-2005, 05:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
Col Colt Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 111 OS: WinXP	linderman-not doing a lengthy defrag everyday but, what Diskeeper does is keep in check the process of fragmented files. It does this all day but only at certain intervals. Sometimes (about once a week) I'll check on how it's doing and if I find it's lagged behind a bit(say, 1100 files showing as fragmented) I'll run it manually de defrag. That's pretty much the way I understand that program. Here's a better explaination... http://www.executive.com/diskeeper/h...1&SId=2&CId=13 You mentioned it wasn't necessary to reformat the drive after I've already done a full back up, say-maybe a few weeks back. If I don't, seems it will just try to write on whatever amount of space is left on the drive and may not be able to finish. Guess I don't understand how that works as I was always told anytime you do a full back up and there's something already on your HDD that process of reformatting is necessary. Last edited by Col Colt; 12-10-2005 at 05:17 PM.

12-10-2005, 05:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,437 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	well the program i use xxclone doesnt need to be formatted clean each time for a full back-up to occur ????? sorry i cant speak from experience on yours / unfortunately some trial and error are in order here >>> i guess diskkeeper sounds like a keeper !! thumbs up joe __________________ I still know nothing and I respect that fact, striving to improve and, along the way, help anyone that comes from the place that I used to be! Power Supply Selection LEARN TO BACK-UP YOUR DATA FREE & EASY YouTube - Runtime Software DriveImage XML tutorial Last edited by linderman; 12-10-2005 at 05:23 PM.

12-10-2005, 02:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
Col Colt Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 111 OS: WinXP	Hmmmmm...what it is, is that I have a program called DiskKeeper that defrags all day long and/or I can also manually have it to alalysize the disk and it may come up with say, 130 fragmented files and 200 excess fragments. If I decide to defrag manually and then set it again to defrag all day everyday (as it suggests), then I should do another full backup? Since DiskKeeper defrags daily, that wouldn't give much room for a differential backup without having to do a full backup often...which means re-formatting the HDD. That all seems like a pain to me or am I reading this wrong? When I was using BackUpMy PC software, I did a differential about twice a week. Initially when I did a full back up with that system it took around 12-15 CD's...and a long laborious task in that after all that, it wanted to verify which took a while again and that's why I abandoned that system in favor of the Kangaru system which includes a new HDD. But, if you have to re-format and then do another full backup every week, that seems as bad as the other system. I'm not sure if I can re-format with the software that came with Acronis True Image or not. I like the Kangaru system because everything, including the HDD, is external and I just have to hook up to a USB slot, power everything up with the included hardware and it's ready to go.

12-10-2005, 05:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,437 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	after reading the operation manual for your acronis 9.0 (that is the back-up you should be using for both operations --- cloning and imaging by the sounds of things / you will create an acronis sucure zone which is a section of your hard drive which will receive the full or incremental/differiential back up if you are always doing differential or full back-ups to the zone >>> it will automatically delete the oldest back-up in favor of the newer version >>>> so the answer being --- no you dont have to reformatt every time you choose to perform a new back-up >>>>> the only advice I would give you is selection of the size of the secure zone ???? I would make the size of the secure zone slightly larger than three times the size of a FULL back-up / then each time you select full back-up you will be very protected >>>. every forth back-up will delete the oldest of the three previous full back-up versions ?????? make sense ???? the only reason people opt for incremental or also called differential back-ups is to reduce the amount of time it takes to back-up your system >>> incremental back-ups take less time than full versions hmmmm now you CAN set set that program to do a full back-up at night in unattended mode/ then you wont care how long it takes !!!!! and to eleviate your concerns about the disk defrag constantly changing the file locations thru optimization >>> this can be addressed by ONLY performing full back-ups !!! I would suggest your perfrom a full back-up every friday nite = unattended mode ???? it wont get any easier than that !!!!! no mundane there !! enjoy joe __________________ I still know nothing and I respect that fact, striving to improve and, along the way, help anyone that comes from the place that I used to be! Power Supply Selection LEARN TO BACK-UP YOUR DATA FREE & EASY YouTube - Runtime Software DriveImage XML tutorial

12-10-2005, 06:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Col Colt Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 111 OS: WinXP	Yep- I like Diskeeper...had it for a couple of years through the different upgrades and it's never faltered like most other programs. I think I could handle a full backup every Friday. That should be no big thing. I read all that .pdf file but, sometimes things just don't sink in. Much obliged for the time and info!! I'll give it a go.