sbergstc

Need a little help with a prob that has gotten to be a real pain! I have a WD 500gb external drive a little over a year old, partitioned into 2 x 250gb drives (I: & J:). I also have a WD 1TB drive (K:). These drives are connected via a newly replaced Belkin 7-port powered USB hub (I thought that this may have been the culprit... but, alas, prob still happening with the new hub). I also replaced the usb cable from drive to hub with a new gold connector type.

The problem: Over the last week or so, each time the drive is accessed it appears to be disconnected (even tho its listed in Windows explorer) and has to reconnect before any folders/files can be accessed. All folders/files access as normal; but if the drive needs to accessed by another source a little while later, say a backup, then the same thing begins all over again.

I have an HP tower 3.0ghz/3.5gb ram/XP3. The drives are set for "optimize for quick removal" in the Hardware Properties. I have checked the power settings for all my usb ports, they are off. I've attached the hub to different ports on the back of the tower as well as the ports on the front. No difference... As I mentioned above I replaced the hub and the cable. In my device manager list I have 4 USB host controllers and 1 USB2 host controller (I don't know which is which).

Over the last couple of days I have used the WD diagnostic tools to run scans on both external drives because I was having the same problem with the 1TB drive as well. After running the WD scan on the 1TB drive, errors were found and I chose to repair them. The disconnecting problem has not repeated so far on this drive. I ran the test on the 500GB drive but no errors were found... go figure. There is also an HP Personal Drive that connects via a slot in the tower (H:). This drive has never exhibited any problems whatsoever; it is accessed frequently as it holds My Documents folder.

BTW, I also had a similar problem with a third WD 500GB drive where the tower actually stopped finding it at all most of the time... I tried the diagnostic tools and reformatted, but it didn't help, so I moved this data to the 1TB drive. This drive is recognized by my laptop, so I think the problem lies with the tower.

I'm planning to uninstall all usb controllers and let them reinstall after reboot as I read somewhere on this forum... I will also try to remember to check the USB settings in the BIOS... Beyond that, I am out of ideas.

I would appreciate any suggestions that will help eliminate this problem.

Sorry for the long winded post
sbergstc

raptor_pa

Pull the drives out of the USB enclosures and install them as internal drives. USB drives seem to run hotter due to not being able to disspiate heat. I have always felt USB drives are great for portable storage, running backups, but fall far short of internal drives for day to day use for file storage. Eliminating the USB interface eliminates all the issues with power, desktop clutter and the chance of knocking a spinning drive over. All yo need to do is look through the posts on here for failed or failing External drives - :)

sbergstc

Unfortunately, I want the data to be portable...

Also, in case it's pertinent... Under computer management, both I: & J: are listed as healthy... I is listed as the Primary Partition followed by J as the Logical Drive within the Extended Partition.

H: is listed as a logical drive within the extended partition, but there is only 1 partition... why is this?

K: is listed as the Primary Partition and only 1 partition. This seems correct so why doesn't H: appear the same way? And does it really matter ?

sbergstc

raptor_pa

Can you post a screen cap of the disk management window? It sounds like a USB port problem but hard to be sure.... Do these drives have their own power supplies or are they powered from the USB ports

sbergstc

Here's a pic...
They have their own power supplies. The HP drive in the tower is powered separately within the tower somehow (if that matters).
sbergstc

Attached Images

CMgmt.jpg (166.1 KB, 5 views)

raptor_pa

Hmmmmm no good idea, everything looks normal - you might try turning off hibernation if enabled, and make sure the only thing set up in power saving is to turn the monitor off, not to turn off drives.... also not sure what it would have to do with it, but if your BIOS has an option to run USB in legacy or compatibility mode, toggle that to whatever the other setting is and try it..

sbergstc

It's really kind of strange... I have my printer plugged into that hub as well as a dongle for a little used program (unhelpful:)) and a craft cutter that is rarely used (again unhelpful :))... Before I replaced the hub, there were times when it seemed the printer would disappear too. I would go to device mgr and search for hardware changes and it would find it again. Given that the printer is used sporadically, it wasn't as noticeable a problem as the drives dropping in and out. This is another reason that lead me to purchase the new hub.

Since the install of the new hub I've not noticed any printer drops, but with the sporadic use it's hard to tell. I'm wondering if there were/are a couple of separate things happening and the new hub solved part, and the error check of drive K solved another (for only that drive though), but there is still something else wrong causing the I J problems.

I have a mouse plugged into the rear tower USB port, a keyboard plugged into another of the rear USB ports and then the hub is in a 3rd. There is one other plus 2 in the front. I have not had problems with either the keyboard or the mouse dropping in and out, yet when I switched the hub from the 3rd to the empty 4th and then to the front ports, the problem was still evident. Do these ports function separate or are they somehow linked? Either way, doesn't make sense to me. Especially if they function separately since the front ones have been rarely used.

Forgive me for going on and on... I've just spent so much time trying to figure this out... I will be upset if these drives can't be expected to last even 2 years if the problem lies with them :(.

Thanks for your help.
sbergstc

sbergstc

I disabled hibernation already and the power settings are not used. I turn the monitor off manually. I'll check the bios tomorrow...

Thanks again... will check back tomorrow with any additional info. Gonna hit the sack...
sbergstc

raptor_pa

If they are constntly under power, I can see two years - we see a LOT of USB devices come in for recoveries, I really think they are heat problems. I had an 18 month old Simpletech drive that contained a 250 GB sata drive go south - a problem with the SA area that could have been heat related.

sbergstc

Is there a way for them to shut down when not in use? I do leave my computer on almost 24/7 as when I use hibernation or standby items plugged into the hub don't automatically reconnect. This isn't a problem except for the External drives...this results in "all data could not be saved errors" upon reinitialization. This may not be a problem anymore since I switched to the "quick disconnect" choice for both drives; I haven't given it a try. I would use hibernation if that problem has stopped.

raptor_pa

You could also disable delayed writes for the drives, this will also eliminate dta could not be saved errors, probably not going to be a major hit in performance...

sbergstc

OK... I went into the BIOS and found the entry "USB Legacy Mode"; there are 3 options...

1. auto
2. enabled
3. disabled

Auto was chosen and I changed it to enabled. So far, last hour or so, I haven't noticed any drops of I: & J: when I access them via Windows Explorer...

However, now that I've changed that setting I get a message when I try to populate the volume info for any drive (device manager>disk drives>any drive>right click - properties>volume tab - populate. It reads "Volume information for this disk cannot be found. This may happen if the disk is a 1394 or a USB device on a Windows 2000 machine." Is this related to the Legacy option change to enabled? Before it would list the partitions on the drive.

To your last post... Isn't disabling delayed writes the same as choosing the "optimize for quick removal" option within the hardware properties (via Device Manager like above)? This is the option I've chosen for all external drives; it did stop the "data loss errors"...

OT of my other issue... I found an unused 500GB esata drive from a DVR that I installed internally to this PC this afternoon. Problem is there isn't actually a "slot" to screw this drive into. It fits snugly inside the case, but I guess I'd like to know exactly how stupid it might be to use the drive this way...

Plus, I changed all but one of my partitions to primary using Partition Magic (leaving the C os/D recovery/E - extended data alone), just because :) Hopefully this isn't also a mistake.

Thanks for your input...
Sbergstc

raptor_pa

Making all primary shouyld be OK, and yeah I would leave the c drive alone. I also try to avoid third party tools for modifying partition tables unless it is absolutely necessary- too easy to get in there and muck around and cause more problems :) The legacy setting is probably what caused those messages, also probably not an issue. I would keep an eye on it, play with the settings and see which one gives you the best outcome.... it might be the auto let it toggle between and caused it to drop out... ??? just best guess at this point LOL...
I would assume the disbale delayed writes would be the same as enable quick removal, but not sure on that, never checked to see if they are the same thing. If it did stop the data loss message then it apparently does LOL.

sbergstc

You are so patient with all my questions...

The I & J drives have only dropped once since my 1st post today, and that may have been due to the use of Partition Magic and not really a drop. It wasn't really a disconnect/reconnect... I can tell because it didn't reset system restore like it had been doing (it's set to not monitor all external drives and would reset to default of monitor). I'll be watching closely over the next couple of days...

Do you think I could put the Legacy setting back to auto and it would continue working like it is now (the way its supposed to work)?

And, you overlooked the ? I asked about installing a 500 esata drive in my tower... No bay, just laying in there... Is this a big mistake?

Thanks again for all your time and help.
Sbergstc

p.s. I'd also like to mention that whatever has been done has really made Windows Explorer react much faster... hope that keeps working.

raptor_pa

Sorry missed that one, I have added 4 drives that were attached with stick back velcro to the bottom of the case :) biggest trick is to make sure the drives aren't going to get knocked around in the case. I would play with the legacy settings and see which gives the best results... say go a week with the current and track any failures, then try the next and track for a week, then finally try auto and track - pick the best setting ..

sbergstc

Thanks for the Velcro tip... I'll use it.

I guess I spoke too soon about the disconnect/reconnect issue. It has happened again, however, it did not reset the system restore to monitor for those two drives... Which is what the bigger part of the problem was to me. So I'll keep an eye on it for a few more days and then change the Legacy setting to disabled and see how that goes... then set it to Auto again and watch some more. As long as it doesn't waste space with the system restore being turned on it's not as problematic.

Thanks,
Sbergstc

sbergstc

I don't know if I should start a new thread, as I'm uncertain whether this may be related to the original issue...

Seems that the drives are now working properly; definitely the K Drive has no problems whatsoever. I did use WD diagnostic tools to both units and all has been pretty good since then. HOWEVER, now when I SHUT DOWN the computer there is a recurring problem upon startup.

I shut down the computer a few times a week to reset things and give it a break as I leave it running for days at a time. Since resolving the initial External Drive issue I'm having a new problem...

When I start the computer (HP XP SP3 MCE) after a full shut down, it stops when it gets to the choose OS Window (i think this is what it's called). I.E. when it goes past the blue HP window (where you can choose to access troubleshooting, F8, Recovery Module, etc.) it goes to a black DOS style OS window where it lists Windows XP and a count down from 1, 0, etc. Usually when it hits 0 it goes forward with the loading process. Now it just stops and everything freezes (no keyboard activity; when I press num lock or caps lock the lights do not go off and on). I then press the power button for 5-6 seconds to turn off and press the start button again to start up.

At this point, after startup and I get to my desktop, there is a problem with 1 of the external drives (I & J) and a "new hardware" wizard starts. Unknown USB... I try to install, but it says it is unable to find the drivers needed. The two drives I & J are not in Windows Explorer and the 500GB WD external drive does not appear in device manager. I tried unplugging the power/usb cables to the drive and resetting them, but that doesn't do anything. This is why I'm wondering if it may be related to the USB legacy setting that was changed to Enabled from Auto.

At this point, I go to Start > Turn off computer > Restart and everything loads and shows up as it should.

In a nutshell, if I've shut down the tower I have to restart a total of 3 times to get it running properly:

1. Start after Shut Down Computer; freezes
2. Press the power button to turn it off
3. Use the power button to start again
4. Restart via Start > Turn off computer > Restart

Any suggestions???
Sbergstc

raptor_pa

When you shutdown the tower, are you using the full start -> shutdown -> shutdown sequenc and letting windows shut down completely before reapplying power> It sioulds like the screen you are seeing is the startup option screen if windows went down dirty, like a hard power off before windows had completed it's shutdown....

sbergstc

I always use the start>shutdown>shutdown sequence. It has stayed shutdown from 6-24 hours before pressing the start button to turn on tower. I'll go thru the process now and take notes to make sure I'm explaining the information correctly.

sbergstc

When I chose to shutdown>shutdown, it was taking forever... so I did it again thru the task manager; chose Shutdown from the TM taskbar and "turnoff computer" in the menu list. It shut down promptly. (I may have been impatient in the past and made a 2nd attempt to shut down; could this have caused the problem???)

At this point I unplugged my USB hub since the external drives are connected to this hub. I unplugged the hub and hit the power button to start up. And surprise, it started up fine. I let it finish until there was little or no hard disk activity and plugged the USB hub back in. A few dings later all three drive letters (I J K) appeared in Windows explorer.

I then shutdown again... start>shutdown>shutdown and it promptly turned off. Waited 25-30 seconds and pressed the power button. It started like it's supposed to... I guess something that needed to fully shutdown or reinitialize wasn't able to do so while the hub was plugged in... I'm not technically literate enough to know exactly what happened or why, but at least it's shutting down and starting up the way it is supposed to.

Thanks for your time again, Raptor.
Sbergstc