wolfwiser

Hi, I've had loads of trouble recently see here

Basically my motherboard had blown, which I put down to a power surge/my power supply - so I ended up changing my motherboard, power supply, RAM (as mobo only ran DDR2) and I seem to have the same problem before. Although there has been no burning smell as before.

All had been working fine, I shut down my PC as usual, yet when I came to power it up I get nothing, just power to my mouse via USB as I can see the optical light. I have recently ran a HD diagnostic program which said my HDs were fine (as supplied by Seagate, the manufacturer of my HDs).

So my question is could my processor or hard drives have caused my motherboard to fail, my hard drives have recently passed a manufacurers diagnostic test and my processor is running very cool. Or is there something else it could be???

I am totally stumped. Thanks for any ideas.

chauffeur2

G'Day wolfwiser,

I have just read the other thread inwhich you showed those photos, and subsequently replaced your motherboard.

Now what we need to know now is, what other components did you replace with the motherboard? The reason for asking this is that there is a strong possiblilty that when the last board 'fried' on you it might have taken out other components; such as, the CPU etc., and if you transferred any of them to this new board, they could be giving you grief now.

One stupid question though....have you made sure that all the mounting screws are insulated from the metal case mount, so as not to cause a short circuit?

wolfwiser

When I replaced my mobo I also replaced the PSU, RAM, cpu fan but the graphics card, TV tuner, 56k modem (although unused) and hard drives remain the same. I have been using my PC without issue for about 6 weeks. I have also added case fans as I noticed that my HD temperatures were a little on the high side.

What also adds to complications is that it had previously shut down with no problems whatsoever. I know the PC is clean from viruses/spyware.

Now this may seem a little strange but I had my new central heating system installed in my house on the same day so the ambient temperature may have risen slightly (only to ~23°C though) - though I gues this is just coincidence.

As my new mobo has built in graphics I can easily ditch my graphics card, but I have not had time yet to strip it to the barebones to see if it will POST. I have noticed that I a quick spin of my fans when I try to switch it on, only for milliseconds though.

How could everything seem fine and then it won't even POST???

chauffeur2

Hi again wolfwiser,

Did you replace the CPU at all?

wolfwiser

Thanks for your replies chauffeur2, I just reseated the CPU, as its a P4 3.4Ghz, I thought it was a bit expensive to replace as it seemed to be working fine. Could there have been a power surge that didn't cause the PC to shutdown but stopped it from POSTing next time?

chauffeur2

wolfwiser,

Did you get the CPU checked before you reinstalled it?

The reason I say this is that your last motherboard suffered some major 'frying' and it could have damaged the CPU, and the fault might not be apparent until it has been in operation for a while and starts to heat up.

Also, when you reseated the CPU, did you clean it up and replace the thermal paste? Failure to do this will cause grief too.

As far as a power surge is concerned....did any other electrical appliances in your home malfunction that you noticed...even for only a second or two?

Have you tried using a different power outlet in the house, because power sockets are expendable items too, and the last hiccup could have also done internal damage to that as well.
If you can get the troublesome machine to boot up, download Everest™ Home Edition [from my signature]; then give us the temps from the "Computer Section" under "Sensor".
This will throw light on to the fact about the CPU temperature.
Post back with the results.

wolfwiser

I didn't get my CPU checked, I thought if it worked it was OK!?

I'll try a different socket when I get home as I'm at work now. I wasn't aware that the CPU could seem OK for a while then cause problems, I hadn't really been pushing it much and the cooling I have is pretty good.

I used artic silver 5, and I did clean the old thermal paste off using iso-propanol. My CPU fan is a thermaltake big typhoon, and the temperatures I have seen in the recent past have been pretty cool, around 45°C if I remember rightly, the HD however were ~5-8°C higher.

I didn't notice any other power surge, I suppose its got to be the CPU, graphics card or the HDs as they are the only thing that remain from my last problems.

Can I rule out problems with the HDs as I cant even get to the BIOS?

So can a CPU be partially faulty? Its still strange as to why its just stopped working when all seemed well. Where do you think I should go from here and are any components safe to re-use if I were to build another PC, just would like to keep cost to a minimum.

dai

if your fans flicker and then die,take the m/b out of the case and check that you have the correct amount of standoffs
one for each hole in the m/b and that they align with the holes
set it up on a piece of cardboard with
cpu
video
ram
speaker
start it by touching the 2 pins the frobt on button connects to on the m/b
with a small screwdriver for a fraction of a second
if it posts put it back into the case in the same configuration and try it again

wolfwiser

Thanks I've just tried removing my tv tuner card, 56k modem, graphics card, hard drives (I have 2 x Seagate 200Gb).

I then removed my mobo battery and removed and replaced the cmos jumper, switched the monitor to the onboard graphics card and managed to get the system to boot. I then replaced the system HD and managed to get to windows (xp). I have yet to try my second HD (I'm scared!).

I'm not sure what has caused/cured the problem, or how to go on from here?

Also I have a micro ATX case, which with my PCI Express card, modem, 2Gb Ram, 2 x HDs, TV tuner, 450W PSU and 3.4Gb P4 processor in there, could it be a little too much and although I have 2 case fans....? Could this be the cause?

Thanks for all the help so far.

dai

450W PSU rings alarm bells put your specs into here
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp
based on a quality supply and add 30% to the result

wolfwiser

When I upgraded the motherboard etc, I also upgraded the PSU from a 350W to 450W, however if this is likely to be a problem then I'll look to replace it.

As I've managed to start windows successfully can I rule out the CPU or is this still possibly the cause? Also as the case is pretty cramped can you suggest a decent alternative to my current one

Is there anyway of finding out exactle what has caused the problem or is it a case of putting everything back until it no longer works?

I pleased I can boot up again, but still confused as to what the problem is/was.

Thanks again guys.

chauffeur2

Hi wolfwiser,

As dai suggested, that PSU might not be good enough for your needs; so go to the 'Power Supply Calculator' link in my signature, and assess the recommend 'size' that you really need; not forgetting to had 30% for performance.

Your CPU could still be faulty and the fault might not show up until it has been in operation for a while. Time will be the deciding factor with this.

In all probability the Graphics Card could have suffered in that 'frying' too.
Understand that your 'old' board had a pretty dramatic 'burn-out', going by the photos in that other thread, and it is quite possible that other component were 'taken out' with it, so it will be a process of elimination.

Even though you have successfully got Windows® to start, does not necessarily mean that all your woes are over.

Please re-read the other post that dai gave you, and follow his lead to determine the cause.

Post back with the results.

wolfwiser

Thansk for your continude support fellas, much appreciated. As for my PSU I recon I need approx 416W (including the additional 30%), however my PSU was based more on price and advertised wattage rather and little else. I shall look to replace it so I can rule it out in future.

Not great news that my troubles are far from over, I was thinking about upgrading mt graphics card so I shall probably do that too, hopefully eliminating that as a possible cause, the CPU however is a little too expensive at the moment to replace 'in case' it is at fault.

Is it safe to say my HDs are OK?

Cheers.

dai

run your specs through with the new graphics card in so you know what you need before you start
video and psu upgrades generally go hand in hand unless you have previously allowed for it
have you checked the hd's with the makers diognostic utility and run
chkdsk /r
on them

wolfwiser

As usual I have been having some problems The PC has taken to switching itself off, during normal operation.

As I thought this could be due to 'fried' components I removed most of them only to have the hassle of windows requiring me to authenticate my copy of XP, which I couldn't do as I had no modem.... Eventually got that sorted.

I am currently running with the onboard graphics and only one HD (which passed windows check disk and seagate diagnostics 100% problem free). My mouse started to stutter and jerk, even though I'd upgraded my graphics driver and then froze which is when the PC decided to restart itself.

Is the best way forward to run for a while without any additional PCI cards and then add tem back one at a time? Or do you believe it is a pwer supply issue?

Also can I be confident my hard drive is OK -i.e. are those tests reliable?

Thanks.

dai

when it switches itself off can you restrat it straight away or do you have to wait
the tests are reliable

wolfwiser

When it switched itself off it froze for a minute or so and then restarted straight into the BIOS and then windows started as usual.

chauffeur2

Hi again wolfwiser,

This issue could still be attributed to the RAM [not being totally seated properly], as well as the CPU.
As I mentioned earlier, the CPU won't show any signs of stress until its been running for a while.
When you reseated the CPU, did you reapply the thermal paste correctly? If you aren't too sure, just go to the link, in my signature, "Applying Artic Silver™ Thermal Paste", and double check please.

To adequately cover your needs, and taking into account dai's recommendation about including the new graphics with the PSU calculations; I sincerely believe that you need to look at a good quality 500W - 550W PSU. Based on quality and not price.

Have you been able to get any temperatures when the machine is operating, or isn't it on long enough?

Let us know the answers to these queries.

wolfwiser

I hear what you're saying about the power supply, it certainly will be upgraded when I change my graphics card. I think I'll just run frm the on-board for a while. I think I, like many don't pay too much attention to the PSU when often it is a cause of lots of peoples problems.

As for the RAM, it seems to be seated properly, and I followed the artic silver guide when changing mobo and again when changing cpu fan.

My temperture (from speed fan) are:

CPU 40°C
HD1 46°C (but I have seen thi at 51°C before)

Since removing hardware fom the PC it seems to run OK, I'm starting to suspect either the TV tuner or the ATI X300 (or related power issues). I shall run a more indepth (everest) scan when I get chance.

Also I shall see if there are any problems when my second drive is added then (I guess) the PSU seems more likely.... Any recommendations?

chauffeur2

Adding the second HDD will be the ultimate test, and I'm willing to bet that the PSU will be condemned here; and the temperatures will probably rise in sympathy too.

My recommendation for a PSU?... Have a look at one of these...
Antec NeoHE 550W Modular ATX2.0 PSU (CA-046-AN)... This might be a little on the dearer side, but it will give you all the juice that you'd need + good reliability. (In my opinion.) However it all boils down to the fact that you pay for what you get nowadays.