Small Form Factor PC

geek73 · 04-02-2007, 09:52 AM

I was wondering if anyone had dealings with these. I was looking around and seen the small cases, and I thought instead of building another full tower pc, it would look good in my front room with all my other stereo components..

Problem is I have no experience with the small form factor boxes.. Would like some recommendations on them if possible,

I would like to have it in my entertainment center,
I have an Onkyo TXSR804 receiver, The Klipsch Synergy Series (all speakers)
And a Velodyne SPL2 15 (nice 3k watt servo amp

)

Would like it to record tv that way I can get rid of my DVR box. I was looking at the new ATI All wonder but it seems a little bigger than the one I had while ago 9800 pro All in wonder..

And I already have the SB audigy with the digi drive so that wont be a problem..

Thanks for any input..

**forcifer** · 04-02-2007, 03:50 PM

small form factors are fine, just make sure your motherboard will fit. ive heard that many do work very well. i have seen a watercooled one that this person benched and got some pretty good scores. just make sure to get a motherboard that fits. either just get micro atx, or check if it will fit atx

geek73 · 04-03-2007, 08:05 AM

thanks forcifier.. I know about the bay atx motherboards, It is justr I have never dealt with the Baby at cases. Was just wondering if anyone had any positive results with any particular model..

like this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133035

**forcifer** · 04-03-2007, 02:38 PM

never delt with it, but id try for micro atx, and that case looks like it will work. another possible problem with be psu, but from what the reviews said that doesnt appear to be a problem. just dont expect a 1k pc power and cooling to fit

ebackhus · 04-04-2007, 02:42 PM

mATX, also called Micro ATX, is the board of choice for most small form factor builds. These boards are no larger than a small cake pan and though they are a bit limited for expandability, can be the basis of super power small systems. If you are looking to build a PC that will fit in with your other stereo components then I suggest something like this from ZALMAN.

**Ralck** · 04-09-2007, 10:06 AM

I've actually been researching this myself as I'd like to get a similar setup (though I won't have anywhere near the quality and power of your sound system

).

I would suggest you do some google searches on LinuxMCE and MythTV. If your not afraid of linux (and with something like Knoppmyth, it makes it incredibly easy) you could get a full-featured media center with even more features than WindowsMCE at no cost because it's open source!

Of course, I suggest looking at those first because you mentioned the ATi All-In-Wonder cards. Those are great cards (I have one myself), but because of the design and configuration (and ATi won't release the proper specs to make it compatible) it's not compatible with LinuxMCE/MythTV (I think there may be a "hack" for it which involves a lot of tweaking and modifying the kernel, but unless you understand wat you are doing their, it's probably not a good option).

Also, one thing you'll want to keep in mind is that most TV tuner cards are often not small form factor compatible (without a horizontal PCI board expansion). I believe myHDTV makes a low-profile card (which would fit into a small form factor case), but those are linux-only cards so you would have to use LinuxMCE or MythTV.

Finally, you'll want to decide if you want hi-def or standard def television. For about 200 dollars you can get a hi-def tuner with a hi-def antenna for OTA broadcast of HD content. However, you might not get a lot of HD channels (for example, my area of Rochester gets about 10-15 channels). Of course, you can also view standard def television on a HD card, but if that's all you want then a dedicated SD card might be a better option as it can be a lot cheaper. For SD cards look at Hauppauge as those are considered some of the best by many people.

Cheers and I'll try to update a little later with some good choices of HD and SD tuner alternatives and some links to LinuxMCE and MythTV.

**pharoah** · 04-09-2007, 12:16 PM

length limitations for a power supply are not a concern on the thermaltake lanbox.only thing you need to keep in mind on that one is you need a low profile cpu cooler.the power supply sets right above where the cpu will be.

geek73 · 04-10-2007, 08:57 PM

Thanks for the replies..

I have used SuSe Linux before and had a very good understanding of it.. Had it dual booting with Xp.. I still have version 9.1 on disc. Will have to brush up my skills again.. Once I got into overclocking and showboating I lost Linux but I will not be overclicking the cpu that goes in that box.. And yes I will be wanting to use an HD tv tuner card..I have a Hitachi HD tv and eveything is either connected by YBCR or fiber optic cables..

**PanamaGal** · 04-12-2007, 04:40 PM

I'm with ebackhus and would also recommend the Zalman. It is a great media center case, and fits right in with high-end stereo components. It does come at a much greater cost, but I doubt you'd be sorry. The more I work with Zalman products, the more impressed I am. I love zero complaints.

geek73 · 04-12-2007, 04:54 PM

Thanks PanamaGal and others.. After reading a bunch of reviews and thinking wha would look good in my frontroom I went with this. I already have it.. Forogt to post back. Going to be ordering the parts this friday.. Will keep you updated how it works.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...587&CatId=1507

geek73 · 04-14-2007, 07:01 AM

ok orderd the parts for this thing.. Will need some advice on the tv tuner or should I go and get the ATI al in wonder PCI-e version?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819105015

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128321 mobo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220144 Ram

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102005 SC

Just looking for the video card now or should I go with the video card and a tv tuner,

**Ralck** · 04-14-2007, 10:24 AM

That's a great looking case and some really good hardware to go in there!

As for tuner card, you have a few options? Have you looked into MythTV or LinuxMCE yet? If you want to use one of those, you can't use an All-In-Wonder card. So if you want one of those, look at the pcHDTV (linux-only brand) HD-5500, the Fusion 5 Gold, and the myHD MPD-130. There is also an ATi TV-Wonder (the TV-Wonders are compatible with MythTV/LinuxMCE, just not the All-In-Wonders), but I can't remember the name of it right now.

Unfortunately, I don't have any personal experience with any of them (yet

), but if you do google searches on them there are plenty of reviews.

Cheers!

ebackhus · 04-14-2007, 10:29 AM

I have a tuner card made by PixelView that is based on the BT878 chipset with a Conexant main chip. It works PERFECTLY. It doesn't do HD (only a few OTA HD channels exist here in SA) but does have an S-Video input which is great. Under PCLinuxOS it detected just right and worked flawlessly.

geek73 · 04-14-2007, 02:06 PM

I will be running Suse Linux on the box.. Have to brush up my skills again thugh..
Are you selling yours ebackhus?

geek73 · 04-14-2007, 02:08 PM

And I am trusting Linderman with the gigabyte board.

As I loved them a cooule years ago. But got stuick on a couple so went to asus. I am sure it will do just fine..

**Kalim** · 04-14-2007, 03:16 PM

I would advise this board: Abit Fatal1ty F-I90HD mATX
# LGA 775
# ATI® RX1250
# ATI® RX700
# FSB1066
# HDMI™ 1080P
# PCI-E X16
# Dual DDR2-800
# Gigabit Ethernet
# 7.1 CH HD Audio
# SATA 3G RAID
# RoHS Compliancy

The most hotly awaited board released this year. Ask Newegg if you don't believe me.

And the case would be the Micro Fly- black (without the PSU) or a Thermaltake LANBOX.

Just my HO.

geek73 · 04-14-2007, 03:33 PM

Naw I am not going Core Duo.. I love the opterons.. I bet this one will whoop some of the core duo's

I already order the parts, And I have the case.. I want it to look classy with my other stereo components..

Think this one looks a little nicer ya think?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...587&CatId=1507

Edit: I think your talking abut this Asus Board..As this has been a long time coming. But going AM2 not LGA 775
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131074

**Kalim** · 04-14-2007, 03:43 PM

No, the ASUS board is not mATX for SFF builds. That one is for SFF builds and it has many features not available in that market usually.

Sorry I didn't know you were after an AMD board. I thought you'd purchase the microprocessor afterwards and go either way.

minster9 · 04-15-2007, 12:35 AM

I had mini ATX before my present midtower. If you like playing brain surgeon,go for it. I hated working in it,there's no room. Of course,at that time,I had to use the flat ribbon cables. If I built another one,I'd definatlely use round cables. I just don't like 'em.

**Kalim** · 04-15-2007, 04:53 AM

I have an mATX build in a micro tower. While it's much harder to work and see in there (let alone troubleshooting, my hand barely fits in and replacing HSF is just such an impossibility), and heat and consequently noise builds up; I don't generally have anything against it. I have 2 150GB HDD's with the 80 wire flat cabling in there, CDRW/DVDRW combo, a FDD and display unit but graphics/sound/LAN is only onboard. PSU is a SeaSonic S12 380W and HSF is Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 (mostly a squeeze!). I actually like it more than any of my builds and use it as much as possible.

I have a spare ECS PF88 Extreme motherboard which is very useful to me many times (just got it back from someone who was borrowing it), in a modified MicroFly (to fit it) and it works just fine with P4/PM S775, S478, S479, and Athlon FX/Athlon 64/Sempron/Turion 64 S754 and S939 chips. It's a hybrid board using the EB SIMA card extension FYI. Makes my job a hella of a lot easier.

04-02-2007, 09:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
geek73 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 694 OS: SuSe Linux My System	Small Form Factor PC I was wondering if anyone had dealings with these. I was looking around and seen the small cases, and I thought instead of building another full tower pc, it would look good in my front room with all my other stereo components.. Problem is I have no experience with the small form factor boxes.. Would like some recommendations on them if possible, I would like to have it in my entertainment center, I have an Onkyo TXSR804 receiver, The Klipsch Synergy Series (all speakers) And a Velodyne SPL2 15 (nice 3k watt servo amp ) Would like it to record tv that way I can get rid of my DVR box. I was looking at the new ATI All wonder but it seems a little bigger than the one I had while ago 9800 pro All in wonder.. And I already have the SB audigy with the digi drive so that wont be a problem.. Thanks for any input.. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

04-02-2007, 03:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
forcifer ole' Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kansas City kansas Posts: 3,631 OS: Vista Premium 32 My System Blog Entries: 1	Re: Small Form Factor PC small form factors are fine, just make sure your motherboard will fit. ive heard that many do work very well. i have seen a watercooled one that this person benched and got some pretty good scores. just make sure to get a motherboard that fits. either just get micro atx, or check if it will fit atx __________________

04-03-2007, 08:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
geek73 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 694 OS: SuSe Linux My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC thanks forcifier.. I know about the bay atx motherboards, It is justr I have never dealt with the Baby at cases. Was just wondering if anyone had any positive results with any particular model.. like this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133035 __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

04-03-2007, 02:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
forcifer ole' Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kansas City kansas Posts: 3,631 OS: Vista Premium 32 My System Blog Entries: 1	Re: Small Form Factor PC never delt with it, but id try for micro atx, and that case looks like it will work. another possible problem with be psu, but from what the reviews said that doesnt appear to be a problem. just dont expect a 1k pc power and cooling to fit __________________

04-04-2007, 02:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,294 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	Re: Small Form Factor PC mATX, also called Micro ATX, is the board of choice for most small form factor builds. These boards are no larger than a small cake pan and though they are a bit limited for expandability, can be the basis of super power small systems. If you are looking to build a PC that will fit in with your other stereo components then I suggest something like this from ZALMAN. __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

04-09-2007, 10:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ralck TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,454 OS: 98SE/XP PRO/FC4 My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC I've actually been researching this myself as I'd like to get a similar setup (though I won't have anywhere near the quality and power of your sound system ). I would suggest you do some google searches on LinuxMCE and MythTV. If your not afraid of linux (and with something like Knoppmyth, it makes it incredibly easy) you could get a full-featured media center with even more features than WindowsMCE at no cost because it's open source! Of course, I suggest looking at those first because you mentioned the ATi All-In-Wonder cards. Those are great cards (I have one myself), but because of the design and configuration (and ATi won't release the proper specs to make it compatible) it's not compatible with LinuxMCE/MythTV (I think there may be a "hack" for it which involves a lot of tweaking and modifying the kernel, but unless you understand wat you are doing their, it's probably not a good option). Also, one thing you'll want to keep in mind is that most TV tuner cards are often not small form factor compatible (without a horizontal PCI board expansion). I believe myHDTV makes a low-profile card (which would fit into a small form factor case), but those are linux-only cards so you would have to use LinuxMCE or MythTV. Finally, you'll want to decide if you want hi-def or standard def television. For about 200 dollars you can get a hi-def tuner with a hi-def antenna for OTA broadcast of HD content. However, you might not get a lot of HD channels (for example, my area of Rochester gets about 10-15 channels). Of course, you can also view standard def television on a HD card, but if that's all you want then a dedicated SD card might be a better option as it can be a lot cheaper. For SD cards look at Hauppauge as those are considered some of the best by many people. Cheers and I'll try to update a little later with some good choices of HD and SD tuner alternatives and some links to LinuxMCE and MythTV. __________________ Power Supply Info Everyone Should Read! How to Post Your System Specs

04-09-2007, 12:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
pharoah TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,188 OS: vista business edition My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC length limitations for a power supply are not a concern on the thermaltake lanbox.only thing you need to keep in mind on that one is you need a low profile cpu cooler.the power supply sets right above where the cpu will be. __________________ Follow These Steps First Power Supply Selection Posting System Specs Oblivion Tweak Guide Video Drivers& Information TSF folding at home team 85015

04-10-2007, 08:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
geek73 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 694 OS: SuSe Linux My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC Thanks for the replies.. I have used SuSe Linux before and had a very good understanding of it.. Had it dual booting with Xp.. I still have version 9.1 on disc. Will have to brush up my skills again.. Once I got into overclocking and showboating I lost Linux but I will not be overclicking the cpu that goes in that box.. And yes I will be wanting to use an HD tv tuner card..I have a Hitachi HD tv and eveything is either connected by YBCR or fiber optic cables.. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

04-12-2007, 04:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
PanamaGal Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Panama Posts: 1,240 OS: WinXP Pro SP2; Windows Server 2003; Windows Vista Ultimate; Vista Business	Re: Small Form Factor PC I'm with ebackhus and would also recommend the Zalman. It is a great media center case, and fits right in with high-end stereo components. It does come at a much greater cost, but I doubt you'd be sorry. The more I work with Zalman products, the more impressed I am. I love zero complaints. __________________ It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.

04-12-2007, 04:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
geek73 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 694 OS: SuSe Linux My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC Thanks PanamaGal and others.. After reading a bunch of reviews and thinking wha would look good in my frontroom I went with this. I already have it.. Forogt to post back. Going to be ordering the parts this friday.. Will keep you updated how it works. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...587&CatId=1507 __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

04-14-2007, 07:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
geek73 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 694 OS: SuSe Linux My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC ok orderd the parts for this thing.. Will need some advice on the tv tuner or should I go and get the ATI al in wonder PCI-e version? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819105015 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128321 mobo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220144 Ram http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102005 SC Just looking for the video card now or should I go with the video card and a tv tuner, __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

04-14-2007, 10:24 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ralck TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,454 OS: 98SE/XP PRO/FC4 My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC That's a great looking case and some really good hardware to go in there! As for tuner card, you have a few options? Have you looked into MythTV or LinuxMCE yet? If you want to use one of those, you can't use an All-In-Wonder card. So if you want one of those, look at the pcHDTV (linux-only brand) HD-5500, the Fusion 5 Gold, and the myHD MPD-130. There is also an ATi TV-Wonder (the TV-Wonders are compatible with MythTV/LinuxMCE, just not the All-In-Wonders), but I can't remember the name of it right now. Unfortunately, I don't have any personal experience with any of them (yet ), but if you do google searches on them there are plenty of reviews. Cheers! __________________ Power Supply Info Everyone Should Read! How to Post Your System Specs

04-14-2007, 10:29 AM	#13 (permalink)
ebackhus Manager, Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: SATX Posts: 14,294 OS: WinXP Pro SP3/Windows 7 RTM My System Blog Entries: 28	Re: Small Form Factor PC I have a tuner card made by PixelView that is based on the BT878 chipset with a Conexant main chip. It works PERFECTLY. It doesn't do HD (only a few OTA HD channels exist here in SA) but does have an S-Video input which is great. Under PCLinuxOS it detected just right and worked flawlessly. __________________ ----------------------------- There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them. Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

04-14-2007, 02:06 PM	#14 (permalink)
geek73 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 694 OS: SuSe Linux My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC I will be running Suse Linux on the box.. Have to brush up my skills again thugh.. Are you selling yours ebackhus?

04-14-2007, 02:08 PM	#15 (permalink)
geek73 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 694 OS: SuSe Linux My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC And I am trusting Linderman with the gigabyte board. As I loved them a cooule years ago. But got stuick on a couple so went to asus. I am sure it will do just fine..

04-14-2007, 03:16 PM	#16 (permalink)
Kalim Roaming To Help Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,642 OS: Many	Re: Small Form Factor PC I would advise this board: Abit Fatal1ty F-I90HD mATX # LGA 775 # ATI® RX1250 # ATI® RX700 # FSB1066 # HDMI™ 1080P # PCI-E X16 # Dual DDR2-800 # Gigabit Ethernet # 7.1 CH HD Audio # SATA 3G RAID # RoHS Compliancy The most hotly awaited board released this year. Ask Newegg if you don't believe me. And the case would be the Micro Fly- black (without the PSU) or a Thermaltake LANBOX. Just my HO.

04-14-2007, 03:33 PM	#17 (permalink)
geek73 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 694 OS: SuSe Linux My System	Re: Small Form Factor PC Naw I am not going Core Duo.. I love the opterons.. I bet this one will whoop some of the core duo's I already order the parts, And I have the case.. I want it to look classy with my other stereo components.. Think this one looks a little nicer ya think? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...587&CatId=1507 Edit: I think your talking abut this Asus Board..As this has been a long time coming. But going AM2 not LGA 775 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131074 Last edited by geek73; 04-14-2007 at 03:36 PM.

04-14-2007, 03:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
Kalim Roaming To Help Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,642 OS: Many	Re: Small Form Factor PC No, the ASUS board is not mATX for SFF builds. That one is for SFF builds and it has many features not available in that market usually. Sorry I didn't know you were after an AMD board. I thought you'd purchase the microprocessor afterwards and go either way.

04-15-2007, 12:35 AM	#19 (permalink)
minster9 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 176 OS: windows 2000	Re: Small Form Factor PC I had mini ATX before my present midtower. If you like playing brain surgeon,go for it. I hated working in it,there's no room. Of course,at that time,I had to use the flat ribbon cables. If I built another one,I'd definatlely use round cables. I just don't like 'em.

04-15-2007, 04:53 AM	#20 (permalink)
Kalim Roaming To Help Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,642 OS: Many	Re: Small Form Factor PC I have an mATX build in a micro tower. While it's much harder to work and see in there (let alone troubleshooting, my hand barely fits in and replacing HSF is just such an impossibility), and heat and consequently noise builds up; I don't generally have anything against it. I have 2 150GB HDD's with the 80 wire flat cabling in there, CDRW/DVDRW combo, a FDD and display unit but graphics/sound/LAN is only onboard. PSU is a SeaSonic S12 380W and HSF is Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 (mostly a squeeze!). I actually like it more than any of my builds and use it as much as possible. I have a spare ECS PF88 Extreme motherboard which is very useful to me many times (just got it back from someone who was borrowing it), in a modified MicroFly (to fit it) and it works just fine with P4/PM S775, S478, S479, and Athlon FX/Athlon 64/Sempron/Turion 64 S754 and S939 chips. It's a hybrid board using the EB SIMA card extension FYI. Makes my job a hella of a lot easier.