kvscorpio

Hi all-
Thanks for taking time to offer sage advice.
Budget: 700-800 maybe more, hopefully less is more. =0)

Brands: don't want bad components.

Multitasking: Probably only multiple stuff running like Excel spreadsheet docs, a word processor doc and streaming music in the background. So light multitasking at best.

Gaming: Yes. Hope to play new games on 1650 X 1050 on high, like the eye candy if possible in this budget.

Calculations: Uhm, Not that I know of.

Overclocking: Nope. Scary stuff. May look into it on someone else's computer, hehe.

Storage: negligible, have backup storage NAS.

Legacy Support: Starting anew.

Operating System: I will be dual installing Ubuntu and Windows 7. I just was wondering which win7 version I need? The one that will run in XP mode?

Case: Mid or Full

Accessories: Nope

Recycled Components: Monitor, mouse and keyboard, speakers.

Stores: NewEgg or any suggested

Location: What country do you live in? U.S.A

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I saw the $800 dollar AMD build and was looking into that as you can get a multiprocessor for low $$.

Here's what I have so far looking into:

Case: COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail--$69.99

MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail--$109.99
There is some open box cheaper motherboards that are less price. But these usually come without cables and stuff? Or are refurbished and not as good as bet as a retail version?

CPU: AMD Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz--$119.00
Ok, not sure, but it looks like this places in Tom's Hardware listing as around the E8400/E8500 in comparison charts. It's listed for Dragon Age as recommended min. spec I believe. And it's pretty low $$. Any reason to go $70 more for a similar operating cpu? AMD or Intel makes no nevermind to me.

GPU: SAPPHIRE 100279-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB--$164.99
The one from the suggested build spec is no longer available, this was similar. Seems that the GPU's now handle a lot of the game load, and this one seems to be a great price point and handy by itself.

PSU: Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2--$79.99

RAM: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBNT - Retail--$88.99

This Ram is DDR 2, seems the newer boards and DDR 3 ram is same price. Is the newer DDR 3 ram still slower/worse? Or is it time to look into new mobo and Ram here since the prices are now the same?

HD: Western Digital Caviar Green WD5000AADS 500GB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive--$54.99

DVD: LG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 22X DVD-R 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner - OEM--$28.99

OS: Ubuntu -- Free

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM--$139.99
Do I need this version for the XP emulation or whatever to play older games in? And what's the difference here between OEM and Retail. Does OEM not let you move the OS to a new computer and the Retail version will let you move the OS to a new computer later on? Maybe I should google this instead of asking here, but I'm feeling tired and I'm sure it's on the tip of someone's tongue...anyone? lol

Now that comes out to $856.92 with combo deals and shipping it is about $835.32.

Any suggestions on pieces/components to shed some $$. Will buying an Open box motherboard and lowering that down $30 or so bucks be worth it? Will I then spend the saved $$ buying SATA cables and stuff to replace what's not there?

Thanks for the time and any suggestions, criticisms, witicisms, or whatever.

Phædrus2401

Don't use the Antec PSU. I know this adds to the cost, but do not try to cheap on the PSU as it will lead to problems down the line. You didn't go for a total cheap-o, so that's good at least, but it would be best to stick with the Corsair TX650W.

Go with this motherboard and CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-408-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-724-_-Product

There's about a 2% reduction in performance for going with the Athlon II x3 instead of the Phenom II x3, so for the saved money it's probably worth it.

kvscorpio

Hiya Phædrus2401, thanks for the reply.

I'll look into that CPU. Just saw that the 720 was on some charts and looked decent bang for the buck vs. the E8400s. If the 435 can tread water with it for $30 bucks less than that's pretty sweet.

I see the motherboard you suggest is a Micro board. Any reason other than price?

It has only 2 memory channels, not sure if upping from 4 gigs to 8 gigs is going to boost any performance, so that may be a non-issue.

And it isn't capable of crossfire, in case later on I need to put in another card to up the system in the future. Of course spending almost 40% total cost on the graphics cards does kind of sound funny in a semi-budget build system, but it's nice to have that option.

Anyone know of the difference in gaming with the two Win 7 versions? Is the win 7 home vs 7 pro negligible on gaming? Or is there any benefits anyone has heard of yet?

Phædrus2401

Glad I can help.

Didn't notice it was an mATX board. Doesn't matter a ton. As for 4GB versus 8GB, unless you're going to be doing really heavy duty AutoCAD or virtualization stuff it isn't really any improvement at all. For a gaming build 4GB is plenty, plus that mobo supports up to 4GB per slot, so if you want to upgrade later on that's an option.

Here's another option on the motherboard, a little more pricey but more options:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-381-_-Product

Crossfire isn't really worth it unless you're going to be playing on a huge resolution monitor (1920x1200 or higher). Also Crossfire would need a 750-850W PSU.

I'm not aware of any performance difference between the different Windows 7 versions. I've been recommending this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-754-_-Product since it is identical in every way to the retail versions, but costs about $60-100 less. But since the retail versions are at the top of the list and the OEM version is way down at the bottom, everyone ends up paying more for a whole lot of nothin'. *sigh*



Benchmarks for the Athlon II x3, Phemon II x3, and a few others:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...3,2452-10.html
You do lose some performance by dropping to an Athlon, but on your budget it might be the place to cut.

One more idea: the Radeon 5000 cards have come out, and they support DX11 which has several new features that will be implemented in future games as extra "eye candy". If it fits your budget a Radeon 5770 might be a better choice than the 4870; same performance now, and slightly better later on. But again, it costs a little bit more.

Underclocker

The Radeon 5770 is $5 more than the 4870 on Newegg and is slight faster even with the current immature drivers. Not to mention the huge reduction in power consumption. Well worth it I would say.

Tyree

4GB of RAM is more than sufficient.


Two GPU's do not yield enough increase in performance to justify the added expense.

Windows 7 comes in Premium-Professional-Ultimate.
Pro and Premium have no added advantages for gaming.
Home Premium will satisfy the needs of most users.

kvscorpio

Wow - thanks for all the help guys.

Ok, so here's what I have now. Only ?? I still have I guess is the Motherboard. I haven't looked into what the differences are between the AMD boards. I see the budget build suggested by Linderman included the GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P AM3/AM2+/AM2 790X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail board, and which is from the 790 line and the one Phaedrus is suggesting is from the 770 line. I don't SEE much of a difference between the two boards. Is there something I'm missing here? Like the 770's vs. the 790's means just a little less quality in parts, or is it fairly a moot point as to advantages? The $30 difference would seem to suggest a significant difference of some sorts. Any place to review motherboards like that great article you pointed me to Phaedrus on the 435 chip?

Parts:
Case: COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail--$69.99

* MOBO: ASUS M4A78 Plus AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail -- $79.99

* CPU: AMD Athlon II X3 435 2.9GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Processor - Retail--$89.99

GPU: SAPPHIRE 100279-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB--$164.99
* GPU choice #2: SAPPHIRE 100283L Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail--$169.99

The 2nd card reduces my PSU need to Recommended PSU Wattage: *284 from thermaltake's site!

* PSU: Corsair TX650W 650-Watt Power Supply - ATX, 120mm Fan, SLI-Ready, SATA-Ready, 80Plus--$109.99
* PSU2: Corsair / VX450W / 450-Watt / ATX / 120mm Fan / SATA-Ready / Power Supply, 80Plus--$79.99 - $15.00 rebate = $64.99

RAM: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBNT - Retail--$88.99

HD: Western Digital Caviar Green WD5000AADS 500GB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive--$54.99

DVD: LG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 22X DVD-R 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner - OEM--$28.99 - $10 combo w/ MS Win 7 HP

* OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM--$106.99

**Cheap speakers: Logitech S-220 17 Watts 2.1 Multimedia Speaker System - OEM--$20.99

Total with new stuff: $780.9

Any suggestions on what I'll need to install all this? I have a screwdriver.

Tyree

You need the 650W Corsair for the 5770 GPU.
A Phillips head screwdriver is the only tool needed. That case comes with a LOT of screws also.
Don't forget to bench test before installing the hardware into the case.

kvscorpio

Hi Thanks Tyree-

I saw on the Sapphire website for this Graphics card -

and and was wondering about what the Amp requirements were vs. the watt requirements. Is that why you recommend the 650 for this card?

I must admit I was reading the Power supply sticky by Tumbleweed36 and was wondering if it was dated due to the new power saving components using such less power needs.

But now it's all talking about Amps on the 12v rail being the biggest requirement, and frankly making me a little sleepy. :

So I guess I'm wondering why the 650. Guess I'better go read some more on this.

Thanks again all.

JCP21

Its always better to get a better psu higher waltage in case your going to use in it future builds, never skinp on a psu

kvscorpio

Ok, I bit the bullet and ordered the parts. Total was $819.57 with ship/handling and $25 dollars in rebates to take off that when they come through. So all told, will be $794.57

If you look at My System over there, you can see the build I made in Dec. of 2000. That thing is still kicking around, only updated the GPU and some ram, and DVD drive. Unfortunately, one of the Hamsters running the old PSU died and well, only can plug in one thing at a time to the 4 back USB connectors and the CD-RW drive won't open anymore, and I think some Tribbles took up residence and overran the available room in the case.

So, thanks again all for info and what not, I imagine when the boxes start arriving I will be posting again, as it has been since Dec. 2000 that I last built a machine, and well, I imagine I may come across some questions as I've certainly forgotten more than I now think I know, hehe.

Got my shiny new screwdriver ready, and a sixer of Beer.

Thanks again, and I'll re-post with how this thing goes on.

Tyree

The 5770 requires a minimum of 450W PSU so the 450W PSU you have listed in post #7 would not be adequate to meet the power demands of the whole system.
The other PSU you have listed in that post is a 650W and that would be sufficient and give you a little head room.
Many of the newer components are indeed designed for lower power consumption but the new GPU's certainly do not fall into that category. New games demand better graphics and the GPU's that meet that demand require more power.

Save the beer for AFTER you get the build completed.

Phædrus2401

ATI has done wonderful things in bringing down the idle power consumption of their cards, but they still gulp power like mad when under load.

Underclocker

Indeed, but the 5770 still draws 40W less than the 4870 under load (~110 vs. ~150W).

kvscorpio

Got all the parts today. Ran through info from Linderman's great post on How to Bench test a system, and everything went fine.

System is up, everything looks good. Games are playing in 1680 X 1050 High, with no stuttering, nothing could be sweeter.

So many thanks for all the tips and advice.

Phædrus2401

Your welcome! Glad it's working good for you.