Buy New or Upgrade?

blueblade3000 · 10-30-2009, 05:13 PM

Hi. I am in need of advice to put together as "killer" a gaming pc as I can for under $1000...hopefully way under. My question is whether I would get better performance for my money by buying a new pc or upgrading what I have. I'm into FPS's like Modern Warfare...I'd like to be able to turn the graphics way up with no problems. Here's what I have now:

Asus P5N-e SLI
2 GB RAM
GeForce 8500 GT
Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz

Is it worth adding some RAM and buying a second video card (or two better ones?), or shell out a couple more bucks for much better performance? I'm willing to spend a little more if it means much better performance. Thanks.

**wrench97** · 10-30-2009, 05:37 PM

Which C2D do have? CPUz if your not sure > http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

SLI of 2 lessor cards never equals a single better card.

What power supply do have? You may have to take the side cover off and look for the brand and model on the label.

blueblade3000 · 10-30-2009, 05:54 PM

C2D E6550 2.33 GHz

PS: NZXT PP500

**wrench97** · 10-31-2009, 02:29 AM

Tough call the CPU is still quite capable and can be overclocked to give you a boost, I think I would upgrade the PSU and video card swap the ram for for a pair of 2gig DDR2 800 sticks and add a mild overclock.

What budget do have for the upgrade?

blueblade3000 · 10-31-2009, 07:58 AM

I'd like to keep it as low as possible while still seeing a noticeable improvement, but I'm willing to approach $1000 if necessary to make that happen. I'm expecting to spend between $500 and $800.

**Tyree** · 10-31-2009, 08:30 AM

"Approaching" $1000 would build a new PC but I am in agreement with wrench97 suggestions for upgrading.
About $100 for a matched pair of 2X2GB DDR2800 RAM gives you a lot of headway for a GPU/PSU combination.

blueblade3000 · 10-31-2009, 08:48 AM

The PSU...is that just so it can handle the GPU and RAM, or will it boost performance? And what wattage would you recommend? How about the vid card? What's the best or near best out there now?

**grimx133** · 10-31-2009, 09:33 AM

Here's what Corsair says are guaranteed to work with your motherboard.
http://www.corsair.com/configurator/....aspx?id=56586

And a nice 2x2GB kit, rated for 2.1v. and CL4. 130 bucks, ram prices sure are rising, few months ago probably could of got it for half the price, or less.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145194

For a power supply, 90 bucks, after rebate, is a great price on the 750TX.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139006

And for a card, about the best price/performance in the nVidia line would be the GTX275. I wouldn't go with an ATI card, you have a nVidia chipset on the motherboard, it's best to avoid any possible conflicts.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130478
EVGA Superclocked GTX275 for 250 after rebate. Lifetime warranty, but you have to register within 30 days to get that.

So that would bring you up to about 470, not including shipping and taxes.

Another couple hundred and you could drop in a new cpu, not that it would have a pile of impact after a huge leap in video card. Here's the Asus site where you can get at the cpu support list, just in case eh.
http://asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=Ky...ntent=download

edit - You also may want to think about an aftermarket hsf to keep the cpu cooler while overclocking.

**Tyree** · 10-31-2009, 09:41 AM

This Corsair is considerably cheaper with slightly higher latencies.
CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2800 $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145184

The 750W Corsair is a great deal at $110. Corsair rebates are Rebate Cards-not cash.

**grimx133** · 10-31-2009, 09:54 AM

The only problem with the cheaper ram is the voltage. It's 1.8v. ram, as opposed to the 2.1v. of the other kit. When overclocking, 2.1 is preferred.

blueblade3000 · 10-31-2009, 10:18 AM

I have a 4GB set, Mushkin XP2-6400 (991580), says 2.0-2.1V. I was having issues with a program, and through troubleshooting, swapping the RAM seemed to work. Maybe I can try it again and see if it was the issue.

So dual video cards aren't all that, huh? I assumed that would be essential for a big boost.

Thanks for all the help. I used to know about these things, but spend a couple years away and it's a whole new ball game.

Phædrus2401 · 10-31-2009, 10:47 AM

Dual video cards aren't worth it for most users. If you have a 24" monitor, a quality 850W PSU, and a motherboard that supports SLI/Crossfire, then it can be worth it to invest in two cards. Sometimes. And if you have a lot of spare cash. Dual graphics cards work better on larger resolutions, on anything less than 1920x1200 it isn't worth it.

**Tyree** · 10-31-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimx133

The only problem with the cheaper ram is the voltage. It's 1.8v. ram, as opposed to the 2.1v. of the other kit. When overclocking, 2.1 is preferred.

If one wants to OC heavily the higher priced RAM would be an option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueblade3000

I have a 4GB set, Mushkin XP2-6400 (991580), says 2.0-2.1V. I was having issues with a program, and through troubleshooting, swapping the RAM seemed to work. Maybe I can try it again and see if it was the issue.

So dual video cards aren't all that, huh? I assumed that would be essential for a big boost.

Couldn't hurt to try the Mushkin RAM.
Correct, dual GPU's are not "all that". Their biggest benefactor is the the GPU and PSU manufacturer's.

blueblade3000 · 10-31-2009, 11:24 AM

Great, I will follow your suggestions and go with a PSU, GPU, RAM upgrade. Thanks again for the advice!

**grimx133** · 10-31-2009, 11:50 AM

The Mushkin ram is pretty much the same, as long it is error free, you'd be best off just continuing using that. You don't need more ram, 4GB is plenty, you won't use more. Replacing 800Mhz. ram with 800Mhz. ram isn't going to help performance. Corsair does list some PC2-8500 1066Mhz. for your board, but it's rather pricey for a 5-10% increase in fps.

Did you try running memtest on the Mushkin ram, one stick at a time. Any errors and the ram needs to be replaced, also check the vdimm in your bios and see what voltage the ram is running at. Some boards default to 1.8 volts, this can cause errors. If that's what it is, increase the voltage to 2.0 and see if that does the trick.
http://www.memtest.org/

Phædrus2401 · 10-31-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

5-10%

Going from DDR2 800 to 1066? More like 0.1-0.5%. I got my 1066 because it was $3 more than the 800 at the time.

blueblade3000 · 10-31-2009, 12:24 PM

Just put the Mushkin in, tried playing COD4, and it crashed as before. I'll check the bios...didn't know about that. I think I tried memtest in the past, but was confused...I'll take a look again.

**grimx133** · 10-31-2009, 01:12 PM

Running the Crysis demo benchmark, results in fps:

2x1GB 800Mhz. - 69.62 fps
2x1GB 1066Mhz. - 74.38 fps

You do the math. Not that it would be noticable, but may be on a system
getting a lower frame rate.

**wrench97** · 10-31-2009, 02:24 PM

Doesn't matter his board is going to run the 1066 at 800 trying to up the ram speed on that board usually causes issues.

When you had the Muskin installed did you set the voltage up to 2.1v for the ram?

The GTX275 and 750TX are a good choice for that setup, set the CPU up to 2.6-2.8 you'll think it's a new system.

10-30-2009, 05:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
blueblade3000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13 OS: WinXP SP2	Buy New or Upgrade? Hi. I am in need of advice to put together as "killer" a gaming pc as I can for under $1000...hopefully way under. My question is whether I would get better performance for my money by buying a new pc or upgrading what I have. I'm into FPS's like Modern Warfare...I'd like to be able to turn the graphics way up with no problems. Here's what I have now: Asus P5N-e SLI 2 GB RAM GeForce 8500 GT Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz Is it worth adding some RAM and buying a second video card (or two better ones?), or shell out a couple more bucks for much better performance? I'm willing to spend a little more if it means much better performance. Thanks.

10-30-2009, 05:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
wrench97 Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania Posts: 18,364 OS: Win7	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? Which C2D do have? CPUz if your not sure > http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php SLI of 2 lessor cards never equals a single better card. What power supply do have? You may have to take the side cover off and look for the brand and model on the label. __________________ Power Supply and Selection

10-30-2009, 05:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
blueblade3000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13 OS: WinXP SP2	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? C2D E6550 2.33 GHz PS: NZXT PP500

10-31-2009, 02:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
wrench97 Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania Posts: 18,364 OS: Win7	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? Tough call the CPU is still quite capable and can be overclocked to give you a boost, I think I would upgrade the PSU and video card swap the ram for for a pair of 2gig DDR2 800 sticks and add a mild overclock. What budget do have for the upgrade? __________________ Power Supply and Selection

10-31-2009, 07:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
blueblade3000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13 OS: WinXP SP2	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? I'd like to keep it as low as possible while still seeing a noticeable improvement, but I'm willing to approach $1000 if necessary to make that happen. I'm expecting to spend between $500 and $800.

10-31-2009, 08:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
Tyree Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: May 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 5,391 OS: XP Pro-7RC-Mandriva My System	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? "Approaching" $1000 would build a new PC but I am in agreement with wrench97 suggestions for upgrading. About $100 for a matched pair of 2X2GB DDR2800 RAM gives you a lot of headway for a GPU/PSU combination. __________________ Posting your PC specs will help us to help you quicker and more efficiently. Last edited by Tyree; 10-31-2009 at 08:32 AM.

10-31-2009, 08:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
blueblade3000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13 OS: WinXP SP2	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? The PSU...is that just so it can handle the GPU and RAM, or will it boost performance? And what wattage would you recommend? How about the vid card? What's the best or near best out there now?

10-31-2009, 09:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
grimx133 Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada eh Posts: 3,130 OS: xp mce sp2, xp pro sp2, windows 7 beta My System	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? Here's what Corsair says are guaranteed to work with your motherboard. http://www.corsair.com/configurator/....aspx?id=56586 And a nice 2x2GB kit, rated for 2.1v. and CL4. 130 bucks, ram prices sure are rising, few months ago probably could of got it for half the price, or less. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145194 For a power supply, 90 bucks, after rebate, is a great price on the 750TX. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139006 And for a card, about the best price/performance in the nVidia line would be the GTX275. I wouldn't go with an ATI card, you have a nVidia chipset on the motherboard, it's best to avoid any possible conflicts. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130478 EVGA Superclocked GTX275 for 250 after rebate. Lifetime warranty, but you have to register within 30 days to get that. So that would bring you up to about 470, not including shipping and taxes. Another couple hundred and you could drop in a new cpu, not that it would have a pile of impact after a huge leap in video card. Here's the Asus site where you can get at the cpu support list, just in case eh. http://asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=Ky...ntent=download edit - You also may want to think about an aftermarket hsf to keep the cpu cooler while overclocking. __________________ Last edited by grimx133; 10-31-2009 at 09:35 AM.

10-31-2009, 09:41 AM	#9 (permalink)
Tyree Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: May 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 5,391 OS: XP Pro-7RC-Mandriva My System	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? This Corsair is considerably cheaper with slightly higher latencies. CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2800 $90 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145184 The 750W Corsair is a great deal at $110. Corsair rebates are Rebate Cards-not cash. __________________ Posting your PC specs will help us to help you quicker and more efficiently.

10-31-2009, 09:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
grimx133 Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada eh Posts: 3,130 OS: xp mce sp2, xp pro sp2, windows 7 beta My System	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? The only problem with the cheaper ram is the voltage. It's 1.8v. ram, as opposed to the 2.1v. of the other kit. When overclocking, 2.1 is preferred. __________________

10-31-2009, 10:18 AM	#11 (permalink)
blueblade3000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13 OS: WinXP SP2	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? I have a 4GB set, Mushkin XP2-6400 (991580), says 2.0-2.1V. I was having issues with a program, and through troubleshooting, swapping the RAM seemed to work. Maybe I can try it again and see if it was the issue. So dual video cards aren't all that, huh? I assumed that would be essential for a big boost. Thanks for all the help. I used to know about these things, but spend a couple years away and it's a whole new ball game. Last edited by blueblade3000; 10-31-2009 at 10:23 AM.

10-31-2009, 10:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
Phædrus2401 Hardware Tech Team Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 3,719 OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 + Ubuntu 9.04 My System	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? Dual video cards aren't worth it for most users. If you have a 24" monitor, a quality 850W PSU, and a motherboard that supports SLI/Crossfire, then it can be worth it to invest in two cards. Sometimes. And if you have a lot of spare cash. Dual graphics cards work better on larger resolutions, on anything less than 1920x1200 it isn't worth it. __________________ Good PSU brands: Corsair, SeaSonic, CWT, PC Power and Cooling, Thermaltake Toughpower, CoolerMaster Real Power Pro On 80+ Certification - PSU Information and Selection - Power Supply Myths You don't get what you don't pay for.

10-31-2009, 11:24 AM	#14 (permalink)
blueblade3000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13 OS: WinXP SP2	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? Great, I will follow your suggestions and go with a PSU, GPU, RAM upgrade. Thanks again for the advice!

10-31-2009, 11:50 AM	#15 (permalink)
grimx133 Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada eh Posts: 3,130 OS: xp mce sp2, xp pro sp2, windows 7 beta My System	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? The Mushkin ram is pretty much the same, as long it is error free, you'd be best off just continuing using that. You don't need more ram, 4GB is plenty, you won't use more. Replacing 800Mhz. ram with 800Mhz. ram isn't going to help performance. Corsair does list some PC2-8500 1066Mhz. for your board, but it's rather pricey for a 5-10% increase in fps. Did you try running memtest on the Mushkin ram, one stick at a time. Any errors and the ram needs to be replaced, also check the vdimm in your bios and see what voltage the ram is running at. Some boards default to 1.8 volts, this can cause errors. If that's what it is, increase the voltage to 2.0 and see if that does the trick. http://www.memtest.org/ __________________

10-31-2009, 12:24 PM	#17 (permalink)
blueblade3000 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13 OS: WinXP SP2	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? Just put the Mushkin in, tried playing COD4, and it crashed as before. I'll check the bios...didn't know about that. I think I tried memtest in the past, but was confused...I'll take a look again.

10-31-2009, 01:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
grimx133 Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada eh Posts: 3,130 OS: xp mce sp2, xp pro sp2, windows 7 beta My System	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? Running the Crysis demo benchmark, results in fps: 2x1GB 800Mhz. - 69.62 fps 2x1GB 1066Mhz. - 74.38 fps You do the math. Not that it would be noticable, but may be on a system getting a lower frame rate. __________________

10-31-2009, 02:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
wrench97 Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania Posts: 18,364 OS: Win7	Re: Buy New or Upgrade? Doesn't matter his board is going to run the 1066 at 800 trying to up the ram speed on that board usually causes issues. When you had the Muskin installed did you set the voltage up to 2.1v for the ram? The GTX275 and 750TX are a good choice for that setup, set the CPU up to 2.6-2.8 you'll think it's a new system. __________________ Power Supply and Selection