First time build ($500), need major advice. - Page 2

notbryant · 10-24-2009, 08:46 AM

@Tyree
Do you have an enclosure or optical drive you can suggest?
And the power supply I'm referring to is this one. Newegg does have it, it's just out of stock.

**Tyree** · 10-24-2009, 10:38 AM

I use Apricorn but it's it of stock at Newegg. Very dependable enclosures with good quality internal circuitry.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817362003

notbryant · 10-24-2009, 10:19 PM

@Tyree
I'm still not convinced that I necessarily need to go with an enclosure. I'm just still thinking that a prebuilt external would be fine for what I need to do, especially if it will cause me to go over my budget for the piece of hardware I will use the least. If I was going to be burning a ton of DVDs or something like that, I might consider it. Besides, if I find that I need something better, I can always buy an enclosure later, or if I was really serious about DVD/CD needs, I would just buy an internal.

But if you have a really convincing argument not to, I'm still open to suggestions. Also, you didn't suggest a drive as well in addition to the enclosure.

Also, I do have those two questions from the last page which no one has answered. I'll repost them, and one more that I have been pondering.

Quote:

1. Other than looking for matching compatibility and high enough FSB, what else is there to look for in a motherboard? (Besides USB ports, etc).
2. One of the nice things about EEE PCs is that they have two hard drives in them: one for the OS, one for documents and programs. I would kind of like to have a similar setup, even if I were to buy it later. What would you recommend for a smallerish HD, < or = 128GB, even if I were to buy it at a later time?

3. I've been considering maybe upgrading the CPU "one level up." But when I try to find the next "level," I just find one like the Phenom II X3 720, which (in the multiple benchmark tests I've come across on Google) performed more or less the exact same as the one I am going to go with now. What would be a real "step up," and what's the price difference?

Apologies if I sound a bit curt. It's been a long, long day for me, and I was kind of hoping to be done by the 30th because then I get a $10 rebate for the graphics card.

-Jon

**Phædrus2401** · 10-24-2009, 10:39 PM

1.) Depends on your needs. Aside from brand (Asus and Gigabyte make good, mostly bug-free boards with quality circuit boards and components with good hardware support), and the aforementioned compatibility, you just need to match your price and plans. If you plan to use dual graphics cards you look for a board with extra PCIe x16 slots. If you're going to set up a RAID array look for a board with built-in RAID support for the level you want to use. If you want to overclock look for a board with an FSB higher than you'll need that has good copper heatsinks (especially on the northbridge), and also make sure that the chipset the board has is a good one for overclocking (for instance, Intel P45 is good for overclocking, while P43 is not. X48 is ok, and the nForce chipsets are hit-and-miss. I don't know what chipsets are good for overclocking on AMD, but I at least know that the one in the board I picked out for you is stable). Things like that, mainly.

2.) I'd buy another one of the drives you've already chosen; they're quite good, and for a reasonable price.

3.) The next step up might be an Athlon II x4. However, I wouldn't recommend it. See, quad core CPUs tend to have lower clock speeds, and thus won't perform as well in programs that only use one or two CPU cores (which many do). But dual core CPUs, though they usually have higher clock speeds, won't perform as well as quads in programs designed to use more than two CPU cores. The three core CPU is a tradeoff, and I think for your needs it's a good choice. If you do go for a quad core, you need to go for a good quad core, or you'll see lower-performance in some applications. The next step up would be either the Phenom II x3 (which you've looked at) or the Phenom II x4 series. A Phenom II x4 will run you between $140 and $250. The one I'd buy for a decent improvement over the Athlon II x3, without sacrificing much performance in dual threaded apps, would be the Phenom II x4 925 2.8GHz: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103656

notbryant · 10-24-2009, 10:59 PM

Thanks so much, Phædrus. I was looking forward to your reply, and it did not dissapoint.

SO THEN, here's my FINAL list! Declare any objections now before I purchase, hopefully tomorrow afternoon!

CASE:
GIGABYTE GZ-X2BPD-500 Black 0.6mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811233033
$37.99

MOTHERBOARD:
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128394
$79.99

CPU:
Athlon II X3 435 95W AM3 1.5MB 2900MHZ
http://www.provantage.com/amd-adx435...x~7AAMD2AU.htm
$91.32

MEMORY:
Patriot Extreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin 800
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220174
$41.99

GRAPHICS:
SAPPHIRE 100295HDMI Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102854
$56.99

POWER:
Corsair VX550W 550W ATX
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=3436149
$79.99

HD:
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136320
$69.99

DVD/CD:
NU USB 2.0 External Slim DVD Multi Burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827154040
$25.00

MONITOR:
LG W1943TB-PF Black 18.5" 5ms(GTG) 16:9
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824005121
$119.99

GRAND TOTAL: $603.25 (Pretty close to budget, eh?)

(I'll be awaiting your response on the drive, Tyree.)

Everything's compatible? Didn't grab the wrong suggestion on anything? I can hardly stand the excitement!

-Jon

**Phædrus2401** · 10-24-2009, 11:26 PM

Aside from Tyree's comments on external DVD drives, I'd say it looks great to me. I'd wait for Tyree to reply, because he may have a last convincing argument to go with an internal drive. But otherwise I'd say you're good to go, and you can buy tomorrow if Tyree hasn't responded.

kingcboy · 10-26-2009, 11:17 AM

Well im in the same boat as you..i am doing a grad project and its building a desktop computer.. see i said desktop computer ok...i was the same 500 bucks but had to go 700 bucks..i wanted a quad core and semi gaming computer...so you may want to go up to 700 bucks..but just save for it slowly and try newegg nest place in the wold thats where im getting everything..you can try cainslair its a nice site and look for barebones and thats where you might be able to see the specs..hope this helps...

notbryant · 10-26-2009, 11:49 AM

kingcboy, I don't know if you read the thread at all, but I've already decided that I have to to at least $600, and I do know that if I wanted, I could go to $700 and upgrade things like the RAM, CPU and GFX to make it more of a gaming computer, but that is a tad out of my budget. I don't know if you saw, but I posted my final shopping list two posts up, and I'm just waiting to see what Tyree will say about the DVD drive. But I'll give him until around 5ish, but then I'm just going to go with what I got now.

BTW, I forgot to ask, this system is totally upgradeable, right? I mean, it looks like it is, but I just thought I'd check. (Hopefully you'll see this today, Phædrus/Tyree.)

**Phædrus2401** · 10-26-2009, 12:19 PM

It's upgradeable, but not massively so. You can go to a quad core CPU, up to 16GB of RAM (though you'll never need that much in this PC's lifetime), and the power supply could handle a Radeon 4850/5750 graphics card (though I would recommend a 650W for those). Always room for more hard drives, of course. AMD is likely to continue to use the AM3 socket for at least one or two more lines of CPUs, so lots of upgrade potential there. All-in-all I'd say it's about as upgradeable as any PC. If you want to upgrade the graphics card to a true high-end card later on, I'd suggest spending the extra $20 for the Corsair TX650W PSU, but aside from that it's fine as is.

notbryant · 10-26-2009, 04:28 PM

Well, while I was waiting for Tyree to post, the RAM I was going to buy is now a "Deactivated item". Phædrus, any other quick suggestions for same type, different brand?

I'm really kind of disappointed. It was like a 2 day waiting period, and I kept saying I wanted to buy ASAP, and now something happened because there was no response in time. Plus, I saw that Tyree has posted in other threads.

**wrench97** · 10-26-2009, 04:46 PM

That may be a blessing in disguise, usually when they get deactivated that quick there's an issue with it.
Here is the ram with faster timings> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220144

notbryant · 10-26-2009, 05:01 PM

Thanks for the uplifting optimism, wrench. :)

I also just figured out that if I move the case over to TigerDirect (which I have to buy the Power Supply from anyway, since Newegg is sold out), I save $20 in shipping. Hooray!

So timing should be LESS on RAM? Hmm...just goes to show, higher numbers aren't always best. Kinda sucks, going up $10 for RAM, but oh well.

**wrench97** · 10-26-2009, 05:12 PM

Ram timing is like Golf lower is better.

notbryant · 10-26-2009, 05:46 PM

Well, parts are ordered.

NEWEGG - $449.07
TIGERDIRECT - $139.98
PROVANTAGE - $98.77
MAIL-IN REBATES - $30

GRAND TOTAL - $657.82

It "exceeded" the budget my ~$50, but that's because (1) my RAM price changed at the last second by $10, (2) I didn't count $25 of the DVD drive, since I "split" it between my netbook and build, and (3) I got hit with ~$20 of shipping between Newegg and Provantage. Otherwise, I was extremely close, and it's hopefully going to be a good build.

Thanks for all the help, guys, especially you, Phædrus. I'm probably going to be back in this thread after I build/attempt to build, and either ask advice or report how it works.
-Jon

**Tyree** · 10-26-2009, 07:19 PM

My apologies to you notbryant for not responding about the optical drive.
What did you decide to go with?
I believe I mentioned earlier about my dislikes for external slim drives but I will repeat them. Prebuilt externals tend to use low quality circuitry in the enclosures and slim drives are not reliable. I've also seen issues when trying to install on OS from an external device.
That being said, best of luck with your build and don't forget to Bench Test before assembling in the case.

10-24-2009, 08:46 AM	#21 (permalink)
notbryant Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 14 OS: Windows XP SP3	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. @Tyree Do you have an enclosure or optical drive you can suggest? And the power supply I'm referring to is this one. Newegg does have it, it's just out of stock.

10-24-2009, 10:38 AM	#22 (permalink)
Tyree Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: May 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,236 OS: XP Pro-7RC-Mandriva My System	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. I use Apricorn but it's it of stock at Newegg. Very dependable enclosures with good quality internal circuitry. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817362003 __________________ Posting your PC specs will help us to help you quicker and more efficiently.

10-24-2009, 10:39 PM	#24 (permalink)
Phædrus2401 Senior Tech, Games Team Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 4,615 OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 My System	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. 1.) Depends on your needs. Aside from brand (Asus and Gigabyte make good, mostly bug-free boards with quality circuit boards and components with good hardware support), and the aforementioned compatibility, you just need to match your price and plans. If you plan to use dual graphics cards you look for a board with extra PCIe x16 slots. If you're going to set up a RAID array look for a board with built-in RAID support for the level you want to use. If you want to overclock look for a board with an FSB higher than you'll need that has good copper heatsinks (especially on the northbridge), and also make sure that the chipset the board has is a good one for overclocking (for instance, Intel P45 is good for overclocking, while P43 is not. X48 is ok, and the nForce chipsets are hit-and-miss. I don't know what chipsets are good for overclocking on AMD, but I at least know that the one in the board I picked out for you is stable). Things like that, mainly. 2.) I'd buy another one of the drives you've already chosen; they're quite good, and for a reasonable price. 3.) The next step up might be an Athlon II x4. However, I wouldn't recommend it. See, quad core CPUs tend to have lower clock speeds, and thus won't perform as well in programs that only use one or two CPU cores (which many do). But dual core CPUs, though they usually have higher clock speeds, won't perform as well as quads in programs designed to use more than two CPU cores. The three core CPU is a tradeoff, and I think for your needs it's a good choice. If you do go for a quad core, you need to go for a good quad core, or you'll see lower-performance in some applications. The next step up would be either the Phenom II x3 (which you've looked at) or the Phenom II x4 series. A Phenom II x4 will run you between $140 and $250. The one I'd buy for a decent improvement over the Athlon II x3, without sacrificing much performance in dual threaded apps, would be the Phenom II x4 925 2.8GHz: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103656 __________________

10-24-2009, 10:59 PM	#25 (permalink)
notbryant Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 14 OS: Windows XP SP3	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. Thanks so much, Phædrus. I was looking forward to your reply, and it did not dissapoint. SO THEN, here's my FINAL list! Declare any objections now before I purchase, hopefully tomorrow afternoon! CASE: GIGABYTE GZ-X2BPD-500 Black 0.6mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811233033 $37.99 MOTHERBOARD: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128394 $79.99 CPU: Athlon II X3 435 95W AM3 1.5MB 2900MHZ http://www.provantage.com/amd-adx435...x~7AAMD2AU.htm $91.32 MEMORY: Patriot Extreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin 800 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220174 $41.99 GRAPHICS: SAPPHIRE 100295HDMI Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102854 $56.99 POWER: Corsair VX550W 550W ATX http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=3436149 $79.99 HD: Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136320 $69.99 DVD/CD: NU USB 2.0 External Slim DVD Multi Burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827154040 $25.00 MONITOR: LG W1943TB-PF Black 18.5" 5ms(GTG) 16:9 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824005121 $119.99 GRAND TOTAL: $603.25 (Pretty close to budget, eh?) (I'll be awaiting your response on the drive, Tyree.) Everything's compatible? Didn't grab the wrong suggestion on anything? I can hardly stand the excitement! -Jon

10-24-2009, 11:26 PM	#26 (permalink)
Phædrus2401 Senior Tech, Games Team Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 4,615 OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 My System	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. Aside from Tyree's comments on external DVD drives, I'd say it looks great to me. I'd wait for Tyree to reply, because he may have a last convincing argument to go with an internal drive. But otherwise I'd say you're good to go, and you can buy tomorrow if Tyree hasn't responded. __________________

10-26-2009, 11:17 AM	#27 (permalink)
kingcboy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1 OS: Vista 64 Windows 7 Pro 64 bit	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. Well im in the same boat as you..i am doing a grad project and its building a desktop computer.. see i said desktop computer ok...i was the same 500 bucks but had to go 700 bucks..i wanted a quad core and semi gaming computer...so you may want to go up to 700 bucks..but just save for it slowly and try newegg nest place in the wold thats where im getting everything..you can try cainslair its a nice site and look for barebones and thats where you might be able to see the specs..hope this helps...

10-26-2009, 11:49 AM	#28 (permalink)
notbryant Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 14 OS: Windows XP SP3	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. kingcboy, I don't know if you read the thread at all, but I've already decided that I have to to at least $600, and I do know that if I wanted, I could go to $700 and upgrade things like the RAM, CPU and GFX to make it more of a gaming computer, but that is a tad out of my budget. I don't know if you saw, but I posted my final shopping list two posts up, and I'm just waiting to see what Tyree will say about the DVD drive. But I'll give him until around 5ish, but then I'm just going to go with what I got now. BTW, I forgot to ask, this system is totally upgradeable, right? I mean, it looks like it is, but I just thought I'd check. (Hopefully you'll see this today, Phædrus/Tyree.) Last edited by notbryant; 10-26-2009 at 11:57 AM.

10-26-2009, 12:19 PM	#29 (permalink)
Phædrus2401 Senior Tech, Games Team Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Orleans Posts: 4,615 OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 My System	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. It's upgradeable, but not massively so. You can go to a quad core CPU, up to 16GB of RAM (though you'll never need that much in this PC's lifetime), and the power supply could handle a Radeon 4850/5750 graphics card (though I would recommend a 650W for those). Always room for more hard drives, of course. AMD is likely to continue to use the AM3 socket for at least one or two more lines of CPUs, so lots of upgrade potential there. All-in-all I'd say it's about as upgradeable as any PC. If you want to upgrade the graphics card to a true high-end card later on, I'd suggest spending the extra $20 for the Corsair TX650W PSU, but aside from that it's fine as is. __________________

10-26-2009, 04:28 PM	#30 (permalink)
notbryant Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 14 OS: Windows XP SP3	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. Well, while I was waiting for Tyree to post, the RAM I was going to buy is now a "Deactivated item". Phædrus, any other quick suggestions for same type, different brand? I'm really kind of disappointed. It was like a 2 day waiting period, and I kept saying I wanted to buy ASAP, and now something happened because there was no response in time. Plus, I saw that Tyree has posted in other threads.

10-26-2009, 04:46 PM	#31 (permalink)
wrench97 Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania Posts: 21,421 OS: Win7	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. That may be a blessing in disguise, usually when they get deactivated that quick there's an issue with it. Here is the ram with faster timings> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220144 __________________ Power Supply and Selection

10-26-2009, 05:01 PM	#32 (permalink)
notbryant Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 14 OS: Windows XP SP3	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. Thanks for the uplifting optimism, wrench. :) I also just figured out that if I move the case over to TigerDirect (which I have to buy the Power Supply from anyway, since Newegg is sold out), I save $20 in shipping. Hooray! So timing should be LESS on RAM? Hmm...just goes to show, higher numbers aren't always best. Kinda sucks, going up $10 for RAM, but oh well.

10-26-2009, 05:12 PM	#33 (permalink)
wrench97 Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania Posts: 21,421 OS: Win7	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. Ram timing is like Golf lower is better. __________________ Power Supply and Selection

10-26-2009, 05:46 PM	#34 (permalink)
notbryant Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 14 OS: Windows XP SP3	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. Well, parts are ordered. NEWEGG - $449.07 TIGERDIRECT - $139.98 PROVANTAGE - $98.77 MAIL-IN REBATES - $30 GRAND TOTAL - $657.82 It "exceeded" the budget my ~$50, but that's because (1) my RAM price changed at the last second by $10, (2) I didn't count $25 of the DVD drive, since I "split" it between my netbook and build, and (3) I got hit with ~$20 of shipping between Newegg and Provantage. Otherwise, I was extremely close, and it's hopefully going to be a good build. Thanks for all the help, guys, especially you, Phædrus. I'm probably going to be back in this thread after I build/attempt to build, and either ask advice or report how it works. -Jon

10-26-2009, 07:19 PM	#35 (permalink)
Tyree Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: May 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,236 OS: XP Pro-7RC-Mandriva My System	Re: First time build ($500), need major advice. My apologies to you notbryant for not responding about the optical drive. What did you decide to go with? I believe I mentioned earlier about my dislikes for external slim drives but I will repeat them. Prebuilt externals tend to use low quality circuitry in the enclosures and slim drives are not reliable. I've also seen issues when trying to install on OS from an external device. That being said, best of luck with your build and don't forget to Bench Test before assembling in the case. __________________ Posting your PC specs will help us to help you quicker and more efficiently.