evildead789

Hi dudes,

I have just come to the conclusion that I have to build a completely new rig to play todays games And i mean completely.

My rig now is

Psu 350W
Mobo=Asus p4s800
P4 2,8 ghz
1 gb ram ddr1
ati radeon x1600 pro AGP
Hdd are all 5400 rpm ata 133 ide
Dvd dual layer writer

I haven't been of the planet the last years
I bought an xbox 360 two years ago that is why I haven't upgraded yet. But console gaming isn't really the same as pc gaming.

Off course I want to do this the cheapest way possible. The rig has to be able to run games on like medium settings. Let says something like the same quality like an X360.

Do you have any ideas on what I should buy. And I will have to buy everyting I mean psu, cpu , ram , hdd , gpu, mobo and so on. Well I guess i can still use my old dvd drive and case

Tyree

Look this thread over for some ideas. Asus and Gigabyte are good Mobo's.
Want to Build A New Intel or AMD Computer? Here are 6 suggested models with Spec

MaxxSauce

Ok here:

Cooler Master 690 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119137

Asus P5Q SE Plus http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131347

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115131

Corsair 650W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005

G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2 1066 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231166

Zalman CNPS9700 Blue LED http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118019

EVGA GTX275 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130475

(optional) Cooler Master 690 Clear Side Panel: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811999177

ANY HARD SATA HARD DRIVE ~ $54.99
ANY DVD RW ~ $24.99

This is just under $900, and will probably be about $950 with tax and shipping.
It will kick any games *** (save crysis) and will look crystal clear compared to xbox360 and I mean CRYSTAL. It will be good for CoD6 and any new games coming out soon, except another crysis expansion if they make it. Should run everything at 70+ FPS at 1920x1200 with full settings (not crysis though). Hope this helps.

MaxxSauce

Oh and I forgot OS, unless you have you're own copy, you have to buy vista for $99 or wait for windows 7 to come out. You also might want to wait on the graphics cards, and use your Radeon for now, and wait until win7 and DX11 come out, and buy one of the new series due in Q4 2009 - Q1 2010.

Phædrus2401

Eeeh, I'd prefer a 700-750w for the GTX275. 650w would be adequate but doesn't leave a ton of headroom.

greenbrucelee

I agree with Phaedrus2401 you are going to be pushing it with 650w and if you decide to add another hard drive or have some equipment plugged into the USB ports or firewire ports then things could go wrong or very slowly.

Tyree

And go with a Dual Core CPU for a gaming PC.
The WD Balck Series Hdd's have a 32MB Cache & a 5 yr. warranty.
LG or Lite-On for DVDRW.

Phædrus2401

Well, not USB since those use +5V and I'd be more worried about the +12V rail. But at 650w with a GTX275, adding much more in the way of drives or PCI cards could push the PSU load past the magical "70-80%" and thus start introducing voltage fluctuations, which with the Corsair TX series is more of a problem than with other high-end, quality PSUs (check hardwaresecrets.com -- it's within ATX specifications, but higher than I'd like to see. Still a good unit though).

benmat_rox

Just reading all these posts make me feel at home. Its good to be surrounded by other people that actually no what they're talking about.

To the original poster, i'm going to second what MaxxSauce suggested. If money is not too much of a problem, i would definitely be upgrading that power supply just a little. The 650W SHOULD just cut it - But when it comes to computers you dont want JUST, you want to be safe. So probably go for at least a 750W just to make sure your not running underpowered or your graphics will run choppy and could cause the very nice card to over heat :D

evildead789

Thx for those quick replys guys, sorry about the late reply

I was looking for the cheapest rig and 900$ doesn't actually qualify. Someone told me I could run crysis on high settings with a dual core cpu of 2ghz and 8600gt. I don't know if that is true but you are posting something a lot more powerfull. I am looking for something that has the same power of an X360. And this is stronger than the cpu of 2 ghz. (the x360 has two cores of 3ghz)
I was think of buying a dual core 3.0ghz. But this quad you're suggesting is more expensive and has less ghz (2.66). Is it more powerfull for games?

I also heard the x360 graphical capabilities are comparable with a 7800 GTX. So the gtx 275 is out of the question. this is a lot more powerfull and lot more expensive.
the 8600gt mentioned above is weaker the 7800GTX. the 7800 gtx they don't sell anymore. So I think I will go for something like the 9500 gt . That should be in the same class according to this
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...rd,2118-7.html .
Or maybe the 9600 Gso (is a little bit more expensive) I would like the 8800 Gtx but that double the price of the 9500 gt (. I'm still thinking if that's worth the money. Again the gtx 275 is 4 times the price .

I won't say i'm not say i'm not tempted by the gtx 275. But then I need a lot stronger cpu. The gtx275 is a top notch card so you cpu needs be to top notch too otherwise your cpu is the bottleneck and I hate a slow system. But this gets us too far from this thread

Could you also tell what psu I would be needing with these cards /cpus. I think 700 W would be too much then.

thx

Tiber Septim

The problem with the 7 series cards are that they are starting to show their age. They were released mid 2006 and a lot of newer games are actually starting to list them as a minimum requirement.
You might be able to get away with one for a little while longer but you would be playing on low settings and will probably have to upgrade again quite soon.

When it comes to games dual cores are much better than quads as very few games actually take advantage of the extra threads. Also, there is no way an 8600GT would run Crysis on high settings. Even an 8800GTX can't achieve a playable framerate on high.

It might help to list your budget so we know what we have to work with.

MaxxSauce

Keep my post, but


SWITCH CPU to E8400 Dual Core 3.0GHz: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115037

And Graphics card to EVGA GTS 250: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130468

Good Hard Drive: WD Caviar 16MB cache 250GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136161

And Lite On DVD RW: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106291

This +TAX AND SHIPPING!!!!! will run you to $781.79 (at least for me, I live near sacramento, CA but shipping charge shouldn't be much different from newegg whereever u live.

PLEASE READ THIS TOO:

Do not buy last generation GFX Cards. 8/9 series are sub-par and are growing more pathetic by the minute. Do not go with any 7xxx, even for free. You will end up buying a new card anyway. All 8xxx series have a more advanced 9xxx series counterpart. And the best 9 series, the 9800GTX+, has been redesigned into the GTS 250 for lower power consumption, lower heat, and slightly better performance. 650W will be plenty sufficient for it too, you can even add more HDD or DVD later.

For a pc, you do NOT WANT EQUVALENT XBOX GRAPHICS. This is because the xbox is designed to run games at very low settings in order to keep the framerate up. Even though you may have it set to 1080p, it downsizes the games to make itself go faster. Similar to a computer, in that even if you have your desktop set to say 1280x1024, your games can be run at 1024x768 to make a higher framerate. You want to have the highest resolution your monitor can support first, and then have the rest of the settings as high as they can go to keep the framerate up. It will make for a much better gaming experience.

The GTS250 is the best deal right now, at $124.99, for the low-middle end cards. It will chew up CoD4 like a sandwich, and any other game for that matter besides crysis. With this card you might be able to get around 30-40 fps at medium settings on moderate resolution with no AA and no AF. The 8600GT will have trouble getting 20fps with everything set to the lowest it can go.

Sorry for the long report, but it kills me to think that someone is considering buying an old card in hopes of playing todays games, because I can already feel your disappointment if you get it. Please take my advice, I think that the rig I made is pretty decent for $780, far superior to xbox and very good looking too. That case is very nice, I have it with the clear side panel, and some blue 140mm fans and it looks very clean and professional, as well as blazing fast.

P.S. Who plays crysis anyway??? I always thought it was just a benchmark. I was suprised when the actual game came out after the demo

MaxxSauce

[quote=evildead789;2316045] I am looking for something that has the same power of an X360. And this is stronger than the cpu of 2 ghz. (the x360 has two cores of 3ghz)
I was think of buying a dual core 3.0ghz. But this quad you're suggesting is more expensive and has less ghz (2.66). Is it more powerfull for games?[\QUOTE]

I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but here is what I believe to be true:

The Xbox360 uses an IBM Xenon Triple core processor, which can hyperthread to open 6 threads at the same time. I'm unsure of the speed, but it is probably 2.0GHz or lower because of the consoles design.

Consoles are not really comparable to computers, because they run Operating Systems that can only open one application at a time. (To open xbox live marketplace, you must stop playing your game). Therefore, the console has no need for the 2.0-3.0GHz+ that it takes to run multiple applications, like all the anti-virus/java/system-update/internet/games at the same time. And of course, microsoft makes it the cheapest it can while it still works.

As for the graphics, I wouldn't compare those to PC either, because the ATI Xenos card that runs the 360 has completely different architecture than PC cards do. For instance, it only has 10MB of dedicated memory as opposed to the 512MB standard of todays modern cards. Please go with the GTS250 =DDD.

Hope I helped again.

MaxxSauce

fail quote

MaxxSauce

1.Whoever told you that obviously doesn't know what they are talking about.

2.Quad 2.66 will outperform the dual core 3.0 any day, however THERE IS RARELY AN APPLICATION THAT WILL PUSH THEM TO THEIR MAX, SO, MOSTLY YOU CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE. The Quad will be noticeably faster in an SLI/Crossfire setup, but since you won't be doing that, go with the E8400.

3.The 9500 GT will have trouble getting CoD4 past medium settings, don't even install crysis on a machine with that card. The GFX card (besides the CPU) is the one component you don't want to be frugal on.

4.You don't necessarily need a stronger CPU than a dual core 3.0ghz for the GTX275. For an SLI/xfire rig you would, but for a single-card setup the E8400 is pretty damn fast. There wouldn't be any bottlenecking as far as I know. But I think the GTS250 would still be a better choice for you.

5.Unrelated, but when judging CPU performance, you can go with Newegg's prices. The higher, the better. (Excluding Extreme editions). This is because there are many factors, not just GHz. There is Number of cores, number of threads, ghz, Cache memory, ##nm architechture, intended use etc. Don't judge on GHz alone.

This is my last post I promise (until you post again )

once again, hope i helped.

evildead789

Well thx again for all this information.

ok all this info gives me a better look at reality.
so the x360 hardware comparison doesn't seem to hold up.
But the quality that it produces seemed enough for me. I know it's hard to compare that. I played COD4 on it and for me it was ok. But off course If I can get better quality and it doesn't cost me too much I think I will go for the deal. (and yes I do want to play crysis) (and yes I need a decent framerate)

About budget I was thinking about spending 600$. I can spend a little bit more. but 700$ is the absolute max. I won't be needing a dvd , keyboard, mouse, monitor or hdd.

About the cpu. ok I will go with the E8400 cpu then .

About the gpu. I thought the 8800gtx could run crysis at high (this was the flagship card when crysis came out) but if that is not the case then maybe it's worth to spend those extra 25$. The gts 250 seems at reasonable price. That is a lot better suggestion than that 200$ gtx275
Also thx for suggesting me nvidia chipsets (i'm not an ati fan)

I was wandering about the mobo does it have to at be 95$. I have seen mobo's around 50$
The ASUS P5KPL-AM G31 mATX for example. This has also fsb1333 mhz.

Grtz & thx

P.S. I don't mind those long post Maxxsauce If I buy a rig and It can't play games decent I think I would break down and cry

MaxxSauce

I don't think that board is a good idea. Everything on it is below standard, and the mobo is the most important part of a rig. I think you can do better. If you don't need a DVD drive, that saves $25 which really isnt much. I think maybe we can save you a bit of money on the motherboard, hdd, case and possibly psu.

Let's go microATX for the case, cheaper mobos and cheaper cases. And do you want a window so you can see inside, or are you fine with a solid panel?

No Window: Cooler Master Elite (Saves $30): http://www.newegg.com/Shopping/Shopp...82E16811119161

Window: Cooler Master Elite (Saves $30, but non-window has free shipping) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119203

The PSU I think we can get an 80 Plus Certified 650-700W under $80. Let me try to find one. This sunbeam should be sufficient, 650W 80+ cert. ($78): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817709022

This Gigabyte is as low as I would go, $65, and has everything you need. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128388

It only supports DDR2800 memory, so switch the memory to (save $20): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227269

Let's keep that hard drive, because it is important to have a 16MB or greater cache on your boot drive, it makes games play more smoothly because the hard drive doesn't have to constantly load new data as often.

The CPU cooler I would switch to AC Freezer 7 Pro, since you won't be doing overclocking this will be perfect: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186134

This will run you to $650 (Including TAX+S&H). If you want to spend the rest of your $50 on something, I would suggest upgrade the case first, motherboard second, and memory third.

I assume you have your operating system already? If not that can be up to another $100 depending on if you find a good deal or not. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/re...uct/B0013O54P8 They have used ones from $60 and New from $70.


The thing about crysis is that if you only have $700 you're not going to be able to get past medium settings. The 8800GTX was the flagship card at crysis's time of release, but to play it on high or ultra high, you needed 2 or 3 8800GTX's in SLI and at that time they costed around $400 each. The GTS250 will easily offer you twice the performance of the 8800GTX in any area, but once again, with $700 I don't see crysis getting past medium and still being playable.

MaxxSauce

sorry I didnt read you didn't need a HDD, without that it will be pretty much exactly $600. But you might want to spend that money on a sata 3.0Gbps hdd because those old IDE drives just suck at playing games. You'll really notice a performance increase if you go with Sata.

MaxxSauce

WHAT RESOLUTION DO YOU PLAN TO PLAY AT?? What is your monitor's max?

Actual dude, now that you mention it, ATI might be a better choice. I know it will be hard to convince you because you are an nvidia fan, but the HD4870 might be an excellent choice for you. This is actually the card I have, it is only about $10-20 more than the GTS250, and from my own experience I would say it is much better than the GTS250 (my friend uses the 250 and ive seen him play games). Pretty much all Nvidias cards are better than the Ati equivalent, except that the HD4870>GTX260. And holy **** the price has dropped.

I have crysis, and I can play on high settings at 1440x900 and get 40-50 fps, and it is very playable and looks great man. Even though my screen goes up to 1920x1200, it still looks great.

FOR ONLY $1.99 MORE THAN THE GTS250: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131140

If your resolution is 1680x1050 or greater, go with the 1GB version for only $20 more than GTS250: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150394

Think about it dude... only $602 instead of $600, and you can get the settings up a whole notch. Oh and did I mention, CoD4 MAX SETTINGS 1920X1200 GETS 125FPS AVERAGE.

evildead789

Hi again and thx again,

So we are now at the 600$ point. That is a very good deal. I will take the case with no window (I don't really care about that). About that hdd I have a Western digital sata 160 gb 3.0gb/s. So I won't be needing that hdd. That psu looks sweet. The cpu cooler too.

About that gpu I've read reviews about the HD4870 and it pretty much beats even the gtx260. And it seems to be more silent too. So i'll guess i'll go for ati then.
I would be nice to play in high resolution (always played games before in 800x600 or 1024x768). I have a 21 inch monitor (adi microscan g1000) that can support 1990 x1440 resolution. So i'll be taking the 1gb version.

That puts us at 625$ if i'm correctly. The only thing i'm still wandering about is that mobo and that memory. You say that 65$ mobo only supports ddr2800 memory. There's a 12$ difference between the two types of memory and there's 30$ difference between the two mobo's. Is there a difference in speed here otherwise I would spend those extra 42$. Then I'm at 667$. That's still below my 700$ max. I hate to see there's a bottleneck in my memory.

I know you said upgrading the case first if I had more money to spend, but wouldn't it be better if I use that more expensive memory and mobo just for speed or is there something about that case that I don't know (now I'm thinking it's just about looks with that window)

I must say thank you for all your help. I work in the computer industry but it's in an environment where we use older systems (like p4 with ddr1 ram, ide hdd, 350W psu, and the weirdest cases). It's a business where they use pc's as tills in shops. Those pc's don't have to do a lot so those older pc's can really handle that (the oldest till we have is like an p1 running at 166mhz). My knowlegde about newer systems however is not up to date (especially not when it comes to gaming where you need a powerfull system). You've already been a big help

P.S. about hat OS. I was planning of setting up xp pro on it. I have vista too but I don't like that OS. It seems unstable and reminds me of windows millenium. Or am I wrong ?

Greetz