Trimming the Fat

DarkMessiah123 · 06-28-2009, 11:44 PM

Ok so I need some advice on where to "trim the fat" on this budget build. I am looking between $700-800 (US). This is a complete build so no legacy support nor monitors, keyboard, speakers, sound card, or mouse are needed. Primarily needs of this computer will be RTS gaming Sins of a Solar Empire, Age of Empires III, and Anno 1701. I want to run it smoothly and on the highest settings. Your advise is always welcomed and appreciated.

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R $115---- with rebate $105

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128359

CPU: Intel Q8400 $185

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115057

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar 500 GB (16 MB cache) $60

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136073

RAM: G-Skill DDR2 1066 2x2 GB $55

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231166

Graphic Card: Nvidia XFX GTX 260 $190---- with rebate $175

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150330

Operating System: Microsoft Vista Home Premium 64 bit $100

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116488

Case: Cooler Master Centurion $60---- with rebate $50

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119077

DVD-ROM: Lite-ON $20

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106276

Power Supply Unit: Thermaltake 700W $125---- with rebate $85

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153039

**wrench97** · 06-29-2009, 01:25 AM

There is not a lot of fat to trim it's a good looking build.
UD3L> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128372
DDR2 800 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220335

**Tyree** · 06-29-2009, 07:24 AM

Dual Core is be better for gaming but the price is about the same for the E8400 or E8500.
Use Windows 7. Save $100

**linderman** · 06-29-2009, 08:28 AM

win 7 and E8500 dual core is a better choice for gaming than Q8XXX

DarkMessiah123 · 06-29-2009, 09:29 AM

Well I would choose an Intel E8500 or E8400 but the thing is is that I want to at least future proof it a little. I know the 775 is a dead socket. BTW should I just get a 9800 GTX+ or should I just shill out the extra 60-80 dollars?

DarkMessiah123 · 06-29-2009, 09:41 AM

I am downloading Windows 7 64 bit so I can have it later on. Should I get the Q6600. It is on sale for $170. BTW I might not even overclock. Or should I just revamp the entire build and go with an AMD/ATI solution?

DarkMessiah123 · 06-29-2009, 09:43 AM

So $100 has been now knocked off for sure.

**Tyree** · 06-29-2009, 11:33 AM

The E8400/8500 will be just as "future proof" as a Quad Core and will result in a better gaming experience. The 775 socket is still a very viable platform and will be usable for some time.

**linderman** · 06-29-2009, 05:10 PM

the newer socket 1366 / i-7 cpu's will not push the socket 775 into the ground nearly as fast as intel would like it too ! the socket 775 has plenttttty of kick left to it ....... more than you will need for the next 2-3 years

Tumbleweed36 · 06-29-2009, 06:27 PM

I think you need to look at the original build and consider the consequences when you say to "trim fat" off that. If you want performance, there isn't much there that can be trimmed and still maintain that edge you are looking for. In addition, when you trim it down, you make it less future-proof and that is what you tell us you are looking for.

My advice is to go easy, very easy with the knife if you want a viable computer. As you trim, you are losing that cost/efficiency/performance ratio that was built in to this stated unit.

That is my opinion based upon my experience.

DarkMessiah123 · 06-29-2009, 11:46 PM

Well yes. I did want to at least future proof it a little bit. The main thing I am trying to say is that well am I just overpowering my build? Wouldn't it be better to get AMD products and save money there?

Tumbleweed36 · 06-30-2009, 04:14 AM

Although you can save money, you lose a little performance, lose a little of your resale value, and lose future proofing. AMD is not up to the standards of the Intel at this time, so the idea of future proofing the AMD is kind of out the window as soon as you get it.

Don't misunderstand, I do understand about your wanting to cut it down to save money. Just be sure you don't cut a leg off to do the job, so I am trying to give you the pro's and con's of cutting down from those rigs that were mentioned.

**Tyree** · 06-30-2009, 07:35 AM

Save $15 on the Graphics card. XFX has terrible support anyway.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150329

**linderman** · 06-30-2009, 07:33 PM

you will be giving away alot of horsepower changing to AMD unless you are going to use the newer deneb core........which wont fit your budget

you have a good list going there now .......dont mess with success is my VOTE

DarkWombat · 07-01-2009, 01:25 AM

I'd recommend an Antec Three Hundred case over the Cooler Master. No rebate so it's still $60:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042

When it comes to Nvidia cards, my favorite company would be EVGA. When it comes to the GTX 260, the only card worth getting is the Core 216 version. This one is better than your XFX and cheaper:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130433

I'm siding with the other posters here about the CPU: get a Dual core and save money. The coolers that ship with the quad core CPU's are borderline inadequate anyways so you're going to have to invest in a good aftermarket cooler. Unless you're going to run a lot of Adobe CS4 you're not going to see much of an improvement going with a quad-core processor but you'll still pay more and your computer will be hotter.

Get a Core2 8500 with this cooler and you'll be set:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186134

Oh and as for your DVD drive, are you sure you don't want to get a DVD burner instead?

Also are you (or do you know) a college student? You can get great discounts on operating systems through universities. You should see if you can get a hold of a highly discounted version of XP and then go with the Windows 7 pre-order and get the Home Premium edition for $50.

**linderman** · 07-01-2009, 07:47 AM

i keep forgetting antec 300 is now in competion in the $60.00 price range for cases now ...... the 300 is a better case than the centurion but often times you can find the centurion for under $50.00 which makes it hard to pass up

either way you go is a good deal

the poster above has some very good thoughts to intergrate into your decision

Cannibalsnail · 07-03-2009, 03:41 AM

I suggest you go with a HD 4770. I know you want to go with Nvidia but I am highly impressed with this card. It is an exceptionally powerful card for its price tag and it is one of the only 40nm GPU's out there. However make sure you get the one with the full cooler not the cheapo fan that has been put on some of them to save money. If you are primarily playing RTS's then a high powered gfx card isnt that much neccesity. RTS's uitilise CPU more than GPU's. Also for RTS's I would reccomend going a with a quad core option as more and more RTS's are utilising multiple cores as it is the perfect solution for doing large amounts of simultaneous eqautions.

06-28-2009, 11:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
DarkMessiah123 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 35 OS: XP	Trimming the Fat Ok so I need some advice on where to "trim the fat" on this budget build. I am looking between $700-800 (US). This is a complete build so no legacy support nor monitors, keyboard, speakers, sound card, or mouse are needed. Primarily needs of this computer will be RTS gaming Sins of a Solar Empire, Age of Empires III, and Anno 1701. I want to run it smoothly and on the highest settings. Your advise is always welcomed and appreciated. Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R $115---- with rebate $105 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128359 CPU: Intel Q8400 $185 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115057 Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar 500 GB (16 MB cache) $60 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136073 RAM: G-Skill DDR2 1066 2x2 GB $55 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231166 Graphic Card: Nvidia XFX GTX 260 $190---- with rebate $175 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150330 Operating System: Microsoft Vista Home Premium 64 bit $100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116488 Case: Cooler Master Centurion $60---- with rebate $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119077 DVD-ROM: Lite-ON $20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106276 Power Supply Unit: Thermaltake 700W $125---- with rebate $85 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153039 Last edited by DarkMessiah123; 06-28-2009 at 11:48 PM.

06-29-2009, 01:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
wrench97 Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 17,868 OS: XPSP3	Re: Trimming the Fat There is not a lot of fat to trim it's a good looking build. UD3L> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128372 DDR2 800 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220335 __________________ Power Supply and Selection Last edited by wrench97; 06-29-2009 at 01:28 AM.

06-29-2009, 07:24 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tyree Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: May 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,729 OS: XP Pro-7RC-Mandriva My System	Re: Trimming the Fat Dual Core is be better for gaming but the price is about the same for the E8400 or E8500. Use Windows 7. Save $100 __________________ Posting your PC specs will help us to help you quicker and more efficiently.

06-29-2009, 08:28 AM	#4 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,399 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	Re: Trimming the Fat win 7 and E8500 dual core is a better choice for gaming than Q8XXX __________________ Even a Broken Clock is Right Twice a Day ! Power Supply Selection LEARN TO BACK-UP YOUR DATA FREE & EASY YouTube - Runtime Software DriveImage XML tutorial

06-29-2009, 09:29 AM	#5 (permalink)
DarkMessiah123 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 35 OS: XP	Re: Trimming the Fat Well I would choose an Intel E8500 or E8400 but the thing is is that I want to at least future proof it a little. I know the 775 is a dead socket. BTW should I just get a 9800 GTX+ or should I just shill out the extra 60-80 dollars?

06-29-2009, 09:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
DarkMessiah123 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 35 OS: XP	Re: Trimming the Fat I am downloading Windows 7 64 bit so I can have it later on. Should I get the Q6600. It is on sale for $170. BTW I might not even overclock. Or should I just revamp the entire build and go with an AMD/ATI solution?

06-29-2009, 09:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
DarkMessiah123 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 35 OS: XP	Re: Trimming the Fat So $100 has been now knocked off for sure. Last edited by DarkMessiah123; 06-29-2009 at 09:49 AM.

06-29-2009, 11:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
Tyree Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: May 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,729 OS: XP Pro-7RC-Mandriva My System	Re: Trimming the Fat The E8400/8500 will be just as "future proof" as a Quad Core and will result in a better gaming experience. The 775 socket is still a very viable platform and will be usable for some time. __________________ Posting your PC specs will help us to help you quicker and more efficiently.

06-29-2009, 05:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,399 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	Re: Trimming the Fat the newer socket 1366 / i-7 cpu's will not push the socket 775 into the ground nearly as fast as intel would like it too ! the socket 775 has plenttttty of kick left to it ....... more than you will need for the next 2-3 years __________________ Even a Broken Clock is Right Twice a Day ! Power Supply Selection LEARN TO BACK-UP YOUR DATA FREE & EASY YouTube - Runtime Software DriveImage XML tutorial

06-29-2009, 06:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 19,455 OS: XP Professional	Re: Trimming the Fat I think you need to look at the original build and consider the consequences when you say to "trim fat" off that. If you want performance, there isn't much there that can be trimmed and still maintain that edge you are looking for. In addition, when you trim it down, you make it less future-proof and that is what you tell us you are looking for. My advice is to go easy, very easy with the knife if you want a viable computer. As you trim, you are losing that cost/efficiency/performance ratio that was built in to this stated unit. That is my opinion based upon my experience. __________________ ---------- I don't receive email notifications of replies to subscribed threads. (Internet provider policy) Therefore, if I don't respond to your post within 24 hours, please send me a reminder PM and include the link to your thread. Last edited by Tumbleweed36; 06-29-2009 at 06:29 PM.

06-29-2009, 11:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
DarkMessiah123 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 35 OS: XP	Re: Trimming the Fat Well yes. I did want to at least future proof it a little bit. The main thing I am trying to say is that well am I just overpowering my build? Wouldn't it be better to get AMD products and save money there?

06-30-2009, 04:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 19,455 OS: XP Professional	Re: Trimming the Fat Although you can save money, you lose a little performance, lose a little of your resale value, and lose future proofing. AMD is not up to the standards of the Intel at this time, so the idea of future proofing the AMD is kind of out the window as soon as you get it. Don't misunderstand, I do understand about your wanting to cut it down to save money. Just be sure you don't cut a leg off to do the job, so I am trying to give you the pro's and con's of cutting down from those rigs that were mentioned. __________________ ---------- I don't receive email notifications of replies to subscribed threads. (Internet provider policy) Therefore, if I don't respond to your post within 24 hours, please send me a reminder PM and include the link to your thread. Last edited by Tumbleweed36; 06-30-2009 at 04:18 AM.

06-30-2009, 07:35 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tyree Mentor Hardware Team Join Date: May 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,729 OS: XP Pro-7RC-Mandriva My System	Re: Trimming the Fat Save $15 on the Graphics card. XFX has terrible support anyway. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150329 __________________ Posting your PC specs will help us to help you quicker and more efficiently.

06-30-2009, 07:33 PM	#14 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,399 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	Re: Trimming the Fat you will be giving away alot of horsepower changing to AMD unless you are going to use the newer deneb core........which wont fit your budget you have a good list going there now .......dont mess with success is my VOTE __________________ Even a Broken Clock is Right Twice a Day ! Power Supply Selection LEARN TO BACK-UP YOUR DATA FREE & EASY YouTube - Runtime Software DriveImage XML tutorial

07-01-2009, 01:25 AM	#15 (permalink)
DarkWombat Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 19 OS: XP SP3 / Windows 7 Beta My System	Re: Trimming the Fat I'd recommend an Antec Three Hundred case over the Cooler Master. No rebate so it's still $60: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042 When it comes to Nvidia cards, my favorite company would be EVGA. When it comes to the GTX 260, the only card worth getting is the Core 216 version. This one is better than your XFX and cheaper: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130433 I'm siding with the other posters here about the CPU: get a Dual core and save money. The coolers that ship with the quad core CPU's are borderline inadequate anyways so you're going to have to invest in a good aftermarket cooler. Unless you're going to run a lot of Adobe CS4 you're not going to see much of an improvement going with a quad-core processor but you'll still pay more and your computer will be hotter. Get a Core2 8500 with this cooler and you'll be set: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186134 Oh and as for your DVD drive, are you sure you don't want to get a DVD burner instead? Also are you (or do you know) a college student? You can get great discounts on operating systems through universities. You should see if you can get a hold of a highly discounted version of XP and then go with the Windows 7 pre-order and get the Home Premium edition for $50. Last edited by DarkWombat; 07-01-2009 at 01:29 AM.

07-01-2009, 07:47 AM	#16 (permalink)
linderman Moderator, Hardware Team Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,399 OS: win 2000 pro / Win XP pro My System	Re: Trimming the Fat i keep forgetting antec 300 is now in competion in the $60.00 price range for cases now ...... the 300 is a better case than the centurion but often times you can find the centurion for under $50.00 which makes it hard to pass up either way you go is a good deal the poster above has some very good thoughts to intergrate into your decision __________________ Even a Broken Clock is Right Twice a Day ! Power Supply Selection LEARN TO BACK-UP YOUR DATA FREE & EASY YouTube - Runtime Software DriveImage XML tutorial

07-03-2009, 03:41 AM	#17 (permalink)
Cannibalsnail Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 40 OS: Win XP My System	Re: Trimming the Fat I suggest you go with a HD 4770. I know you want to go with Nvidia but I am highly impressed with this card. It is an exceptionally powerful card for its price tag and it is one of the only 40nm GPU's out there. However make sure you get the one with the full cooler not the cheapo fan that has been put on some of them to save money. If you are primarily playing RTS's then a high powered gfx card isnt that much neccesity. RTS's uitilise CPU more than GPU's. Also for RTS's I would reccomend going a with a quad core option as more and more RTS's are utilising multiple cores as it is the perfect solution for doing large amounts of simultaneous eqautions.