Planning New Gaming Rig - Page 3

1 g0t 0wn3d · 03-22-2008, 01:19 PM

It is ok that is just the bords max you can go below it

8400 is cheaper but better

ShosMeister · 03-22-2008, 03:17 PM

Thanks! Just to ensure I've got all the advice straight:

For now, stick with DDR2 as it's good enough and DDR2-800 at that. But, if I could find a board that would support DDR2 and DDR3, and there wasn't a huge difference in price, go that way to allow for upgrading the RAM in a few years. If I don't need to worry about the DDR3 then that changes my motherboard considerations some.

Motherboards: Asus or Gigabyte and I can't go wrong. Still don't quite get the difference between P35 and X35 though. If I'm dead set on RAID, is it better to have the RAID ON the motherboard rather than an add-on PCI card? I'm thinking yes as it's probably easier to setup since it's integrated; more control through the BIOS; less problems if you have to reinstall OS (was going to be on RAID 1/mirror, NOT striped) since the driver/controller is built-in.

The decision on RAID will determine my drive decision, but, I'm still thinking a smaller drive for OS and Applications (games) and a separate for data like mapping and such. If I don't RAID, I may just get one 160 or 250 GB drive also.

Think that's it for now. Need to get off the fence and just make a decision on some of these things soon (I KNOW!), but I really appreciate the input you guys are giving me!!!

1 g0t 0wn3d · 03-22-2008, 03:32 PM

i would stay with ddr2

and i would stay away from raid (just me)

ShosMeister · 03-22-2008, 04:52 PM

Everyone keeps recommending the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L and I've been looking at it. What about the GA-EP35C-DS3R? It has DDR2 and DDR3 support, no serial or parallel ports (which I haven't used in years anyway) and it has RAID built in (I guess as built in as you can get).

The difference in cost would be the same as the RAID card I was going to put in anyway (just a bit less) and all I lose is the ability to RAID IDE (on the card but not on this board).

I don't see a lot else different between the two.

1 g0t 0wn3d · 03-22-2008, 05:00 PM

that and it has ultra durable 2 capasators instead of the ultra durible 1 on the first board ether one is a good choice

**forcifer** · 03-24-2008, 08:52 AM

the 800 will work find you wont find any problems. you can get the 1066 if you want, but let me put mem speed in perspective:
in Counter-Strike: Source, a not very demanding graphics game at all, the differences between 1066 and 800 ram was a grand total of 4 fps. ram speed doesnt matter near as much as ram amounts (to some point anyway)

ShosMeister · 03-24-2008, 10:54 AM

Thanks for the simple explanation!

ShosMeister · 07-03-2008, 01:49 PM

No it's not dead :) :)

Just finished my last semester:
HUM 400: 97
CIS 499: 95

Whew. Now back to the build. I'd already purchased a few of the pieces over the last few months (CPU, HDs, etc.) but, when I went to look at my wish list, the graphics card wasn't there. I'm trying to find out what happened to it (I think it was the Sapphire HD3870x2 but it's discontinued on NewEgg).

Anyway, in looking at Sapphire's site, I noticed this:

System Requirements

PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard.
550 Watt or greater power supply with two 2x3-pin PCIe® power connectors required (750 Watt and four 6-pin connectors for dual ATI CrossFireX™)
For enhanced performance with ATI Overdrive™, a power supply with one 2x3-pin and one 2x4-pin PCIe® power connector is required

What's with the 2x3 pin connnector? Are those standard on most power supplies now? I was going to get the SeaSonic 700W ( Power Supply. Will that still work?

I'll start looking around for other places to buy the video card in the meantime. I'm probably looking at $1000 for the rest of the stuff so it may be a couple of weeks before I get everything, but, I'll post back even if I don't have any problems putting it together :) :)

ShosMeister · 07-03-2008, 01:53 PM

Just received a reply from Sapphire:

Yes the HD3870X2 will be discontinue, ATI does not produce his card anymore because of the new release of the HD4K.

Tech
Sapphire Technology
Tech Support Center

What's the HD4K?

patriothntr · 07-04-2008, 08:53 AM

The 4850 and 4870 cards...look at them...they're quite nice, and priced fairly competitively as well. Also have a look at the 9800gx2.

ShosMeister · 07-04-2008, 01:42 PM

Thanks Patriot, that's what I was thinking but wanted to be sure. I also just saw an article about a 4870x2 due out July/August so I'll try to look for that one as well.

Appreciate the reply!!!!

outermon · 07-04-2008, 02:12 PM

I skipped a lot, but read most of the first and third pages... I know you like cyperpowerpc.com. Well, ibuypower.com is pretty much the same thing. They really rip off each other a lot. I'm thinking they might be owned by the same people, or they just like copying each other, because they're both excellent sites.

I don't get why anyone would recommend Quad-Core for a gaming rig. Maybe Tri-Core so System Processes can run on the third core, but games will only run on two cores (at least for the time being, doesn't look like they'll use four cores for a while). Most games only run on one core.

What I recommend is:
750W Thermaltake Toughpower
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E8400 (3Ghz)
Thermaltake MaxOrb CPU Cooling Fan System Kit
MSI P35 Neo-F P35 Motherboard
4 GB [1 GB X4] DDR2-800 PC6400 (Cheapest one)
NVidia Geforce 9800GTX 512MB

Those are all the really big important specs. Also, you could go for the 1GB Ram and upgrade it yourself, it'd be A LOT cheaper. I'm talking hundreds of dollars cheaper. 4GB of 1066 RAM costs less than $100 on newegg.com. You may not want to mess around inside your beautiful new machine, but trust me, changing RAM is SOOOOO simple. All you do is open your case (usually just two screws and then pull it off), then just shove the ram in and lock it in place with the 2 little clips on the motherboard. The process is barbaric when compared to how high-tech the devices are. There are lots of guides online. Just make sure you TOUCH THE METAL BACK PART OF YOUR CASE A LOT. Maybe even try to hold it the whole time you're putting the RAM in. Static electricity can damage RAM. I just did a build yesterday, and all i did was make sure i kept touching the metal back part of the case, and everything went fine.

ShosMeister · 07-06-2008, 04:07 AM

Hey Outermon, thanks!!! Unfortunately you did skip a lot :) :) but that's okay. The short update is that I've been convinced to build my own which is what my last post was about - the unavailability of the video card I had originally decided on.

So I guess the question now though is should I get the 3870x2 (which there are still a few from other manufacturers) or wait a month for the 4870x2 and hope they aren't all PCIE 2.0?? Any thoughts on that?

ShosMeister · 07-14-2008, 02:40 PM

Okay, looking at the 3870x2 - pretty much decided if I wait for the 4870x2 then something else will be just over the horizon so, bite the bullet and go.

Frys has the ATI and VisionTek.

TigerDirect has the Diamond and the VisionTek.

MWave also has the Diamond, MSI and VisionTek.

NewEgg also has an HIS. I'd never heard of them.

Is one manufacturer better (since I haven't had a lot of experience with any of them thought I'd ask)? Other than the huge price differences (MWave has a free Rainbow Six game), would it be better to go to the source - ATI?

Thanks again for all the help! I promise I'll post stats and pictures when I get this done.

ShosMeister · 07-26-2008, 10:21 AM

Bump :(

**stressfreesoul** · 07-26-2008, 01:33 PM

by golly this is a long thread!!! Took me an hour to read it!! Go for the Tiger Direct Diamond card.

**Jtsou** · 07-27-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShosMeister

I'd have to agree, but, not based on knowledge. I put together a spread sheet with all the CPUs and did a basic cost comparison based on speed, cache, FSB and combined and the 8400 is the best value.

The question though, to me at least, is why does the 8400 cost less then the 6850? When you compare them side-by-side, the 8400 has a larger cache and is 45nm as opposed to 65nm. Other than that, they are identical. Why the cost difference and why isn't the 8400 more expensive?

I just noticed this post in my USER CP.

The E6850 is more expensive because Intel wants the new 45nm CPUs to take off. They are the future and are more efficient, the 65nm CPUs are old news now, and Intel wants them gone.

ShosMeister · 07-29-2008, 02:56 PM

That makes sense Jtsou. Thanks!

Sorry for the long thread StressFree. I'm hoping that others may find some of it useful if they do a search for any of the information here. BTW, why do you recommend the Diamond card? Just curious as I'm piecing together the information I'm getting here as "real world" experience with the reviews that I've read. I was looking at the VisionTek or ASUS.

And THANKS for taking the time to read the thread - I REALLY appreciate it!!!

03-22-2008, 01:19 PM	#41 (permalink)
1 g0t 0wn3d Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Sedona, az Posts: 6,207 OS: Vista basic 32bit My System	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig It is ok that is just the bords max you can go below it 8400 is cheaper but better __________________ Bench Test \| PC Wizard \| System specs \| PSU info \| PSU calculator \| Memtest86+ \| Speedfan

03-22-2008, 03:17 PM	#42 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig Thanks! Just to ensure I've got all the advice straight: For now, stick with DDR2 as it's good enough and DDR2-800 at that. But, if I could find a board that would support DDR2 and DDR3, and there wasn't a huge difference in price, go that way to allow for upgrading the RAM in a few years. If I don't need to worry about the DDR3 then that changes my motherboard considerations some. Motherboards: Asus or Gigabyte and I can't go wrong. Still don't quite get the difference between P35 and X35 though. If I'm dead set on RAID, is it better to have the RAID ON the motherboard rather than an add-on PCI card? I'm thinking yes as it's probably easier to setup since it's integrated; more control through the BIOS; less problems if you have to reinstall OS (was going to be on RAID 1/mirror, NOT striped) since the driver/controller is built-in. The decision on RAID will determine my drive decision, but, I'm still thinking a smaller drive for OS and Applications (games) and a separate for data like mapping and such. If I don't RAID, I may just get one 160 or 250 GB drive also. Think that's it for now. Need to get off the fence and just make a decision on some of these things soon (I KNOW!), but I really appreciate the input you guys are giving me!!!

03-22-2008, 03:32 PM	#43 (permalink)
1 g0t 0wn3d Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Sedona, az Posts: 6,207 OS: Vista basic 32bit My System	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig i would stay with ddr2 and i would stay away from raid (just me) __________________ Bench Test \| PC Wizard \| System specs \| PSU info \| PSU calculator \| Memtest86+ \| Speedfan

03-22-2008, 04:52 PM	#44 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig Everyone keeps recommending the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L and I've been looking at it. What about the GA-EP35C-DS3R? It has DDR2 and DDR3 support, no serial or parallel ports (which I haven't used in years anyway) and it has RAID built in (I guess as built in as you can get). The difference in cost would be the same as the RAID card I was going to put in anyway (just a bit less) and all I lose is the ability to RAID IDE (on the card but not on this board). I don't see a lot else different between the two.

03-22-2008, 05:00 PM	#45 (permalink)
1 g0t 0wn3d Hardware Team Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Sedona, az Posts: 6,207 OS: Vista basic 32bit My System	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig that and it has ultra durable 2 capasators instead of the ultra durible 1 on the first board ether one is a good choice __________________ Bench Test \| PC Wizard \| System specs \| PSU info \| PSU calculator \| Memtest86+ \| Speedfan

03-24-2008, 08:52 AM	#46 (permalink)
forcifer good bye and good luck Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kansas City kansas Posts: 3,486 OS: Vista Premium 32 My System Blog Entries: 1	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig the 800 will work find you wont find any problems. you can get the 1066 if you want, but let me put mem speed in perspective: in Counter-Strike: Source, a not very demanding graphics game at all, the differences between 1066 and 800 ram was a grand total of 4 fps. ram speed doesnt matter near as much as ram amounts (to some point anyway) __________________ im back...i guess...

03-24-2008, 10:54 AM	#47 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig Thanks for the simple explanation!

07-03-2008, 01:49 PM	#48 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig No it's not dead :) :) Just finished my last semester: HUM 400: 97 CIS 499: 95 Whew. Now back to the build. I'd already purchased a few of the pieces over the last few months (CPU, HDs, etc.) but, when I went to look at my wish list, the graphics card wasn't there. I'm trying to find out what happened to it (I think it was the Sapphire HD3870x2 but it's discontinued on NewEgg). Anyway, in looking at Sapphire's site, I noticed this: System Requirements PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard. 550 Watt or greater power supply with two 2x3-pin PCIe® power connectors required (750 Watt and four 6-pin connectors for dual ATI CrossFireX™) For enhanced performance with ATI Overdrive™, a power supply with one 2x3-pin and one 2x4-pin PCIe® power connector is required What's with the 2x3 pin connnector? Are those standard on most power supplies now? I was going to get the SeaSonic 700W ( Power Supply. Will that still work? I'll start looking around for other places to buy the video card in the meantime. I'm probably looking at $1000 for the rest of the stuff so it may be a couple of weeks before I get everything, but, I'll post back even if I don't have any problems putting it together :) :)

07-03-2008, 01:53 PM	#49 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig Just received a reply from Sapphire: Yes the HD3870X2 will be discontinue, ATI does not produce his card anymore because of the new release of the HD4K. Tech Sapphire Technology Tech Support Center What's the HD4K?

07-04-2008, 08:53 AM	#50 (permalink)
patriothntr Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 321 OS: XPsp3, PCLOS, other	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig The 4850 and 4870 cards...look at them...they're quite nice, and priced fairly competitively as well. Also have a look at the 9800gx2.

07-04-2008, 01:42 PM	#51 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig Thanks Patriot, that's what I was thinking but wanted to be sure. I also just saw an article about a 4870x2 due out July/August so I'll try to look for that one as well. Appreciate the reply!!!!

07-04-2008, 02:12 PM	#52 (permalink)
outermon Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 49 OS: Windows XP SP2	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig I skipped a lot, but read most of the first and third pages... I know you like cyperpowerpc.com. Well, ibuypower.com is pretty much the same thing. They really rip off each other a lot. I'm thinking they might be owned by the same people, or they just like copying each other, because they're both excellent sites. I don't get why anyone would recommend Quad-Core for a gaming rig. Maybe Tri-Core so System Processes can run on the third core, but games will only run on two cores (at least for the time being, doesn't look like they'll use four cores for a while). Most games only run on one core. What I recommend is: 750W Thermaltake Toughpower Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E8400 (3Ghz) Thermaltake MaxOrb CPU Cooling Fan System Kit MSI P35 Neo-F P35 Motherboard 4 GB [1 GB X4] DDR2-800 PC6400 (Cheapest one) NVidia Geforce 9800GTX 512MB Those are all the really big important specs. Also, you could go for the 1GB Ram and upgrade it yourself, it'd be A LOT cheaper. I'm talking hundreds of dollars cheaper. 4GB of 1066 RAM costs less than $100 on newegg.com. You may not want to mess around inside your beautiful new machine, but trust me, changing RAM is SOOOOO simple. All you do is open your case (usually just two screws and then pull it off), then just shove the ram in and lock it in place with the 2 little clips on the motherboard. The process is barbaric when compared to how high-tech the devices are. There are lots of guides online. Just make sure you TOUCH THE METAL BACK PART OF YOUR CASE A LOT. Maybe even try to hold it the whole time you're putting the RAM in. Static electricity can damage RAM. I just did a build yesterday, and all i did was make sure i kept touching the metal back part of the case, and everything went fine.

07-06-2008, 04:07 AM	#53 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig Hey Outermon, thanks!!! Unfortunately you did skip a lot :) :) but that's okay. The short update is that I've been convinced to build my own which is what my last post was about - the unavailability of the video card I had originally decided on. So I guess the question now though is should I get the 3870x2 (which there are still a few from other manufacturers) or wait a month for the 4870x2 and hope they aren't all PCIE 2.0?? Any thoughts on that?

07-14-2008, 02:40 PM	#54 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig Okay, looking at the 3870x2 - pretty much decided if I wait for the 4870x2 then something else will be just over the horizon so, bite the bullet and go. Frys has the ATI and VisionTek. TigerDirect has the Diamond and the VisionTek. MWave also has the Diamond, MSI and VisionTek. NewEgg also has an HIS. I'd never heard of them. Is one manufacturer better (since I haven't had a lot of experience with any of them thought I'd ask)? Other than the huge price differences (MWave has a free Rainbow Six game), would it be better to go to the source - ATI? Thanks again for all the help! I promise I'll post stats and pictures when I get this done.

07-26-2008, 10:21 AM	#55 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig Bump :(

07-26-2008, 01:33 PM	#56 (permalink)
stressfreesoul Inspector Gadget... Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yorkshire/County Durham Posts: 813 OS: XP My System Blog Entries: 5	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig by golly this is a long thread!!! Took me an hour to read it!! Go for the Tiger Direct Diamond card. __________________ *trust me.....Im a doctor...*

07-29-2008, 02:56 PM	#58 (permalink)
ShosMeister Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harpers Ferry, WV Posts: 351 OS: OS X 10.4.x	Re: Planning New Gaming Rig That makes sense Jtsou. Thanks! Sorry for the long thread StressFree. I'm hoping that others may find some of it useful if they do a search for any of the information here. BTW, why do you recommend the Diamond card? Just curious as I'm piecing together the information I'm getting here as "real world" experience with the reviews that I've read. I was looking at the VisionTek or ASUS. And THANKS for taking the time to read the thread - I REALLY appreciate it!!!