jayjay22

Hello all fellow techies,
New forum user here, may I say that I enjoy reading your forum, especially the computer pro section. I now would like to begin participating in the forum as I have recently started a Computer Repair and Training business. I would like to ask some questions and get some opinions. Would appreciate any responses and advice offered. First, I have filed a DBA and gotten my Tax ID number. I have also begun making T-shirts with my company name and logo on the front and back.
I am trying to get small business insurance. The lowest premium I can find is $510/12 months. I read on the forum that a few people have found it for about $250/12 months. Everywhere I call tells me that the minimum premium that can be offered is $500. Is this just in the state of new york? Anyone know what is a good source of low-cost small business insurance in the state of NY? Also, what is the major risk of operating without insurance? The obvious answer is you can get sued. Someone on this forum recommended if not getting insurance to have $2000 saved up in case something breaks. If working on home users systems though, the most expensive damage that could occur while working on a PC is maybe the motherboard dies. It should be no more than $100-$150 to replace for the customer. I cannot think of anything that could break that could be more expensive than $150. If I am wrong, please tell me. It is very possible that I am thinking too narrowly.
Also, I am planning on charging a flat on-site/in-home service fee of $50. I would say $50/hr, but I think $50 flat fee sounds better to the customer and I really cannot foresee many repairs taking much longer than an hour. What does everyone think of this concept.
Also, I have been looking for a contract that I could possibly modify and use just as an agreement between myself and the customer. I cannot seem to find a prewritten form that I could copy and modify. If anyone knows where I can find one, please let me know. It is not a big deal if I have to draft one up myself, but I just wondered if one was already available. On the topic of the contract, does anyone have trouble getting people to sign them? Is it better to just hand it to them and explain that it is just a contract for your services, or to sit down and take a few minutes to fully explain what is in the contract?
I definitely appreciate any and all advice I can get from anyone. I know I can do well in this business, I just have alot of questions. Thanks again.

ebackhus

I don't know a thing about NY insurance rates or regulations so I can't help there.

A new motherboard may cost you about $100-150 IF you can get one. If you're working on the infamous Presario with ME and the board breaks you may have a very hard time replacing it. That's monetarily and time-wise.

I currently charge just $15/hour for house calls and service I do at my place. I'm about $45-65 cheaper than most places here in town. A flat fee is good if you can guage the job before hand. You don't want to be burdened with a machine that will take up an entire day and just make $50 for you. That's like working for minimum wage.

As far as contracts go I like to keep it simple and understandable. To be safe I always read the parts that say how things like data isn't my responsibility if backups aren't requested blah blah blah. Do you ever read the contract? Think of it from their perspective. They already know they may have you pay out the butt for some wild repairs, the last thing they want to do is read something that is saying they might have to pay more! It also lets them make last minute requests or confirm things. Use the same contract for your private customers. You may also want to draft up something else if you deal with companies or do fleet work.

That about covers the basics. Feel free to stop on by or PM for anything else.

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There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them.

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jayjay22

ebackhus, thanks for taking the time to respond. Good point about the motherboard from a presario, I hate most brand name computers. Parts are too proprietary. No matter, I definitely do want to go with the insurance anyway, just wish I could find it for under $510/yr. I suppose that is not a bad price, but I know people have said they got it for less than half that. Oh well. As far as the flat fee goes, I put on my business card "$50 flat fee for most repairs". Just incase I get a real tough one that I know will take awhile. I am extremely confident in my skills as a hardware troubleshooter, since I have been doing it for quite some time as a hobby. I also have 2 years of technical school and a degree in computer sciences. I am also well versed in all versions of windows from 9x up to 2003 server. The only thing that really concerns me is dealing with nasty viruses and spyware. I know that at least half of my calls are going to be problems caused by some teenagers bad surfing and downloading habits. I have never been very good at cleaning my system of some of the stuff i have encountered, and I actually am careful to try to keep the stuff off my computer in the first place. So I can only imagine what some average non-technical joe schmoe will have lurking on his PC. Sure, sometimes after running multiple programs multiple times, I am lucky enough to have cleaned it so it will not come back right away, but more often than not, I usually eventually end up reformatting and reinstalling windows at some point because it always does seem to come back. I suppose after some time I will get better at it. It just takes practice. Can anyone recommend some good freeware spyware and anti-virus tools which are ok for business use? The last concern I have in this is being able to convince the people with pirated versions of windows that they must buy a real copy of windows for minimum $89 if they want me to be able to properly fix their computer. I suppose this did not used to be such a big deal, until M$ began tightening up the protections on XP so that now windows update cannot run if you have a blacklisted key. I assume this is an issue that everyone deals with from time to time? If so, how do you approach it? Just tell them that windows will not work properly unless they buy a real copy? Ah well, I will deal with that when I get to that point. Anyone else have any suggestions? Thanks again for your response and suggestions ebackhus.

ebackhus

For $510/year I would be happy. It'll save your butt at one time or another so it's really worth the small investment.

Be careful not to be overconfident. I've been doing PC work since I was 10 and there are still new things that I encounter. But if you're really that good that you can fix most anything under an hour then you could really bank on that.

Fixing issues like a virus and spyware can be daunting to any technician. The tools used vary from company to company on how they can be used in a commercial environment. Sometimes you pay a premium subscription price for updates but get premium support and services. Other times there is not additional cost but you must register as a legitimate company/business to receive premium service. When I have to deal with stuff like that I prefer to just rip the offending drive out and put it into a "safe" PC to run scans. I'd never use my main desktop for that kind of work because of the hightened risk of infection.

The policy here at TSF is that we DO NOT provide support for users who have pirated software. From one businessman to another I recommend that you do just the same. OEM copies of Windows can be obtained legally for good prices if you purchase them as a business. Don't completely write off the customer but inform them of the facts.

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There are no dumb questions, unless a customer is asking them.

Help in the fight against cancer and other serious illnesses.

whodat

will that just be for the gas for traveling?

Krehator

Just stumbled across this so I registered real quick to post....lol

I'm doing the same thing, $50 flat fee repair. God I hope we're not close to each other and will step on each other. ;)

One of the things you have to realize is that it will be very slow at first. $50 per repair might be a great deal if you can fix it quick and it takes awhile to build up word of mouth. Once you get going you'll make money the same way large computer stores do - fixing multiple computers at the same time. Once you get 2 or 3 computers at a time you can make better profit. Still consider how often you'll get a computer in. I do this as a side job and because I love it. I'm not getting rich from it. I make a little extra cash from part markups as well.

Customers will use you and return to you for a few reasons:

#1 Price
#2 Confidence in your skill and honesty.
#3 Feeling valued

Price is the #1 toughest thing to sell to a customer in any business. I've been a salesmen before so I know. You're on the right track already because $50 flat fee will stomp competition in your area. Big computer stores have too much overhead. Doing this out of your home is the best route when you first start out.

#2 You definately have to push. Most customers have VERY LITTLE confidence in big computer stores. Their techs...well.....often aren't so good. Book trained with tons of certs from diploma mills. They've been ripped off so many times they often get "someone they know" to fix the computer in the future. You can be that "someone". Here's an interesting page.....

How good are computer stores?

#3 If you constantly make customers feel like they're the most important customer you have, they will come back. They will also tell friends about you. Major computer stores make customers feel like cattle. Ever tried to get tech help in some of them? They're too cheap even to hire enough help. On any day there are only 2/10 registers open. You see what I mean? Beware not to spoil customers though because they'll always want freebies. Business is about making profit, not doing favors.


I currently do:

$50 Flat Fee on labor (off-site repair only)

Free Pickup and Delivery within 10 miles of my area. ($10 otherwise)

$40/hr for on-site repairs. Commercial customers mostly.

All parts are extra, usually 25% markup over my cost. I also allow the customer to supply their own parts if they think they can get it cheaper. It makes you look more honest eventhough most don't supply their own anyway.

Free computer cleaning. I do this as a rule because customers equate a clean and good looking computer with a well operating one. I also HATE dirty computers. It's computer abuse.

Free software. I pack them up with FREEWARE stuff off the web. Safe stuff like anti-virus tools and spyware scanners that anyone can get.

I also keep in conact with them. They know what is going on at every step. Before I do anything major I call them and let them know. They don't feel surprised or get surprise charges this way.

I've built up a professional looking set of documentation (pickup/delivery slips, receipts, contracts, ect). You should do the same if you haven't already. Cover your butt with paperwork! There are many ppl out there looking to get over on you or blame something on you. Don't be the victim of scam artists.

Insurance? Don't bother at first! The insurance will cost you more than the value of any computer parts you might screw up. I'm also in NY state. Yes $500 a year is about right for SBI. If you're experienced you won't mess anything up anyway too bad. The only time you might need it is for commercial customers. By then you've probably grown and you can get it when you get your first big on-site job. Most commercial customers will request it. For the big commercial customers, they will wan't you to be covered in the million$! I kid you not.

Take yer time....good luck.

jayjay22

Sorry, been busy for some time getting everything all set to start the business. Krehator... I understand what you are saying about the insurance, but I am picking it up anyway just to ease my mind. I was able to find a 1 year policy with $1million of coverage for $327.03. They only want $85.00 down and then 3 quarterly payments for the remainder. If anyone is wondering, this policy is from state farm. Goes to show that it pays to shop around. Everyone else wanted about $510 minimum for the same policy. You do make many good points krehator, which I appreciate and will possibly adopt some of them as my own if it is ok with you? I especially like the idea of coming up with a set of good freeware utils and apps to install for them with their permission. I am around the albany/saratoga area and that is where I will be doing most repairs. I'll be putting an ad in the local papers for my business as well as signs on my car and having shirts printed up with my company logo on front and back. Thanks again to everyone for your suggestions, I will take them all into consideration. I look forward to being an active member of this forum for a long time.

Krehator

$327, you got a deal!

Yeah, I have a CD with some of the most popular freeware. I coded a nice menu system to autorun and install the apps. If you want to be even slicker, get some business size CD's and you can put it on that with your number and info.

Of course you have to look out for spyware in some of it though. I especially like Avast Home Edition and Lavasoft AdAware. Avast is probably the best anti-virus I've used and has really kept many of my customers from getting re-infected. As you've probably learned already 75% of non-biz repairs ends up being malware related. I had a system here the other day that was so infected it wouldn't even let XP boot all the way. I couldn't even fix the things from a PE boot. Have you tried PE yet? It's a life saver many times.

Another thing I do is make a driver CD. Sooooo many people lose the original discs. I put all the drivers on a CD and give it to them. I also zip them all up under CUSTOMER#.ZIP files and store it on their system somewhere hidden. Along with a copy for me just in case I need them again.

You're welcome to any ideas I put up. What do I look like Micro$oft?

I'm in the Buffalo area. Cool we don't step on each other.

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Deja-vue

/subscribe/

lol!

I comment later, this is very interesting.

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Microsoft Certified System Administrator

Deja-vue

ok, got some time now.

I was just wondering how you Guys can survive on Flat-rates like $50.00 or less.
Or are you just kids trying to make a couple of bucks after School?
(no offense please)

Let me tell you how much i charge in my Area (Long Beach, California)

Single Home-User $45.00/hour (i try to avoid them, but hey...)

Small Business, home or Office based, 3 or more, up to 7 computers $85.00/hour

Larger Business, starting at 13 + computers, Servers, Routers, Networks, VPN's, Active Directory and the like $125.00/hour.

I charge for a complete Win2000/XP re-install about $140.00, then $125.00 for Virus-removal (depends on the severity) and about $100.00 for Spyware-removal.

Mind you i do this full Time, i pay Taxes, Insurance, and more expenses. My Cell-phone bill alone is about $180.00 per month and i use it for Business only.
My Gasoline bill is $220.00 a month and my Car makes good Gas-mileage.

$40.00 for on-site repairs? I won't even show up.
For a small Business i charge $85.00/hr minimum, if i fix the problem in the first 5 minutes or if it takes me a bit longer.
It will cost the Business more ( a lot more) if they cannot continue using their systems, and they are willing to pay for it.
Don't get me wrong, i charge nothing on the first visit at a new customer.I give them a good idea about their Network and tell them how things can be improved. Just yesterday i visited a Construction-company and talked to them about 45 minutes. Got me a $3900.00 Job and monthly support.
(the average small Business spends about $300.00 to $7000.00 with me in their first year)
After that, i hardly see them again because my Systems are a bit more expensive than others, but they run 24/7 without glitches.

Some other Charges, to give you an idea:

File-recovery off crashed or formatted Hard drive: $65.00/gigabyte
Password-reset (hey, i forgot the Admin-password!) $125.00
Cable-runs, Cat 5e, behind walls, etc $125.00/drop

and so on....
Not to put anyone down here, but it is a tough competition around here in CA and i just wanted to get you guys some in-sight on what we charge around LA. I am not really the most expensive out here and i haven't raised my Rates in 3 years.
Talk to you guys/gals some more later.

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Microsoft Certified System Administrator

Chevy

Here's my rates (Louisiana):

-Basic Maintenance - $65/hour
-Spyware/Virus Cleanup - $119.95
-Hardware installation - Part+$32.50 (or basic maintenance rate if they supply the part)
-Data Recovery - Up front $65 (determines what may be recovered). If they go ahead, it is applied to the total bill ($125 first gig scanned, $50 each additional gig scanned) NO GUARANTEES
-Service Call - $85/hour, one hour minimum, doo-to-door (clock starts when I leave my office, ends when I leave your location)
-Network installs/repairs/new drops/etc are case by case

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“My philosophy, like color television, is all there in black and white”
-M. Python

whodat

so chevy, how much would this "freebe be worth" at my neighbors. situation:
dell dimension 2250 or some thing
under-warrantee dell sends tech, or they bring it, kind of evasive, he installs a new hard drive
tech runs the xp disk and bolts - dell says warrantee is now over..60 minutes on the dell support proved fruitless with my neighbor, says dell hung up on them..
people use it for a day without any antivirus and kablam, no internet, video resolution 16 bits, pop ups, ect.

i go over, the good guy that i am..
wow, what a mess...conflicts, no drivers were installed,I finally got the video useable. windows isnt not seeing the wireless ethernet, grrrr.
finally got that working after removing items.. blah blah blah
now there isnt any virus or spyware protection on this beast..tick tock..dinners getting cold
put on adaware and ewido ..ran housecall. did a hyjack-0---- over 100 viruses and over 100 spyware infections

3 hours later -"this computer is clean"...[ poltergiest ]--"thanks..bye"

GRRRRR

Chevy

At their house - $85/hr plus tax ... $277.95

At my shop - $119.95 (spyware cleanup) ... $65 (rework Dell tech's mess) ... plus tax ... $201.60

OR

I charge $65 ... call Dell myself (with the customer at my shop) and bad mouth them into sending the tech back out to do the job right ... I have had some success in doing this ...

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“My philosophy, like color television, is all there in black and white”
-M. Python

v-six

On insurance: (a supplement to the previous comments about why it is important):
A friend of mine that has his own repair business (the friend that taught me alot of what I know about building and repairs) was working on a laptop once. He did everything exactly by the book, and is always careful about static. When the repair was done, he went to turn it back on, and the laptop was fried. It's not that he's incompetent or a bad techie.... its just that **** happens. Anyway, he has insurance and his butt was covered. If you will be doing alot of repairs, I suggest you don't touch anything without insurance.

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Brewing up something good at vervesix...

crazijoe

I have to chime in on this.
I normally do more with businesses and very little with home users.

Business evaluation and consultation $125hr
Business implementing and trouble shooting (the actual work) $85hr
The problem I run into more is businesses asking what they should do or what their problem is then have one of their so called 'IT guys' fix it. Thus the reason for the difference in price. If they have me do the actual work, I will knock the eval and consulting fee down to $100hr.

Home consumers evaluation and trouble shooting (figuring out what the problem is) $75hr. If I do the work, I will knock it down to $50hr
Virus, spyware, malware, etc. removal depends on the situation (i.e. the owners machine, how bad it is infected, etc.) There are to many different systems and to many different varibles. The speed of the machine, how much junk is on there all contribute to this cost.
A lot of the work with home consumers I would assess on a per work order basis because of the different varibles that can come into play.
Service calls for home consumers. $75hr.

1hr min for all work.

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