building gaming pc questions

[n0thing]

ive decided to build a new gaming PC because my current one is too old. i looked around at newegg and other sites to decide what to get, but i still have some questions.
Oh, i don't want to spend thousands of dollars on this, so im aiming for midrange parts.

1)is the intel core 2 duo E6300 really a lot better than a Pentium D 925(Presler)?
2)How do the AMD dual core's compare with the intels?
3)Will a Geforce 6 play most/all of the latest/upcoming games, and if so, how long do you think it will be before it becomes obsolete?
4)What's the ATI equivalent of a GeForce 7600?
5)Is a PCI-e video card a lot better than the AGP ones?

I'm only upgrading my RAM, CPU, video card, and possible my case.
My HD, CD/DVD drive, and everything else is good enough for now.

[pharoah]

first without doubt intels core2 architecture are the best cpu's made right now.video card you kinda list 2 first you say geforce 6 series,then you mention whats an ati equivalent of a 7600.the 7600gt is a nice card an ati counterpart would be the x1650 series.if you wait a bit there are supposed to be some cheaper dx10 nvidia cards soon.there 8600 soon to be released will come in 2 flavors a gt,and an ultra.from early reports they will be less than 200$US,but who knows all that early info is speculation at best.

[Gamah(kikboxes)]

you want to get a dual core processor, but only a 6-series gpu?

get a 7800 at least.

otherwise that'll be holding you back in every game.

also, your new processor, is it the same socket as your mobo? and do you have enouth wattage on your psu?

[Indoril Nerevar]

One note: you will almost certainly need to upgrade your power supply, with all those upgrades. What power supply are you using at the moment? With the components you've listed, you'll need a 550W at least, from a quality brand such as FSP, OCZ, Seasonic, Silverstone or Antec. Have a read of the "Power Supply Info" link in my signature. It's a long thread, but contains extremely important and interesting info.

The power supply is the backbone of the system, so make sure you get a good one, or you could end up damaging other components.

[Gamah(kikboxes)]

I'm quite a fan of this psu, i use it in all my systems, it's available in different colors too.

the biggest plus is it comes with sleeving on all the cables.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817148008

[Indoril Nerevar]

I recommend you do not go for the PSU Gamah has linked to, for several reasons. It is a low-quality brand, and while the sleeving and different colours are nice, the efficiency of the unit is only 70%. Units from the brands I listed above have effeciencies of 80% - 87%. Spending a little extra money on a high quality unit now will save you money later on. Low quality units use more electricity, due to their inefficiency. They also have a higher chance of damaging your components - which will not be covered by warranty.

Read that PSU thread in my signature, as it explains all this in detail. Do not be tempted by a cheap PSU.

[Gamah(kikboxes)]

Originally Posted by Indoril Nerevar

I recommend you do not go for the PSU Gamah has linked to, for several reasons. It is a low-quality brand, and while the sleeving and different colours are nice, the efficiency of the unit is only 70%. Units from the brands I listed above have effeciencies of 80% - 87%. Spending a little extra money on a high quality unit now will save you money later on. Low quality units use more electricity, due to their inefficiency. They also have a higher chance of damaging your components - which will not be covered by warranty.

Read that PSU thread in my signature, as it explains all this in detail. Do not be tempted by a cheap PSU.

no... the effiency of the one i listed is GREATER than 70% also, i'm running an athlon 64 x2 4600+ dual 7600GS's and G.SKILL memory, with 2 SATA DVD burners and 2 SATA hdd'sm, 3 led fans, and 2 cathoes...and yet my psu is cold to the touch...

i've got 3 of these total in my house never had a problem.

[Indoril Nerevar]

"Greater than 70%" is still "LESS THAN 80%". Any unit with an efficiency in the 70's is not a high quality unit.

Gamah, I highly recommend you have a read of the Power Supply thread yourself, as I think you will learn some very interesting things.

Using a low quality unit does not mean that within two minutes it will die. The unit may take up to a year to die, but in the meantime it could be damaging your components, and it could also take out some of your components when it does finally die.

Before you make any further comment on this, please read that thread in full. You will be surprised what you learn.

[Tumbleweed36]

Hi nOthing,

Actually, you need to listen to the advice that Indoril Nerevar has given you about power supplies. The APEVIA power supply is a very low quality unit and if you purchase that unit, you will be doing this again in a very short time. You just don't buy a good power supply of that wattage for $44.00, after a rebate.

Please read the power supplyl information under my signature and then make up your own mind about efficiency, Active PFC, and other related topics. In fact, the lower the efficiency, the higher your electric bill to run the power supply. I have seen studies that say over a three year period, the cost of extra electricity from a low efficiency supply can cost upwards of $210 bucks extra for electricity. When you do read that information, you will know for yourself, that the Apevia is not a quality supply.

That is the best advice I can give you so you will be pleased with your decision.

[Tumbleweed36]

Hi,

I found an article from PC Power and Cooling (The best Power Supply Company in the World), that might help you with the efficiency:


PC Power and Cooling

DOES A POWER SUPPLY UPGRADE MEAN A HIGHER ELECTRIC BILL?
This is the biggest myth of all. First, it's important to understand that a power supply only delivers the power that's needed by the system, nothing more. If your PC currently has a 400W supply and the system needs 350W, it will still need and use only 350W - if the only change is upgrading to a 500W power supply (the upgrade makes sense since there are many advantages to running a power supply at a lower percentage of its rated capacity). Whether the electric bill goes up or down is solely determined by the efficiency of the new power supply. Greater efficiency means a lower electric bill because more of the AC power is converted into DC for the computer, rather than wasted as heat. The savings can really add up over time. For example, when the money saved in electricity over the course of its 3-year warranty is taken into account, the purchase price of the efficient Silencer 750 is less than $0.00. Here's the math:

Model Efficiency @ 550W Input Power @ 550W
Silencer 750 83% 662W
Antec True Power 550 73.8% 745W

For the same output power, the Silencer 750 uses 83W less input power.

3-year savings = .083KW x $0.10/KWH x 24 x 365 x 3 = $218.12

[pharoah]

apevia formerly known as aspire never get those.those power supplies have been known to be pc killers,as well as fire hazards.

[Fr4665]

1)is the intel core 2 duo E6300 really a lot better than a Pentium D 925(Presler)?
yes ull notice a big big difference !
2)How do the AMD dual core's compare with the intels?
they are up to par but cant keep up all the time
the x2 4200 and 4600 is similar to the e4300 and e6300
3)Will a Geforce 6 play most/all of the latest/upcoming games, and if so, how long do you think it will be before it becomes obsolete?
yes itl play anything out there, it becomes obsolete asoon as you want to play directx 10 games !
4)What's the ATI equivalent of a GeForce 7600?
x1650xt or pro
5)Is a PCI-e video card a lot better than the AGP ones?
performance wise not noticable, cheaper yes ! and pci-e is the future agp is the past !

psu wise follow the previous posters instructions !

[Gamah(kikboxes)]

read your PSU fourm...

i've had this specific psu with over 3 systems in a course of 2.5 years...

i'm currently pulling about 430W at idle and near 520 under load, and i've never had it go above 30C

my componets always seem to run cooler right now my temps are:

cpu 27C
"system" (i plugged my temp thingy for psu into that) 23C

gpu1 46C

gpu2 54C (i'm running UT04 on my sec monitor)

[n0thing]

ok, thanks for all the help.
so, if i get a dual core, ill need a lot better of a GPU than the Geforce 6?

when do you think DX10 games will start hitting the market? How many cards have DX10 support right now? Is it only the Geforce 8800?

I know I'll have to get a new PSU of some sort. I only need to consider high-end cooling stuff if I overclock, right? If I'm running at normal speeds, I'll just need a CPU fan and a system fan, right??

[Tumbleweed36]

Originally Posted by Gamah(kikboxes)

read your PSU fourm...

i've had this specific psu with over 3 systems in a course of 2.5 years...

i'm currently pulling about 430W at idle and near 520 under load, and i've never had it go above 30C

my componets always seem to run cooler right now my temps are:

cpu 27C
"system" (i plugged my temp thingy for psu into that) 23C

gpu1 46C

gpu2 54C (i'm running UT04 on my sec monitor)

Hi,

I am so glad that you are having good success with this power supply that you have recommended. However, a great number of people don't have this as a success story, but a story of difficulties seems to prevail.

There is no need for me personally to "read your PSU fourm" as you requested, because I am the author of that document (with memebers of my power supply team) and know it very well. Even this week, we are updating it to keep abreast of the lastest technology and best power supplies on the market.

What we recommend is power supplies is only those that have a very high probability of working flawlessly with a particular unit for a long period of time in an efficient manner. We do however realize there are some power supplies out there that will work at times for a particular application, but the overall success rate of those performing to the standards we expect on the forum is quite low.

Again, cheers for your success, however we must not in good conscience recommend supplies that do not have a consistent rate of success. That is why we do not recommend the supply that you feel is the best for that application. I do hope yours runs for a long time and you don't have difficulties with it.

[gamerman0203]

Originally Posted by Gamah(kikboxes)

i'm currently pulling about 430W at idle and near 520 under load, and i've never had it go above 30C

What's your rig?! I've only seen benchmarks of the new DX10 cards in SLI and top of the line cpu pulling that much power! Under load, you say you're pulling the full capability of that power supply... Even with a quality psu, that will shorten the lifespan greatly! I'm not attacking, I'm just saying that you might want to consider a more powerful psu.

[Fr4665]

Originally Posted by n0thing

ok, thanks for all the help.
so, if i get a dual core, ill need a lot better of a GPU than the Geforce 6?

when do you think DX10 games will start hitting the market? How many cards have DX10 support right now? Is it only the Geforce 8800?

I know I'll have to get a new PSU of some sort. I only need to consider high-end cooling stuff if I overclock, right? If I'm running at normal speeds, I'll just need a CPU fan and a system fan, right??

no a geforce 6 will be fine with a dual core gpu. i would suggest a 6600GT also look at the x1650xt and 7600GT's as they are a better bang for the buck.

DX10 games will start hitting the market Q2 2007. Cooling wise, yes only need the high end stuff if you over clock or have issues concerning space in the case. all u need is the CPU fan and a case fan (or 2 i recommend 2 ... one in the front pulling air in the other in the rear sucking air out)

[Gamah(kikboxes)]

Originally Posted by Fr4665

no a geforce 6 will be fine with a dual core gpu. i would suggest a 6600GT also look at the x1650xt and 7600GT's as they are a better bang for the buck.

DX10 games will start hitting the market Q2 2007. Cooling wise, yes only need the high end stuff if you over clock or have issues concerning space in the case. all u need is the CPU fan and a case fan (or 2 i recommend 2 ... one in the front pulling air in the other in the rear sucking air out)

@ gamerman

i'm running a 4600+ x2

dual 7600GS's (512 versions)

1gb ram

2x SATA drives 160GB

2x SATA dvd burners

and a lot of lights....


edit:

@FR i've got overvoltages for my core overclocks...

none of my clocks are really nessisary(i get 70+ fps max settings on bf2142 without them), but i like the bigger numbers

and extra cooling is only needed if you overvolt, if you change a multiplier or maybe a bus number by only a few, heat will not be an issue, it's the extra voltage that creates heat.

and extra voltage is required if you go with a bigger OC.

[ebackhus]

The Aspire 550w I had in my PC went out recently. Up until then it had worked great but I likely pushed it too hard.

[n0thing]

well, this is a lot on information to consider.
will 1gig of RAM be enough for games that are on the market today?

also, whats all of this stuff about SATA drives and how much better/faster is it than regulare IDE