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Trying to recover data from RAID HDD on dead Alienware laptop

5K views 25 replies 8 participants last post by  BIGBEARJEDI 
#1 ·
Hi all,

I'm really hoping someone can help as I'm getting desperate. I have an Alienware M17x that one day suddenly died (just outside of warranty) with no display coming on, but was booting. I diagnosed it myself to be either the screen itself, the motherboard or a video card issue. I pretty much ruled out the video card issue as I could use it on an external monitor by plugging it into my TV, but still wasn't getting anywhere, so I took it into a PC repair shop.

They at first thought it would be the display, so they ordered in a new one from China, and two months later have fitted it, only to find it still doesn't come on, so they've put it down to a motherboard issue, and saying they can't fix it. Failing this, I've asked them to retrieve my data off it so I can at least recover all of my work from there, but they have told me Alienware uses 'RAID' so they cannot retrieve the data like they would with any other laptop, and may need to send it off to a specialist company to retrieve it for me, which may end up being quite costly.

Does anyone know of a workaround to this at all? One thing I'm not sure about is the actual problem still, as if if I was able to get it to work on an external monitor, is it really the motherboard? Is there anyway of connecting it via a USB or ethernet cable to a desktop or a laptop to be able to view it as an external HDD or the like?

Thank you in advance!
 
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#2 ·
I'd suspect the video cable from the motherboard to the screen, constant flexing and stretching can break the fine wires.
The Motherboard and graphics chip can basically be ruled out if it works fine with an external monitor, and as the screen has been replaced that can be ruled out too.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the reply!

The only issue is that when I was on the alienware support page, they said I could test this by hitting Function and a key I can't remember now to switch between using the internal display and putting it on an external display - so I did that, switching it to the internal display, and then I couldn't switch it back. I should have done it at the time, but it went over my head then just how long and arduous this would be.

Also, if it is indeed the cables that are damaged, do you think a repair centre will be able to repair that easily enough?
 
#4 ·
If you get a display with a external monitor, after replacing the LCD, the chances are it is the inverter board

In order to have a RAID setup, the laptop needs to have more than one hard drive. Unless someone has enabled the dynamic disk feature in windows.

You can copy your data from the drive, just use a external monitor to navigate to your data. Then copy it to a external drive, USB drive, or CD /DVD's
 
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#7 ·
Apparently mine is 2x500GB harddrive, making a 1tb partition is what they have told me, and they can't retrieve the data because of the RAID array.

If I try and use FN F4 and it does not switch, but it did in the past, is there another way I could connect to another computer as an external disk with an ethernet cable or anything like that?
 
#9 ·
Correct, and I did that at the time, but it only switched it from the external monitor to the internal, and when I tried it again, it wouldn't display anything on either monitor.

The PC repair shop who currently has it has suggested I pass it onto a data recovery specialist, and they have quoted in the thousands of dollars, so I'm just wondering if it's worth taking it somewhere else, or getting them to try and repair the inverter or video cable as you say, otherwise it will be thousands of dollars (that I don't really have anyway) on something that is ultimately not needed.

Thanks a lot for your advice here guys.
 
#10 ·
The Repair Shop has clarified that it is the video chips on the motherboard itself, but I don't understand how it would have shown on the external monitor when I first did this? Is that something that would degenerate over time or quite quickly?

In terms of timeline, I was playing a non-intensive video game, computer crashed and when I booted it up, the screen was there but very distorted. I managed to log in eventually, screen was blank by that stage, then plugged it in via HDMI into my TV and it displayed there and ran Skyrim on Ultra High quality just fine, and then from there, pressed the FN F4 as Alienware recommended to test it, and then I couldn't get it back onto the external display?

And for them to now say its the chips on the motherboard causing it to not display at all? Is that something that would happen so quickly and so randomly? I feel like it may just be the display and they are jumping to conclusions or what have you, what do you guys think?
 
#11 ·
Some advice for you to consider. Panther is right about the video diagnosis. If the computer boots windows to an external monitor the Motherboard CPU/GPU channels are all working. If the Motherboard was faulty, this would not occur.

Recommendation #1: Find another computer guy!! :nonono:


Next, Alienware support which is now handled by Dell, told you something I that indicates whatever tech you spoke with knew nothing about RAID!! :facepalm: Very unusual. All you have to do is remove 1 of the 2 hard drives from the laptop, which AUTOMATICALLY breaks the RAID configuration, and you can then recover your date from whichever drive you physically remove from the laptop. Drive #1 or Drive #2, it doesn't matter which. You can take the drive and insert into an inexpensive USB-to-SATA drive adapter (we call this a "drive caddy" in the biz) which you can buy here for under $20 U.S.: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812232002

Once the Drive you wish to recover is placed in the drive caddy; find or borrow another working Windows PC or laptop with a usb port (if the computer you try to use doesn't have a usb port it was made prior to 1998 and is not usable for this task). Once Windows detects the Drive you removed from your Alienware RAID setup, it should show up in the My Computer applet. If it does, proceed to download Recuva for free, the best Windows drive recovery program. Make sure that the computer you are using has a C: drive or another usb hard drive large enough to accomodate your 500GB of data if drive is full for copying/recovery of files. Run the Recuva and tell it where you want to copy your files and once the copying is done, your Alienware is all backed up! Simple right? :dance:


If Recuva doesn't find all your files or any of them, you'll then have to download Linux utilities which takes more skill to use, but is the next level of data recovery you can try yourself. We recommend TestDisk and GetDataBack here at TSF. If you have no luck with any of these programs, your hard drive is probably damaged, :cry: and you'll have to pull your 2nd physical hard drive out of the Alienware laptop and attempt the same Recovery steps; (Windows/Recuva, then Linux TestDisk/GetDataBack). If none of these work on the 2nd drive; it could be both hard drives are faulty, :frown: or the SATA controller on the Motherboard is faulty-:nonono:-unlikely if that Alienware boots to Windows on an external monitor. :rolleyes:


Lastly, Professional Data Recovery here in the U.S. starts at $250 and can go up to thousands, but very rarely on a Consumer computer or laptop. This means that the computer guy you are dealing with is scamming you! :angry: If he sends it out for you, and he's charging you at least $2,000 (hence "thousands of dollars", plural). He is going to make $1,750 profit on a $250 job! Outrageous! :angry::facepalm: Here in the U.S. we would catch him and rope him and force him to eat Tofu Steaks for 10 yrs. (at least here in California!). Sheesh! How does that guy even sleep at night??? :nonono::nono:


Shipping to U.S. from Australia is at least $100-$200 for a hard drive, but I would suggest you consider using one of our companies here if you must do this; you are still looking at $450-$600 tops, and they will return ship your data on dvd discs or an external usb drive to you for free I believe (I've not used them for International Customers before, so you'll have to verify their International Shipping Policy :wink:). There are only 2 reputable companies in the U.S. who do this, so if you get to this step, post back, and I will tell you who and where they are. :wink:

Recommendation #2: Find yourself another computer guy! Oddly, same as Recommendation #1!!

Keep us posted on your progress. Sorry you are getting such poor and unprofessional information. :frown::nonono::huh:


Best, :thumb:
BIGBEARJEDI
 
#12 ·
Hi mate,

Thank you for your detailed reply!!

So, the latest at the moment is that I have now got my laptop back from the PC repair place that had it. They clearly didn't know that removing the drives would automatically break the RAID configuration as you said, as after he removed them and put them back in, he was able to access it and transfer all my data to an external HDD for me (Thank god! :thumb: )

Following this, he told me it's the 'VGA' chip on the Motherboard that is buggered, and that it is repairable but I didn't leave it with them as it's already been 2 months and it's no different from when I gave it to them.

So when I took it home, I booted the laptop (which booted fine) and then plugged into an external monitor via HDMI and it displayed on there fun, and was able to run everything ok. A little while later though it crashed and shut down, and starting beeping at me as though I was doing a BIOS check from booting, which the PC repair guy said is due to the chip in the motherboard.

So, just wanting to ask, as it could still technically be repairable apparently, do you think this is likely or possible to be repaired? if it is, I might take it somewhere else or get someone to come to my house considering I have all my data off there now?

Thanks everyone!
 
#13 ·
The VGA graphics port is soldered onto the Motherboard. So, to replace the VGA board, you must replace the whole motherboard.
Depending on how old the computer is, it can be replaced, but the cost of doing so may not be cost affective. You may be able to replace the whole computer for just a little bit more then the cost of replacing the motherboard, and the labor involved, plus the reinstalling of the OS, since it will be new hardware, and then restoring your backed up data. Sounds like you are already into it since you have replaced the LCD already. You may want to cut your losses and just get a new Laptop.
 
#15 ·
I agree with Fjandr' post. Or, as perhaps an slightly cheaper/easier alternative find out what Raid/disk controller is used on the laptop's Motherboard and find a similar motherboard to attach your drives to.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Pat: well, glad your computer guy was able to get your data recovered for you.

As far as the repair goes, as Spunk indicated it is generally not repairable. There are shops out there who "re-ball" or resolder new chips on Motherboards, but in almost all cases, these types of repairs do not work. SO THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS "NO"! :nono: As the correct equipment required is a wave-solder machine, which costs in excess of $600,000. Most repair shops would have to do thousands of repairs in a year on laptop motherboards just to get a return on their money. I've actually sent a motherboard or two into these places and they come back all scorched and burned, and they did not work. Cost can be from $150-$250 or more.

Since you didn't listen to me about your computer guy--I don't expect you to take this advice either. :facepalm: He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. He told you about a GPU chip repair, but did he ever tell you whether he succesfully sent out a motherboard for GPU repair and it worked for him or a Customer of his?? Why would he even recommend something like that?? Sheesh! :nonono:

Well, you do whatever you want, it's your money, but 99% of the Techs who repair computers for a living here on TSF do NOT recommend doing this, as they know what's involved and it's a very very low success percentage.

We'll stick with recommending something that works; replace the ENTIRE motherboard or purchase an identical laptop from the Internet so you can use your RAID drives setup. I think this is a waste of time, now that you paid to get your data recovered from that Alienware setup. WHAT DO YOU NEED THE RAID DRIVE SETUP FOR IN A LAPTOP ANYWAY?? WHY NOT JUST BUY AN EXTERNAL SETUP LIKE A NAS BOX?? SUCH AS HERE: Newegg.com - High-performance NAS. Ultimate reliability

Since you have your data off that laptop, you could buy any laptop and copy your data back over from the external hdd and you'd be good to go. :dance:

This is probably going to be more cost effective than spending $175-$350 or more on a Motherboard replacement, and if you take it to that same computer guy that didn't even know what RAID was, I seriously doubt he'll be able to replace/repair it anyway. Your money, your Call as I said. :nonono:

Best of luck to you,
BBJ
 
#20 · (Edited)
Just a note:

While it has a low success rate (usually because there are components other than the GPU damaged), a brand new, high quality benchtop wave solder machine can be had for about $6,000, not $600,000. That's for an industrial process machine, which isn't required to re-flow chips on a one-off basis. It's like the difference between a hand crimper and a semi-automated pneumatic crimper. They do the same thing, but they're designed for different workflows.

Alienware machines use RAID 0 because it reduces disk access time. They've mostly since moved to SSDs, though the higher-end models use SSD RAID 0 (for the same reason it's used on mechanical drives).
 
#22 ·
Just a note:

While it has a low success rate (usually because there are components other than the GPU damaged), a brand new, high quality benchtop wave solder machine can be had for about $6,000, not $600,000. That's for an industrial process machine, which isn't required to re-flow chips on a one-off basis. It's like the difference between a hand crimper and a semi-automated pneumatic crimper. They do the same thing, but they're designed for different workflows.
>>>Is that based on your personal experience buying one? Or what you've read. I actually went through an exhaustive procurement process last time I bought one of those in 1985--yes, that's a long time ago, and we did use the Industrial version to solder electronic components and circuitry for the Sidewinder guidance sections (air-to-air heat seeker missiles). There may be companies producing them at that cost ($6,000), but I sure haven't heard of them. And once again, have you personally sent out any laptop Motherboards to companies who are using these low-cost reflow machines? What kind of quality did they do on the repair? I don't think we should provide expectations of this working for our OP, so unless you've done this yourself and had one or more successfuly repaired Motherboards, I don't agree with your assessment of recommending this repair to the OP. Also, I've been responsible for over 400 laptops in one of my IT positions and have been through the mill with finding companies who could do this sort of thing. So, I am not just NOT recommending it cause I had a couple of bad experiences, I was in IT for over 25 yrs. and I've attempted these types of repairs as I said several times with no success. On all major brands of laptops--HP/Compaq, Dell, Toshiba, etc.<<<BBJ>>>

Alienware machines use RAID 0 because it reduces disk access time. They've mostly since moved to SSDs, though the higher-end models use SSD RAID 0 (for the same reason it's used on mechanical drives).
>>>This makes sense, but, whether or not it's required to have RAID on a laptop; certainly not. Having that option makes it a higher performance machine than without, either with mechanical drives or SSD combo. So, unless the OP has high-end Gaming graphics or is doing CAD on his laptop, I don't think it's necessary. OP has not told us what his main applications for use of the laptop, so we're only guessing until he reads this thready reply and tells us. My take is, if it costs an extra $500-$1,000 for a laptop with a built-in RAID option, is it really necessary for OP to purchase ONLY that type of laptop?? If he has one or more apps as I mentioned that make it necessary, he has to decide whether it's worth that kind of cash to buy it. If not, he could save a lot of money by buying a laptop with a single-drive configuration (mechanical or SSD).<<<BBJ>>>
 
#23 ·
I wasn't recommending the repair, as I specifically noted the repair rate is low. I know someone who re-flowed XBox GPUs for several years using just such a machine, and had a decent success rate for that application though. I believe they're Gold Wave machines, and that was the cost of about 3 years ago for one that's brand new through Jensen (which has a relatively high markup compared to some other suppliers).

As for RAID in laptops, I agree, but Alienware is a status symbol mostly. They're not built with monetary economy in mind.
 
#24 ·
@Fjandr: I understand what you're saying, I just didn't want the OP to misunderstand your comment about how expensive the equipment was and just about any Mom & Pop computer shop could afford one of these devices to make the repairs.:sad: I've had a few other TSF Mods argue this point, and according to them, they have found places that do an acceptable job of this, probably using your $6k one-off machine. I seriously doubt this--as I made an exhaustive study of doing this while in IT as I said. With 400 laptops to manage, we were looking for ANY low-cost alternative to Mobo replacement or out-of-warranty laptop replacement. I'm not telling the guy it CAN'T be done, I'm just advising him against it, as the success rate in my experience is 0% (not 1% or 5% or 10%)! If I came across angry sounding, sorry about that, I was really directing some of this hostility I have about this topic towards the OP's flaky Computer Guy that recommended this process, AND NOT YOU. :blush:
I now re-read the thread and realized you were just making a comment about my statement, NOT recommending that the OP get this type of repair. As you saw from the thread, the OP did go back to same guy, even after I told him 3 times to change Computer Guys. He did however, decide not to let the guy send out his Mobo for his recommended VGA chip re-ball repair!! :grin: Especially after he got it back from the guy after 2 months and it crashed! So, maybe he learned something from us after all. :facepalm: No hard feelings? :flowers:

@Pat: you can see there is some hot discussion over what your Computer Guy recommended as I predicted, but it's friendly discussion and was intended to help you realize this your Computer Guy's recommended Mobo repair was NOT a good idea. Several of us told you this, so I didn't want Fjandr's comment to be misconstrued as a recommendation to attempt this type of repair. Simple misunderstanding. :blush: I'm glad you decided not to continue using this flaky Computer Guy any more. :wink: We haven't heard back from you, so I'm hoping you respond to my question about why you have to have RAID setup on your laptop in the first place. Several of us have suggested you go with a new laptop with a Non-RAID setup. This will save you lots of money and Fjandr's comment about the Alienware being a status symbol is true enough--unless you come back to tell us it's a viable application requirement requiring RAID--you are spending lot's of money to get a laptop with a Logo for twice the money that is necessary to do the job. :nono: If we don't hear back from you, we'll just assume you solved your problem by replacing the laptop. If you do read this, we would appreciate hearing your final solution to the problem to share with our other users!

Best,
BBJ
 
#25 ·
Completely understand. I rarely take things personally, and didn't see your comments as attacks anyway. :smile:

Reflow tech has come a long way in the last 30 years. Unfortunately, without a lot of attending diagnostic tech, replacing a GPU is really hit-or-miss even if the repair is 100% technically successful. That's more than likely the main reason why the actual repair rate is so low. If you've burnt a GPU, you've almost certainly burnt other components (many of which won't show outward signs of failure).

Hopefully the OP has been able to replace his equipment and get his data sorted back to where it belongs.
 
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