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Overheating?

2K views 23 replies 8 participants last post by  Bartender 
#1 ·
My computer has been overheating a lot lately (at least I think It's overheating)

It overheats on some simple games such as Fire Emblem (GBA EMU game)
Web Based flash games
Ultima Online
and Morrowind

I'm pretty sure it is over heating because I opened the case and had a house fan next to it on high and I have no problems but it leaves me cold.

I currently have 2 case fans and a CPU fan in my computer.

Case Fan 1 = 4800 RPM
Case Fan 2 = 3200 RPM

CPU Fan = ???? RPM
 
#2 ·
There is a program called Speedfan and it will monitor the temperature sensors that are present on the vast majority of motherboards. Download and install it, run a game for a little bit, then close the game and see what your temps are operating at.

There are usually some fairly cheap fixes to a computer overheating. You can buy a can of compressed air for like $5(US), or you could purchase a new heatsink fan/thermal compound for around $30-40(US).

Another valid (and by far the cheapest) solution, is to simply leave off the side of your case...you may not even need a desktop fan blowing into the side...simply the open side helps significantly (this is how my comp runs :1angel:)
 
#6 ·
Robert Crow said:
One case fan (3200 RPM) (might not be case fan) is on the in the PSU and is blowing in towards mobo. Other is rear (4800 RPM) and blowing in towards mobo.

Turn that rear fan around and use it to pull warm air out of that case/blow it out the back of the case and you will see a difference even there.

I also recommend that you get a fan and put it in front of the case to pull in cool air.

PSU = it says Ultra Edition Power 480W

The power supply is probably not the best one you could have, so may need to look at that issue after you take care of the fan issue and see what happens after you do that.

CPU Fan I'm not really sure on the specifications of this fan.
 
#7 ·
Both of the fans at the back of the PC are blowing in??
That's weird.

The PSU and the CPU are the two primary heat sources in typical PC's. It makes sense to get the heat from those two devices out of the case ASAP. Typically, the PSU is mounted high in the case where warm air stagnates. The PSU will have one or two fans that are set up so that they pull warm air from the inside of the case across the PSU components, then get that air out of the case.

The same basic philosophy holds for the rear case fan, the one mounted to the back of the case. Some manufacturers get double-duty out of the rear case fan by designing a duct that fits tightly over a passive CPU heat sink. That way one fan cools the CPU and moves the heat out of the case. I've seen Dell do this a lot.

The rear case fan(s) create negative pressure inside the case, relieved by fresh air that typically comes in thru the lower sections of the front bezel. The goal here is to move some fresh air across your HDD's, then across the heat-producing components on your mobo.

What you describe is backwards. Does this PC have a questionable history? Could some previous owner have done some misguided case modding? Typically you can find two tiny arrows molded into the fan frame, showing direction of air travel and fan rotation. I'm curious as to whether the wiring's been swapped around, or maybe the fan leads are jammed onto their plugs backwards? Thing is, it'd be fairly easy to reverse the rear case fan direction, but the PSU fan is proby wired inside the PSU. The act of reversing PSU air flow would have been premeditated rather than an oversight. Is it possible this PSU was scrounged out of another system? Some old (1998-99) ATX PSU's blew down into the case, but I haven't seen any like that in a while.

At any rate, welcome to the world of case cooling. It can be fun (even addicting) to tweak with cooling and air flow, then you might get hooked on quieting your PC down with better fans, improved CPU heatsink, high efficiency/quality PSU...
:winkgrin:
 
#10 ·
Uh... Hello ?

I think before embarking on a wild and adventurous career of case modding and delving into state of the art heat reduction techniques, a simple read of the operating CPU temperature should be done in order to verify that in fact the temps are too high.

Further, if the CPU temps are critically high, there may be a reason for it besides inadequate fannage & ventilation. Such as a piece of one of those crappy double-sticky foam insulative tape heat "conductive" tape, being pawned off on unsuspecting computer Users that never took high school physics and so are unaware that foam is a heat insulator and not a conductor.

As the material degrads, the heat exchage gets increasingly worse. I've peeled off heat sinks from older CPU's only to find a sticky brown dust where springy and highly-insulative foam used to be.

Arctic Silver is a must have, IMO and can drop your CPU temp dramatically.
 
#11 ·
wallacehampton said:
I think before embarking on a wild and adventurous career of case modding

Where the heck did that come from, case modding???? Changing the direction of a fan is a simple loosen 4 screws, turn the fan around and tighten it back up. Not one time was case modding mentioned to the best of what I can read.

My friend, any tech on this forum worth his salt will tell you that the fan in the back of a computer, MUST be pulling warm air out of the case and blowing it out the back. If you think that changing the direction of a fan in your case is case modding, then your description of case modding is not accurate nor accepted in any tech circles that I am aware of. The simple fact is that the case fan is blowing the wrong direction.

It is quite possible that the thermal solution between the heatsink and fan might need to be looked at (and Artic Silver is the best), but the case ventilation needs to be addressed as a first priority IMHO.
 
#12 · (Edited)
It came from here...

At any rate, welcome to the world of case cooling.
Sorry, meant no offense. Misremembered what I misread and got a little carried away.

Completely agree with the "one fan in and one fan out" paradigm and never intended to challenge it. I just think that having a definate CPU temp would be a good idea, and the first thing that should be considered.

Primarily because if the heat problem (if there is one for sure, we really don't know yet, all we know for sure is that there is a FAN problem), and it is critical, rearranging the fans won't solve the problem of no heat conducting compound or a CPU fan that isn't working at all. (Remember he didn't know about the third fan. Could that be the CPU fan not spinning at all ? This inquiring mind wants to know...)
 
#13 ·
Hi, wallace -
No offense taken. Your comments were entirely appropriate insofar as getting the discussion back on track. The OP shouldn't just get the fans going in the right direction. Opening up the CPU/heatsink interface, cleaning out the old thermal pad, and replacing with good paste just as important.

Robert, lots of cases don't have a fan in front. The negative pressure created by rear fans provides all the motivation typically needed. Certain types of PC enthusiasts :winkgrin: will add a fan in front, and your case probably has some sort of receptacle for one already molded into the bezel or stamped into the metal case. Unless your PC is stuffed with HDD's and other heat-generating components it's probly not necessary.
 
#14 ·
wallacehampton said:
Primarily because if the heat problem (if there is one for sure, we really don't know yet, all we know for sure is that there is a FAN problem), and it is critical, rearranging the fans won't solve the problem of no heat conducting compound or a CPU fan that isn't working at all. (Remember he didn't know about the third fan. Could that be the CPU fan not spinning at all ? This inquiring mind wants to know...)


Yea the CPU fan IS MOVING I've seen it moving....
 
#15 ·
So, Robert -
Where we at on this?
The simplest thing to do would be to get that rear case fan blowing out. I can't say that every fan is built this way, but I've looked at a few dozen and they all blow towards the the four little plastic arms that suspend the motor hub. Although it'd be nice to verify by finding the little arrows molded into the frame, you can generally tell at a glance if the fan is spinning the intended direction by determining if the air is moving from the open side of the fan towards the side that suspends the motor hub. That would be the side with the decal. If the fan is attached backwards, turning it around should be easy.
I can tell you from my own experience with a brand new 120mm fan, don't try to handle the fan while it's running and bonk it up against something and break off a blade :mad:

The second hardest thing to do would be reversing the PSU fan. Remember I mentioned old ATX PSU's that blow in? I had one of those. I opened up the PSU, removed the fan screws, and flipped it over. Simple fix. The PSU should be allowed to set overnite unplugged from the wall before you open it up because it has some fat capacitors inside that can give you a nasty shock. I've heard some say that you can discharge them by unplugging the PSU from wall and holding the PC's power button down for a few seconds but I'm not sure that's accurate.

The third hardest, but quite possibly most valuable in terms of your own learning experience and your CPU's happiness, would be to get some good quality thermal paste and tune up that interface between the CPU and the heatsink. Most PC owners will never go there, but it's not rocket science. Lots of pictures and diagrams on the web. Some heatsinks come off really easy, others are a cast-iron SOB. I hate the OEM Pentium 4 heatsinks with those plastic half-twist screwlock thingies. It would be great if you can borrow a friend who's got any experience with this to take a look inside. And you only need a tiny dab of paste so if he's got some Arctic Silver you could borrow...
 
#16 ·
Bartender said:
So, Robert -
Where we at on this?
The simplest thing to do would be to get that rear case fan blowing out. I can't say that every fan is built this way, but I've looked at a few dozen and they all blow towards the the four little plastic arms that suspend the motor hub. Although it'd be nice to verify by finding the little arrows molded into the frame, you can generally tell at a glance if the fan is spinning the intended direction by determining if the air is moving from the open side of the fan towards the side that suspends the motor hub. That would be the side with the decal. If the fan is attached backwards, turning it around should be easy.
I can tell you from my own experience with a brand new 120mm fan, don't try to handle the fan while it's running and bonk it up against something and break off a blade :mad:

This suggestion needs to be done ASAP, then check your temps with this program:
SensorView Pro (Free to try for like 21 days – Is excellent)

http://www.stvsoft.com/download.php?id=122



The second hardest thing to do would be reversing the PSU fan. Remember I mentioned old ATX PSU's that blow in? I had one of those. I opened up the PSU, removed the fan screws, and flipped it over. Simple fix. The PSU should be allowed to set overnite unplugged from the wall before you open it up because it has some fat capacitors inside that can give you a nasty shock. I've heard some say that you can discharge them by unplugging the PSU from wall and holding the PC's power button down for a few seconds but I'm not sure that's accurate.

I am not sure you should go there. This might just upset the apple cart and quite possibly lead to more heating. I do think you should consider adding a front fan if the above step does not solve some of your issues.


The third hardest, but quite possibly most valuable in terms of your own learning experience and your CPU's happiness, would be to get some good quality thermal paste and tune up that interface between the CPU and the heatsink. Most PC owners will never go there, but it's not rocket science. Lots of pictures and diagrams on the web. Some heatsinks come off really easy, others are a cast-iron SOB. I hate the OEM Pentium 4 heatsinks with those plastic half-twist screwlock thingies. It would be great if you can borrow a friend who's got any experience with this to take a look inside. And you only need a tiny dab of paste so if he's got some Arctic Silver you could borrow..

This will probably make the most difference if your temp problems are not solved by the fan changes/addition. Just make sure before you change it that the heatsink fan is blowing down, because if someone put in on backwards (pulling air up is backwards), then that can cause about t10c difference. I also agree about the Artic Silver. That can make several degrees difference. Here is a link that explains how to do this:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

I am sure that both Bartender and I would either or both tell you that too much paste is as bad as not enough. Therefore, read the directions for applciation very carefully, and clean the old off as per the instructions before you reappy any.

.
 
#19 ·
Hi, Robert -
Have you googled around for some pointers on applying paste? Clean off the old stuff with some good quality 99% alcohol, not that cheesy half-water stuff. If you lift the CPU out of its socket take care not to handle the gold pins, and take note of which corner has the little triangular mark telling you how to put it back in.
I like to spread the paste with a credit card or some such tool, applying a layer that's thinner than a coat of paint. The paste is only there to help the two surfaces make good contact. You don't want to slobber so much on that it acts as an insulator, and you don't want excess squeezing out and getting into the CPU socket! Lots of folks just put a tiny dollop (about the size of a BB) in the center and let the pressure of the heatsink squish the paste around. If you're just not sure about how much to put on, try what seems right, bolt down the CPU, spin your PC up for a half hour or so, then turn it off and remove the heatsink. There should be a very thin, even layer left in the interface zone, with a small amount of excess squeezed out to the sides. Use that first effort to get a feel for whether you need a bit more or less.
The thermal paste should actually work better a few weeks after first applied. Not a big improvement, maybe a degree or two.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Hi, Robert!
It looks like someone bolted an undersized fan into the PSU fan hole? It's being held in there by one screw, is that right?
Are we looking at the side facing down into the PC's innards? If so, this fan wasn't doing much because the air that's being blown out can just loop right back to the intake side of the fan.

If you've got some discretionary income and plan to keep the PC for a while, do yourself a favor and buy a nice quiet case fan (of the correct size of course) to replace that little dinky one. Quiet ones are a few bucks more than the cheap noisy ones but worth it if you value some peace and quiet. EndPCNoise.com is a good source for quiet stuff, but there are lots of others too. Directron, Newegg, etc.

Quiet fans are often higher quality, but generally they also spin slower and move less air. Chances are you won't miss the extra air movement. When shopping, compare the dbA (noise) vs. cfm (air movement).

Oh, yeah, the other thing to look out for is the wiring. Most new fans will come with at least three wires. The third one (yellow) is for sensing fan speed. You only need the black & red to make it spin. Some have multiple plugs coming off the wiring loom so that you can hook it up a few different ways. PSU fans often only have 2 wires and those are soldered rather than connecting with a plug. Take a look at how the existing fan was scabbed in before you jerk it out. I'm guessing they may have just cut the wires and taped 'em together. If you end up just cutting wires a coupla pieces of heat-shrink tubing makes for a nicer job than electrical tape. You should be able to just go black-to-black and red-to-red, then face the decal side of the fan the way you want the air to blow. We decided to move air out of the PC, right? If this fan was facing down toward the motherboard and the PSU has another vent facing out the back of the PC, you'll want your new fan to suck air into the PSU, then the air will continue thru & out the back whether it has a fan there or not.
 
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