Trying Out Some New Web Editors--Advice Please

zineeditor · 05-10-2008, 12:15 PM

For years I used AOL Press. What can I say--I can't spend money on everything. Now I'm going to try out CoffeeCup, Trellian, and Sea Monkey. Any advice -- are they any good -- pros and cons? What about Amaya or Quanta Plus? And does anyone know anything about Paint.net? Is it anything like PaintShop Pro? I want something like that except without the price tag. Really some of the prices on software are outrageous!! It's enough to spend all that money on a computer, monitor, printer, etc. without all the added extras. What do they think--we all have an endless supply of money!!??

**jamiemac2005** · 05-11-2008, 04:20 AM

Okay, wysiwyg web editors tend to be a bit of a let down, if you want to design/develop websites freely with more control i strongly suggest you learn HTML/CSS/Javascript which you can find some extreemly recommended tutorials here:

www.w3schools.com/

Then your editor can be something like notepad++ (which i recommend you check out anyway i cant remember if it has a wysiwyg editor or not)...

I personally use Paint.net and GIMP when working on images, both are good alternatives to photoshop/paintshop but require a little bit of learning.

And the reason software prices are outrageous is because the software company has to account for the fact that a large percentage of the people using their software will have stolen it.

Anyway, Paint.net is great, i recommend checking out GIMP aswell (the GNU Image Manipulation Program) or GIMP shop (a more photoshop-like version of GIMP).

I trust mozilla so i thin seamonkey may be good, you'll have to check that out yourself... Google labs has something on the go called Google Page Creator which may be of interest, you'll find it here:

http://labs.google.com/

But if you really want to do it properly i suggest learning the languages and using them

Cheers,
Jamey

Shinzor · 05-11-2008, 02:46 PM

I couldnt agree more with JamieMac2005

**Jaxo** · 05-11-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiemac2005

Then your editor can be something like notepad++ (which i recommend you check out anyway i cant remember if it has a wysiwyg editor or not)...

Taken from notepad++ website.

-WYSIWYG
If you have a colour printer, print your source code (or whatever you want) in colour.

I have installed PAINT.net for many customers looking for a way to tweek images and what not for free. If they can use it so can you. A little bit of a learning curve, but not to bad. Other then that I agree with jamiemac2005 on learning code. It would be next to impossible to troubleshoot why the WYSISWG is not working the way you want if you don't know the code behind it. Although, we are always here ready to help to the best of our ability.

Good Luck

**jamiemac2005** · 05-12-2008, 06:56 AM

Haha, i remebered seeing something about wysiwyg on the notepad++ website, didn't know it was printing. Don't tend to use wysiwyg editors anyway so i wouldn't have known if there was one. Still definately recommend learning code, i've always used the analogy "If you give a man a fish he eats for a day but if you give a man the tools to fish he eats for life"... Imagine it as the wysiwig editors giving you the website you want but not the tools to re-create it without the editor. You learn the code and you have the tools to re-create them time and time again without relying on an expensive editor.

Oh and zineeditor, paint.net comes as is and configures itself (from what i remember) i love it apart from the fact that it didn't have a preferences dialogue, etc. i can't remember whether this is being implemented/has been implemented yet? Still a very nice editor.

Cheers,
Jamey

**Redcore** · 05-12-2008, 01:22 PM

The purist point of view regarding WYSIWYG tends to be unrealistic in a production environment. Most people around here seem to be part-timers. This means that they probably don't do this stuff for a living - otherwise, WYSIWYG editors are good for giving your project a head start and, with some editors, are great for keeping your projects organized. Personally, I can't explain to my clients "look, I could have used a WYSIWYG editor to get most of this HTML done within an hour - but that is lame, so I took 5 hours to code it all by hand - here is your bill" ... that's not how it works. Plus, most of the time I'm just building a template that I will be running PHP through. Once you start coding with a real dynamic development language, one's passion for straight-coding HTML seems to wane. Sure did for me. I just don't have the time to spend on doing something a program can do for me - that's why I started developing PHP applications in the first place.

HTML is a fairly redundant language. It's not dynamic and is really straightforward (a common sense language) so most of the GOOD editors do a pretty good job. I always encourage people to learn the W3C standards regardless so they can scan through their generated code and modify it from there. I think that anybody who calls themselves a web site developer needs to know what they're looking at when it comes to their code, otherwise they're just a designer.

Shinzor · 05-13-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redcore

I think that anybody who calls themselves a web site developer needs to know what they're looking at when it comes to their code, otherwise they're just a designer.

Thank You.. Well Said

**jamiemac2005** · 05-13-2008, 08:16 AM

Ditto^^ Redcore speaks the truth !

**Redcore** · 05-14-2008, 07:16 PM

* extends hand showing off giant gold ring for all to bow unto

haha :D Thanks guys. I try.

Most web designers haven't lived until they've written a pure server-side script. The first time I did, I realized that what I knew until that point was sort of child's play in a way. I think that script basically called to my database and checked what users on my website hadn't verified their addresses and re-emailed them their verification code - and those who haven't verified in 6 months were removed from the system. When you can get a script to do manual stuff like that for you - you really realize the power of the developer. :) Then you look back at HTML and think "man, that's easy stuff..." :P

Bodyloss · 05-28-2008, 04:19 AM

Exactly Recore^^

As far as editors go (no WYSIWYG) ive been using Aptan for a year or so now and love it. It's centered at AJAX/dynamic website design, but has autocomplete CSS/Html/Javascript, plugins for Ruby/Php/iPhone/Air applications.
Also theyve just released their own server called Jaxer that does some intresting stuff.

If you do want a WYSIWYG editor though i beleive that Microsoft Web Developer Express gives you a pretty average one for free (i think you need to search for microsoft web developer express 2005 or soemthing similar)

05-10-2008, 12:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
zineeditor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 61 OS: WindowsXP	Trying Out Some New Web Editors--Advice Please For years I used AOL Press. What can I say--I can't spend money on everything. Now I'm going to try out CoffeeCup, Trellian, and Sea Monkey. Any advice -- are they any good -- pros and cons? What about Amaya or Quanta Plus? And does anyone know anything about Paint.net? Is it anything like PaintShop Pro? I want something like that except without the price tag. Really some of the prices on software are outrageous!! It's enough to spend all that money on a computer, monitor, printer, etc. without all the added extras. What do they think--we all have an endless supply of money!!??

05-11-2008, 04:20 AM	#2 (permalink)
jamiemac2005 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northampton, UK Posts: 568 OS: Win Vista Home Premium & Ubuntu Hardy(8.04)	Re: Trying Out Some New Web Editors--Advice Please Okay, wysiwyg web editors tend to be a bit of a let down, if you want to design/develop websites freely with more control i strongly suggest you learn HTML/CSS/Javascript which you can find some extreemly recommended tutorials here: www.w3schools.com/ Then your editor can be something like notepad++ (which i recommend you check out anyway i cant remember if it has a wysiwyg editor or not)... I personally use Paint.net and GIMP when working on images, both are good alternatives to photoshop/paintshop but require a little bit of learning. And the reason software prices are outrageous is because the software company has to account for the fact that a large percentage of the people using their software will have stolen it. Anyway, Paint.net is great, i recommend checking out GIMP aswell (the GNU Image Manipulation Program) or GIMP shop (a more photoshop-like version of GIMP). I trust mozilla so i thin seamonkey may be good, you'll have to check that out yourself... Google labs has something on the go called Google Page Creator which may be of interest, you'll find it here: http://labs.google.com/ But if you really want to do it properly i suggest learning the languages and using them Cheers, Jamey

05-11-2008, 02:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Shinzor Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 24 OS: Windows Vista	Re: Trying Out Some New Web Editors--Advice Please I couldnt agree more with JamieMac2005

05-12-2008, 06:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
jamiemac2005 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northampton, UK Posts: 568 OS: Win Vista Home Premium & Ubuntu Hardy(8.04)	Re: Trying Out Some New Web Editors--Advice Please Haha, i remebered seeing something about wysiwyg on the notepad++ website, didn't know it was printing. Don't tend to use wysiwyg editors anyway so i wouldn't have known if there was one. Still definately recommend learning code, i've always used the analogy "If you give a man a fish he eats for a day but if you give a man the tools to fish he eats for life"... Imagine it as the wysiwig editors giving you the website you want but not the tools to re-create it without the editor. You learn the code and you have the tools to re-create them time and time again without relying on an expensive editor. Oh and zineeditor, paint.net comes as is and configures itself (from what i remember) i love it apart from the fact that it didn't have a preferences dialogue, etc. i can't remember whether this is being implemented/has been implemented yet? Still a very nice editor. Cheers, Jamey

05-12-2008, 01:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
Redcore Design Team Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Jamestown, CA Posts: 468 OS: WinXP My System	Re: Trying Out Some New Web Editors--Advice Please The purist point of view regarding WYSIWYG tends to be unrealistic in a production environment. Most people around here seem to be part-timers. This means that they probably don't do this stuff for a living - otherwise, WYSIWYG editors are good for giving your project a head start and, with some editors, are great for keeping your projects organized. Personally, I can't explain to my clients "look, I could have used a WYSIWYG editor to get most of this HTML done within an hour - but that is lame, so I took 5 hours to code it all by hand - here is your bill" ... that's not how it works. Plus, most of the time I'm just building a template that I will be running PHP through. Once you start coding with a real dynamic development language, one's passion for straight-coding HTML seems to wane. Sure did for me. I just don't have the time to spend on doing something a program can do for me - that's why I started developing PHP applications in the first place. HTML is a fairly redundant language. It's not dynamic and is really straightforward (a common sense language) so most of the GOOD editors do a pretty good job. I always encourage people to learn the W3C standards regardless so they can scan through their generated code and modify it from there. I think that anybody who calls themselves a web site developer needs to know what they're looking at when it comes to their code, otherwise they're just a designer. __________________ Free Resources PC Protection - Comodo Firewall \| AVG Anti-Virus \| WinPatrol \| Ad-Aware \| Spybot S&D \| SpywareBlaster \| Web Design/Programming - KompoZer (Editor) \| Paint.NET (Graphic) \| GIMP+GIMPShop (Graphic) \| FileZilla (FTP Client) \| Free Hosting \|

05-13-2008, 08:16 AM	#8 (permalink)
jamiemac2005 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northampton, UK Posts: 568 OS: Win Vista Home Premium & Ubuntu Hardy(8.04)	Re: Trying Out Some New Web Editors--Advice Please Ditto^^ Redcore speaks the truth !

05-14-2008, 07:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
Redcore Design Team Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Jamestown, CA Posts: 468 OS: WinXP My System	Re: Trying Out Some New Web Editors--Advice Please * extends hand showing off giant gold ring for all to bow unto haha :D Thanks guys. I try. Most web designers haven't lived until they've written a pure server-side script. The first time I did, I realized that what I knew until that point was sort of child's play in a way. I think that script basically called to my database and checked what users on my website hadn't verified their addresses and re-emailed them their verification code - and those who haven't verified in 6 months were removed from the system. When you can get a script to do manual stuff like that for you - you really realize the power of the developer. :) Then you look back at HTML and think "man, that's easy stuff..." :P __________________ Free Resources PC Protection - Comodo Firewall \| AVG Anti-Virus \| WinPatrol \| Ad-Aware \| Spybot S&D \| SpywareBlaster \| Web Design/Programming - KompoZer (Editor) \| Paint.NET (Graphic) \| GIMP+GIMPShop (Graphic) \| FileZilla (FTP Client) \| Free Hosting \|

05-28-2008, 04:19 AM	#10 (permalink)
Bodyloss Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 8 OS: WinXP SP2	Re: Trying Out Some New Web Editors--Advice Please Exactly Recore^^ As far as editors go (no WYSIWYG) ive been using Aptan for a year or so now and love it. It's centered at AJAX/dynamic website design, but has autocomplete CSS/Html/Javascript, plugins for Ruby/Php/iPhone/Air applications. Also theyve just released their own server called Jaxer that does some intresting stuff. If you do want a WYSIWYG editor though i beleive that Microsoft Web Developer Express gives you a pretty average one for free (i think you need to search for microsoft web developer express 2005 or soemthing similar)