Seeking a .mov metadata or tags editor for Vista

DMA_Dave · 06-26-2009, 12:51 AM

I've spent an hour or so with Google trying to find a way to add tags to QuickTime .MOV files from my Canon SX1 IS camera. I've gotten rather addicted to the fact that I can easily add tags to photos in Vista. I'd very much like to do the same for my videos but haven't found a way. Apparently it's possible, although a bit clunky, to do so using QuickTime Pro. I saw a similar request in a different area of this forum, but it wasn't answered because the person seeking help was trying to tag videos he'd ripped from DVDs. These are original videos I've shot myself. You can see a few samples here.

The next step is finding a program to edit these videos. I'm currently using Windows Vista Home Premium SP2 on a Core 2 Quad system, although I've been giving some thought to getting a Mac. I've used Pinnacle Studio 11 to edit HD from a Canon HV-20, but it won't work with .MOV files.

**blah789** · 06-26-2009, 05:35 PM

If you do get a Mac, get Metadata HooteNanny
http://www.applesolutions.com/bantha/MH.html
Don't know if there's a Windows equivalent.

I'm not sure how you'd get your MOV file into Pinnacle Studio. Here's some ideas (I don't have Pinnacle, so I can't test these).
You can use a combo of the Haali Media Splitter along with ffdshow-tryouts.
http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/
http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/
For the latter, check the box VFW interface and VirtualDub plugin anyway during setup (not 100% sure if needed, but can be handy later). If you don't need anything, uncheck all the boxes when you get to the audio/video codecs to decode page. When you're done with installation, go to your start menu, ffdshow, video decoder configuration. For H.264 set it to libavcodec. Then go to your start menu again, ffdshow, VFW configuration. Go to the decoder tab and pick codecs. For H.264 also set it to libavcodec. If the Haali splitter is also installed, then reboot. Try playing your Canon MOV samples with Windows Media Player (they should work). Then try opening them in Pinnacle Studio (may or may not work).
If it doesn't work here's another possible route. Can Pinnacle read MP4 files with the H.264 codec? If so, you could try losslessly transcoding (losslessly copy the audio and video streams from one container to another) from MOV to MP4 using QuickTime Pro. Open your file in QT Pro. Click file, export. For the export box, pick export to MPEG-4. Click options. For file format pick MP4 (I tried a few Canon samples and apparently MP4 ISMA doesn't offer pass-through). For Video, under video format, pick pass-through.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...assthrough.png
Then same drop-down menu where video is at, pick audio. I tested on some samples and apparently audio has to be reencoded to AAC (I think the SX1 IS records in 16-bit Integer Little-Endian, 44.1KHz, Stereo). You'll have to play with the audio settings because I don't know much about audio (or maybe someone else can make recommendations). My only recommendation is you'll probably want to keep the same sample rate (in KHz) and number of channels (mono, stereo, or more). And under streaming you can leave it as disabled since you're not streaming it over the net.

**blah789** · 06-26-2009, 07:16 PM

Off-topic for the post, but related to your link at http://www.dma.org/~lundyd/HD_Videos.shtml
My experience with MOV files shows VLC to be a better player than QuickTime. Uses less CPU power and smoother playback (better decoders). I haven't tried splash yet, but if I read the specs right, it offloads some of the decoding to the GPU (probably using DXVA). I'm not sure if VLC supports this yet. For taking snapshot, get Media Player Classic Home Cinema (you only need the file mplayerc.exe - extract it to desktop and delete the zip). Open MPC HC, go to view, options; playback, output. In the third column (for QuickTime), set it to DirectX 9. Then play the file. Pause, and hit the button two spots to the right of fast-forward for frame-by-frame seeking, then press F5 to take a snapshot. I think in MPC HC, they're saved to the desktop by default (in MPC non-HC it's saved to the My Pictures folder). Or press ctrl-S in VLC (no frame by frame seeking).

If you have time, try Windows 7 release candidate build 7100. Windows Media Player 12 can play MOV, MP4, and 3GP files, and all sorts of MPEG-4 (DivX, Xvid, 3ivx, and more) and H.264 contents. Ironically it too performs better than QuickTime Player.

DMA_Dave · 06-26-2009, 11:42 PM

Thanks for the suggestions, blah789. I'm not married to Pinnacle, so if there's another comparably featured editor that's not exorbitantly expensive that works with the .MOV files from the SX1 IS without jumping through so many hoops, I'm willing to try it. From what I've seen so far, it looks like dealing with these files will be easier on a Mac, but I'm a bit reluctant to spend $2K or more on a Mac so I can edit videos from a $600 camera. And I fear it may be a bit difficult to teach this old dog new tricks (ie. the "Mac way"). Maybe my 30ish nephew can help me with that. I still haven't found a decent way to tag the files on a PC.

**zuluclayman** · 06-28-2009, 06:42 AM

I have downloaded the .mov files from the links given and put them through both Sony's Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum Edition and Adobe's Premiere Elements 7 - both accept the file format and both edited them easily.
They both have a good level of functionality with multiple audio and video tracks allowing Picture in Picture, layering of audio and video, greenscreening, many transitions and effects.
Both will export at HD settings, allow use of various codecs including H.264 (high compression, high quality).
Both are available as 30 day fully functional trial versions - so you can try them and see which suits your budget and needs and style.
Personally I prefer Adobe but that is probably because I started off with Adobe and know it better than Vegas and I'm too lazy to learn another software package

Hope this helps.

DMA_Dave · 06-29-2009, 08:38 PM

Thanks for the info about Vegas & Premiere Elements, zuluclayman. I think the last time I used Elements it was at version 4. Guess it's time to upgrade. Now that still leaves the pesky problem of adding tags. Any chance either Vegas or Premiere Elements can do that and that the search function in Windows Vista or Windows 7 could read and index them? I recently got a rather old Mac eMac with the intention of getting familiar with the Mac OS, but I haven't done much with it yet. It's a 1GHz PowerPC G4, with 640MB RAM, 60GB drive, ATI Radeon 7500 w/ 32MB, OS X 10.4.11. After fumbling my way through it for about an hour, I finally figured out how to get it to talk to my PCs. I guess it would be futile attempting to use it to edit HD video since it stutters badly trying to play these files with QuickTime, but I'll get Metadata HooteNanny and try using it for the tagging.

**zuluclayman** · 06-30-2009, 12:50 AM

If you use one of the video editing software packages mentioned above you will most likely be exporting as either mpeg or avi - this may allow you to use a tag editor.
Google search throws up a number of tag editors - I don't use them so can't say if any are good or not - taste and try is probably your best bet.

DMA_Dave · 07-14-2009, 11:38 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried editing with Vegas and got excellent results, but found the UI a bit unorthodox, and had minor problems with titling. I was able to include some metadata when I saved the file. I haven't tried the demo on Premiere Elements yet.

I did try Metadata HooteNanny on my eMac but I'm not sure that's really the solution. The tagged video wouldn't play in Splash beta (still played OK in QT) on the PC. No, I didn't overwrite the original file - I created a new one which to my amazement was smaller (116,771,754 bytes) than the original (116,774,149 bytes). The best solution so far seems to be to include the data I want in the file name, such as Fireworks_July_2009_8Mbps_1080p_30fps.mvi, since Vista doesn't seem to be able to index tags in the video files.

But since I've ordered a 24" iMac, maybe that doesn't matter any longer.

06-26-2009, 12:51 AM	#1 (permalink)
DMA_Dave Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 7 OS: Vista Home Premium SP2	Seeking a .mov metadata or tags editor for Vista I've spent an hour or so with Google trying to find a way to add tags to QuickTime .MOV files from my Canon SX1 IS camera. I've gotten rather addicted to the fact that I can easily add tags to photos in Vista. I'd very much like to do the same for my videos but haven't found a way. Apparently it's possible, although a bit clunky, to do so using QuickTime Pro. I saw a similar request in a different area of this forum, but it wasn't answered because the person seeking help was trying to tag videos he'd ripped from DVDs. These are original videos I've shot myself. You can see a few samples here. The next step is finding a program to edit these videos. I'm currently using Windows Vista Home Premium SP2 on a Core 2 Quad system, although I've been giving some thought to getting a Mac. I've used Pinnacle Studio 11 to edit HD from a Canon HV-20, but it won't work with .MOV files.

06-26-2009, 05:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
blah789 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,231 OS: Windows 2000 SP4 and Windows XP SP3	Re: Seeking a .mov metadata or tags editor for Vista If you do get a Mac, get Metadata HooteNanny http://www.applesolutions.com/bantha/MH.html Don't know if there's a Windows equivalent. I'm not sure how you'd get your MOV file into Pinnacle Studio. Here's some ideas (I don't have Pinnacle, so I can't test these). You can use a combo of the Haali Media Splitter along with ffdshow-tryouts. http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/ http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/ For the latter, check the box VFW interface and VirtualDub plugin anyway during setup (not 100% sure if needed, but can be handy later). If you don't need anything, uncheck all the boxes when you get to the audio/video codecs to decode page. When you're done with installation, go to your start menu, ffdshow, video decoder configuration. For H.264 set it to libavcodec. Then go to your start menu again, ffdshow, VFW configuration. Go to the decoder tab and pick codecs. For H.264 also set it to libavcodec. If the Haali splitter is also installed, then reboot. Try playing your Canon MOV samples with Windows Media Player (they should work). Then try opening them in Pinnacle Studio (may or may not work). If it doesn't work here's another possible route. Can Pinnacle read MP4 files with the H.264 codec? If so, you could try losslessly transcoding (losslessly copy the audio and video streams from one container to another) from MOV to MP4 using QuickTime Pro. Open your file in QT Pro. Click file, export. For the export box, pick export to MPEG-4. Click options. For file format pick MP4 (I tried a few Canon samples and apparently MP4 ISMA doesn't offer pass-through). For Video, under video format, pick pass-through. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...assthrough.png Then same drop-down menu where video is at, pick audio. I tested on some samples and apparently audio has to be reencoded to AAC (I think the SX1 IS records in 16-bit Integer Little-Endian, 44.1KHz, Stereo). You'll have to play with the audio settings because I don't know much about audio (or maybe someone else can make recommendations). My only recommendation is you'll probably want to keep the same sample rate (in KHz) and number of channels (mono, stereo, or more). And under streaming you can leave it as disabled since you're not streaming it over the net.

06-26-2009, 07:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
blah789 TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,231 OS: Windows 2000 SP4 and Windows XP SP3	Re: Seeking a .mov metadata or tags editor for Vista Off-topic for the post, but related to your link at http://www.dma.org/~lundyd/HD_Videos.shtml My experience with MOV files shows VLC to be a better player than QuickTime. Uses less CPU power and smoother playback (better decoders). I haven't tried splash yet, but if I read the specs right, it offloads some of the decoding to the GPU (probably using DXVA). I'm not sure if VLC supports this yet. For taking snapshot, get Media Player Classic Home Cinema (you only need the file mplayerc.exe - extract it to desktop and delete the zip). Open MPC HC, go to view, options; playback, output. In the third column (for QuickTime), set it to DirectX 9. Then play the file. Pause, and hit the button two spots to the right of fast-forward for frame-by-frame seeking, then press F5 to take a snapshot. I think in MPC HC, they're saved to the desktop by default (in MPC non-HC it's saved to the My Pictures folder). Or press ctrl-S in VLC (no frame by frame seeking). If you have time, try Windows 7 release candidate build 7100. Windows Media Player 12 can play MOV, MP4, and 3GP files, and all sorts of MPEG-4 (DivX, Xvid, 3ivx, and more) and H.264 contents. Ironically it too performs better than QuickTime Player.

06-26-2009, 11:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
DMA_Dave Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 7 OS: Vista Home Premium SP2	Re: Seeking a .mov metadata or tags editor for Vista Thanks for the suggestions, blah789. I'm not married to Pinnacle, so if there's another comparably featured editor that's not exorbitantly expensive that works with the .MOV files from the SX1 IS without jumping through so many hoops, I'm willing to try it. From what I've seen so far, it looks like dealing with these files will be easier on a Mac, but I'm a bit reluctant to spend $2K or more on a Mac so I can edit videos from a $600 camera. And I fear it may be a bit difficult to teach this old dog new tricks (ie. the "Mac way"). Maybe my 30ish nephew can help me with that. I still haven't found a decent way to tag the files on a PC.

06-28-2009, 06:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
zuluclayman Design Team Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 3,049 OS: Windows Vista Home Premium My System	Re: Seeking a .mov metadata or tags editor for Vista I have downloaded the .mov files from the links given and put them through both Sony's Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum Edition and Adobe's Premiere Elements 7 - both accept the file format and both edited them easily. They both have a good level of functionality with multiple audio and video tracks allowing Picture in Picture, layering of audio and video, greenscreening, many transitions and effects. Both will export at HD settings, allow use of various codecs including H.264 (high compression, high quality). Both are available as 30 day fully functional trial versions - so you can try them and see which suits your budget and needs and style. Personally I prefer Adobe but that is probably because I started off with Adobe and know it better than Vegas and I'm too lazy to learn another software package Hope this helps. __________________ AutoGordianKnot Audacity K-Lite codec pack Irfan View GSpot TSF Photographer's Corner

06-29-2009, 08:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
DMA_Dave Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 7 OS: Vista Home Premium SP2	Re: Seeking a .mov metadata or tags editor for Vista Thanks for the info about Vegas & Premiere Elements, zuluclayman. I think the last time I used Elements it was at version 4. Guess it's time to upgrade. Now that still leaves the pesky problem of adding tags. Any chance either Vegas or Premiere Elements can do that and that the search function in Windows Vista or Windows 7 could read and index them? I recently got a rather old Mac eMac with the intention of getting familiar with the Mac OS, but I haven't done much with it yet. It's a 1GHz PowerPC G4, with 640MB RAM, 60GB drive, ATI Radeon 7500 w/ 32MB, OS X 10.4.11. After fumbling my way through it for about an hour, I finally figured out how to get it to talk to my PCs. I guess it would be futile attempting to use it to edit HD video since it stutters badly trying to play these files with QuickTime, but I'll get Metadata HooteNanny and try using it for the tagging.

06-30-2009, 12:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
zuluclayman Design Team Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 3,049 OS: Windows Vista Home Premium My System	Re: Seeking a .mov metadata or tags editor for Vista If you use one of the video editing software packages mentioned above you will most likely be exporting as either mpeg or avi - this may allow you to use a tag editor. Google search throws up a number of tag editors - I don't use them so can't say if any are good or not - taste and try is probably your best bet. __________________ AutoGordianKnot Audacity K-Lite codec pack Irfan View GSpot TSF Photographer's Corner

07-14-2009, 11:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
DMA_Dave Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 7 OS: Vista Home Premium SP2	Re: Seeking a .mov metadata or tags editor for Vista Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried editing with Vegas and got excellent results, but found the UI a bit unorthodox, and had minor problems with titling. I was able to include some metadata when I saved the file. I haven't tried the demo on Premiere Elements yet. I did try Metadata HooteNanny on my eMac but I'm not sure that's really the solution. The tagged video wouldn't play in Splash beta (still played OK in QT) on the PC. No, I didn't overwrite the original file - I created a new one which to my amazement was smaller (116,771,754 bytes) than the original (116,774,149 bytes). The best solution so far seems to be to include the data I want in the file name, such as Fireworks_July_2009_8Mbps_1080p_30fps.mvi, since Vista doesn't seem to be able to index tags in the video files. But since I've ordered a 24" iMac, maybe that doesn't matter any longer.