British soldiers beating Iraqi teenagers - Page 2

**freddyhard** · 02-14-2006, 09:11 AM

soldiers are trained to kill, so when you engage with them prepare to fight for your life. these teenagers were more than likely involved in throwing stones at the soldiers. they paid hard for their foolhardiness and regardless to this being caught on film these assults make life for everyone more difficult. anytime i met the british soldiers i'd keep my head down and move out of their way and if i was stopped i'd answer what i was asked and not provoke them. so i have no stories to tell, but i've heard both sides of being beaten by them and drinking with them.

in this case the soldiers were excessive, but ultimately the commanding officer is to blame. either they were let do it or he wasn't in control. i'm sure someone will be charged, but will it be the persons responsible and certainly this kind of thing will always happen.

**Fox** · 02-14-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

As far as kicking a dead Iraqi in the face, is it really a big deal?

Yeah, it is.

Quote:

Isn't that kind of a stretch? You are starting to sound like an extremist. Graveyards are hallowed, sacred grounds where people are laid to their final rest.

Okay, so they're fair game until they're laid to rest. Wouldn't you have to be psychotic to kick a dead guy in the head? There is absolutely no point to it, and it is extremely disrespectful, especially if the man in question was a civilian.

And I'm no extremist. I'm just putting it into perspective. How'd you feel if our government was unstable, we were invaded and "put back into our place", and then you saw one of our dead get kicked in the head by someone who comes in hearalding liberty and equality? It's just not right, no matter which way you spin it.

**bruiser** · 02-14-2006, 10:02 AM

Didn't we see some of our soldiers being mutilated, dragged through the streets, and hung from a bridge?

**Fox** · 02-14-2006, 10:11 AM

I suppose you're one of those guys who believes in "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth", right?

The coalition army is an occupying foreign force. As such, it needs to conduct itself so that it at least has the image of a liberator.

To abuse the people (i.e. beating the hell out of a kid who hit you with a slingshot) is sinking to that same level. How can any occupying force win the hearts of the people they're trying to liberate when they treat them like this?

Hell, kicking a dead Iraqi in the head is almost the same as dragging a dead American soldier through the street, wouldn't you agree?

mimo2005 · 02-14-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox

I suppose you're one of those guys who believes in "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth", right?

The coalition army is an occupying foreign force. As such, it needs to conduct itself so that it at least has the image of a liberator.

To abuse the people (i.e. beating the hell out of a kid who hit you with a slingshot) is sinking to that same level. How can any occupying force win the hearts of the people they're trying to liberate when they treat them like this?

Hell, kicking a dead Iraqi in the head is almost the same as dragging a dead American soldier through the street, wouldn't you agree?

I am with you Fox ....
once the kids released and free on the streets...they ll be happy to dig in some IEDS .

bry623 · 02-14-2006, 12:18 PM

I'd like to respectfully say that unless we see the events leading up to or after it, then we are truly ignorant. We aren't there and don't know what the soldiers are feeling. No matter the training, 18-20 year old kids are quick to respone to their emotions. Let's remember that we were that young at one time and try to show some compassion to the situations that they are in before we vilify them.

And let's not judge the whole coalition based of a tiny tiny videotaped fragment of their time there.

**Fox** · 02-14-2006, 12:36 PM

We may not have seen any of what led up to that, but it still doesn't justify their actions. Want to get revenge? Fine. Arrest them, use that as an opportunity to explain to them why what they did was wrong. Use that as an opportunity to show them that they're actually civil and respectable. All they're doing by acting on their pent-up anger is perpetuating the cycle that brought them to that point in the first place.

And I certainly don't feel that way about the entire army- I think the majority of them are exceptionally brave and honorable. They're doing something I could never and would never do.

**bruiser** · 02-14-2006, 01:03 PM

Now that I think about it some more, I don't think it was soldiers that were hung from the bridge. I seem to recall it was actually civilian contractors who were hung from the bridge.

**40sondacurb** · 02-14-2006, 04:28 PM

These are the people who riot over cartoons. Think about it, when they saw beatings and torture, they sounded pissed, but they didn't riot on the scale that they are now over a cartoon.

It's like a complete reversal, violence isn't such a big deal for them, but a disgraceful cartoon it the hugest thing in the world.

Tell me again why we want to liberate these people so bad?

newhouse1390 · 02-14-2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Tell me again why we want to liberate these people so bad?

Because people like me believe that Freedom will empower people to solve their own problems. Having a free nation in a region like the Middle East has a much better chance of than that of a nation that oppresses people, to become more reputable at the national level. This will bring these people up to modern standards and allow them to work with, not against, the free nations of this world. I believe that Freedom in a region like this will lead to the peaceful world that we all can see.

**40sondacurb** · 02-14-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newhouse1390

Because people like me believe that Freedom will empower people to solve their own problems. Having a free nation in a region like the Middle East has a much better chance of than that of a nation that oppresses people, to become more reputable at the national level. This will bring these people up to modern standards and allow them to work with, not against, the free nations of this world. I believe that Freedom in a region like this will lead to the peaceful world that we all can see.

should I be scared when republicans start sounding like ultra liberals running a social program? Except we're dealing with billions instead of thousands, and instead of being used on US citizens it's being used to help get card carrying members of the Death to America Club back on their feet.

I believe in liberating people but only if you can be at least 80% sure that the people you're liberating won't push you down after you pick em up off the ground.

mimo2005 · 02-14-2006, 07:56 PM

Revolution comes with-IN ...not by invasion not by assisting them ... let them find by themselves the path to freedom and democracy .....

best exemple : the ex communism empire , crumbled by itself .

bry623 · 02-15-2006, 08:02 AM

Yup, because we sure won our freedom from England without any help from the French at all.

mimo2005 · 02-15-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bry623

Yup, because we sure won our freedom from England without any help from the French at all.

but the french did not tell us to fight england...it was a decision made by the americans , then asked for some weapons to achieve it .
The Decision was 100% american idea to fight for the independance .

02-14-2006, 09:11 AM	#21 (permalink)
freddyhard Design Team Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Éire Posts: 1,583 OS: 2k (still!)	soldiers are trained to kill, so when you engage with them prepare to fight for your life. these teenagers were more than likely involved in throwing stones at the soldiers. they paid hard for their foolhardiness and regardless to this being caught on film these assults make life for everyone more difficult. anytime i met the british soldiers i'd keep my head down and move out of their way and if i was stopped i'd answer what i was asked and not provoke them. so i have no stories to tell, but i've heard both sides of being beaten by them and drinking with them. in this case the soldiers were excessive, but ultimately the commanding officer is to blame. either they were let do it or he wasn't in control. i'm sure someone will be charged, but will it be the persons responsible and certainly this kind of thing will always happen. __________________ "It takes two to lie, one to lie and one to listen" Homer

02-14-2006, 10:11 AM	#24 (permalink)
Fox Moderator, Microsoft Support Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 7,752 OS: XP Pro, CentOS My System	I suppose you're one of those guys who believes in "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth", right? The coalition army is an occupying foreign force. As such, it needs to conduct itself so that it at least has the image of a liberator. To abuse the people (i.e. beating the hell out of a kid who hit you with a slingshot) is sinking to that same level. How can any occupying force win the hearts of the people they're trying to liberate when they treat them like this? Hell, kicking a dead Iraqi in the head is almost the same as dragging a dead American soldier through the street, wouldn't you agree? __________________ Antec Neo Power 500W, ABIT IP35-E, Intel E2180@2.66Ghz, Corsair XMS2 2x1GB DDR2-800, PNY 8800GT, 320GB Seagate * lazy college student alert *- If I've inadvertently ignored a thread, please Let me know about it Have I helped you solve your problem? Donate to Techsupportforums Klart Skepp!

02-14-2006, 12:18 PM	#26 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 10,551 OS: winxp pro sp2	I'd like to respectfully say that unless we see the events leading up to or after it, then we are truly ignorant. We aren't there and don't know what the soldiers are feeling. No matter the training, 18-20 year old kids are quick to respone to their emotions. Let's remember that we were that young at one time and try to show some compassion to the situations that they are in before we vilify them. And let's not judge the whole coalition based of a tiny tiny videotaped fragment of their time there. __________________ When you fear Sarah, you attack her and try destroy her

02-14-2006, 12:36 PM	#27 (permalink)
Fox Moderator, Microsoft Support Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 7,752 OS: XP Pro, CentOS My System	We may not have seen any of what led up to that, but it still doesn't justify their actions. Want to get revenge? Fine. Arrest them, use that as an opportunity to explain to them why what they did was wrong. Use that as an opportunity to show them that they're actually civil and respectable. All they're doing by acting on their pent-up anger is perpetuating the cycle that brought them to that point in the first place. And I certainly don't feel that way about the entire army- I think the majority of them are exceptionally brave and honorable. They're doing something I could never and would never do. __________________ Antec Neo Power 500W, ABIT IP35-E, Intel E2180@2.66Ghz, Corsair XMS2 2x1GB DDR2-800, PNY 8800GT, 320GB Seagate * lazy college student alert *- If I've inadvertently ignored a thread, please Let me know about it Have I helped you solve your problem? Donate to Techsupportforums Klart Skepp!

02-14-2006, 04:28 PM	#29 (permalink)
40sondacurb #64 & #36 BACKBONE Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,764 OS: xp	These are the people who riot over cartoons. Think about it, when they saw beatings and torture, they sounded pissed, but they didn't riot on the scale that they are now over a cartoon. It's like a complete reversal, violence isn't such a big deal for them, but a disgraceful cartoon it the hugest thing in the world. Tell me again why we want to liberate these people so bad? __________________ Donate to keep the forum running "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully" -George W. Bush

02-14-2006, 10:02 AM	#23 (permalink)
bruiser TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,648 OS: xp	Didn't we see some of our soldiers being mutilated, dragged through the streets, and hung from a bridge?

02-14-2006, 01:03 PM	#28 (permalink)
bruiser TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,648 OS: xp	Now that I think about it some more, I don't think it was soldiers that were hung from the bridge. I seem to recall it was actually civilian contractors who were hung from the bridge.

02-14-2006, 07:56 PM	#32 (permalink)
mimo2005 Manager, The Relaxation Room/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 10,734 OS: xp	Revolution comes with-IN ...not by invasion not by assisting them ... let them find by themselves the path to freedom and democracy ..... best exemple : the ex communism empire , crumbled by itself . __________________ TSF has outgrown its server, again. Please help "Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi sed saepe cadendo"

02-15-2006, 08:02 AM	#33 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 10,551 OS: winxp pro sp2	Yup, because we sure won our freedom from England without any help from the French at all. __________________ When you fear Sarah, you attack her and try destroy her