City Bans Outdoor Smoking. - Page 2

**Fox** · 01-27-2006, 10:23 AM

Haha it's sort of ironic.

I don't support indoor smoking bans in privately owned businesses and restaurants. I believe it should be the the business owner's right to decide for themselves whether or not to allow smoking in their property. If a nonsmoker doesn't like that, then it's too bad for them because it shouldn't be the bar's responsibility to cater to their desires.

On the flipside, that business will probably lose some customers, and that's why the "smoking/nonsmoking" section system has worked so well for the past 30 or so years. Plus that opens the door for bars and restaurants that forbid smoking, who will attract these people that would rather kill their livers than their lungs.

yustr · 01-27-2006, 11:55 AM

All fine and good. The real solution is to make tobacco illegal or at minimum, regulated as the powerful drug that it is.

That won't happen of course because the legislators and legislatures of too many areas are as addicted to the money from cigs as the smokers are to the nicotine. Imagine if the Columbian cocca lobby contributed $billions to our states and to our congressmen - legally. You think cocaine would still be illegal?

newhouse1390 · 01-27-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Haha it's sort of ironic.

I don't support indoor smoking bans in privately owned businesses and restaurants. I believe it should be the business owner's right to decide for themselves whether or not to allow smoking in their property. If a nonsmoker doesn't like that, then it's too bad for them because it shouldn't be the bar's responsibility to cater to their desires.

On the flipside, that business will probably lose some customers, and that's why the "smoking/nonsmoking" section system has worked so well for the past 30 or so years. Plus that opens the door for bars and restaurants that forbid smoking, who will attract these people that would rather kill their livers than their lungs.

Well put.

Quote:

I don't give a rip if sally's sea shell business allows smoking... I'm talking about places like a McDonalds, where the manager steps out by the door for a smoke break.

I thought we were talking about smoking outside, I meant that I don't see why smokers should be allowed free reign in public space... light it up in your home or in a place that allows smoking. If you want to allow this, I'll exercise my right and come light a fire on the sidewalk outside your house and burn tobacco everyday.

Again, if the manager steps outside to take a smoke break then it is again the job of McDonalds not the government to tell that manager he cannot smoke there.

You say that you don't want them to have free reign. Do they? It seems as if all of property today is owned by business, people, or the government. I can't think of a specific example where they have free reign. But its kind of like saying that you can't cough or sneeze when you are in public because it is going to infect us all with germs.

Quote:

All fine and good. The real solution is to make tobacco illegal or at minimum, regulated as the powerful drug that it is.

That won't happen of course because the legislators and legislatures of too many areas are as addicted to the money from cigs as the smokers are to the nicotine. Imagine if the Columbian cocca lobby contributed $billions to our states and to our congressmen - legally. You think cocaine would still be illegal?

Why are you jealous of people who have made a successful living on a product? THAT’S CAPITALISM! and this is America. I saw this guy on the TV a few weeks ago that was telling the cereal companies that they need to stop advertising fat products. The business should have the right to advertise their product to make $$. The people can decide for themselves that the product is not "good" for them. The Government has already put all of these warnings/nutrition labels on their products. The next thin the liberals are planning is to outlaw fatty foods and cigarettes. And their we go "down the slippery slope" to a very over regulated society.

bry623 · 01-27-2006, 12:52 PM

Tobacco has been linked to so many health problems, that it is not somehting that anyone in their right mind would think is a good thing. However, its production has been the backbone of many states' economies, dating back almost 400 years. It's kind of hard to wean the government off of the tobacco teat that it has been suckling on for 4 centuries.

yustr · 01-27-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bry623

Tobacco has been linked to so many health problems, that it is not somehting that anyone in their right mind would think is a good thing. However, its production has been the backbone of many states' economies, dating back almost 400 years. It's kind of hard to wean the government off of the tobacco teat that it has been suckling on for 4 centuries.

So was the use of slaves. We had to fight a horrific war to end that.

But I agree with you. We don't have the testicular fortitude to do what's right.

newhouse1390 · 01-31-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

So was the use of slaves. We had to fight a horrific war to end that.

But I agree with you. We don't have the testicular fortitude to do what's right.

Do you really think that outlawing smoking to people outside is what is the right thing to do? It's funny how first we start with telling smokers not to smoke inside and now we tell them not to smoke outside. Yet many on this board say that they think it is ok for people to smoke. So where is ok for them to smoke? What going on here?

bry623 · 01-31-2006, 12:53 PM

People can smoke on their own propery.

yustr · 01-31-2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newhouse1390

Do you really think that outlawing smoking to people outside is what is the right thing to do?

No. I think that outlawing the planting, cultivation, harvesting, processing, sale and distribution of tobacco and tobacco paraphernalia is the right thing to do.

mimo2005 · 01-31-2006, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

No. I think that outlawing the planting, cultivation, harvesting, processing, sale and distribution of tobacco and tobacco paraphernalia is the right thing to do.

yustr ...other countries will step up and cultivate tobacco and sell it to US customers .

bry623 · 01-31-2006, 01:13 PM

And then we'd hav drug dealers and gangs regulating the sales of tobacco instead of the states.

**Fox** · 01-31-2006, 01:32 PM

And then hopefully it won't be any more prevalent as any other drug.

But you know, I don't think it should be outlawed. Cigar smokers are not generally addicts- my dad used to smoke a cigar every other month, and he was never addicted. And I don't think he's smoked once since we moved to New Jersey.

And even outlawing cigarettes would be borderline intrusive on people's rights. As long as they don't hurt other people in the process, they should be able to decide for themselves whether or not to smoke. It's not like hard drugs where the users tend to become sellers eventually, though the companies selling tobacco are definitely enormous- it's good that the class action suits knocked them down a tier or two. At least now we have some voices telling the youth that smoking is bad for them. I probably would smoke had it not been for everyone saying "smoking's bad" over and over in grade school.

01-27-2006, 10:23 AM	#21 (permalink)
Fox Moderator, Microsoft Support Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 7,733 OS: XP Pro, CentOS My System	Haha it's sort of ironic. I don't support indoor smoking bans in privately owned businesses and restaurants. I believe it should be the the business owner's right to decide for themselves whether or not to allow smoking in their property. If a nonsmoker doesn't like that, then it's too bad for them because it shouldn't be the bar's responsibility to cater to their desires. On the flipside, that business will probably lose some customers, and that's why the "smoking/nonsmoking" section system has worked so well for the past 30 or so years. Plus that opens the door for bars and restaurants that forbid smoking, who will attract these people that would rather kill their livers than their lungs. __________________ Antec Neo Power 500W, ABIT IP35-E, Intel E2180@2.66Ghz, Corsair XMS2 2x1GB DDR2-800, PNY 8800GT, 320GB Seagate * lazy college student alert *- If I've inadvertently ignored a thread, please Let me know about it Have I helped you solve your problem? Donate to Techsupportforums Klart Skepp!

01-27-2006, 11:55 AM	#22 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore/California Desert Posts: 4,748 OS: PCLinuxOS, XP Pro My System	All fine and good. The real solution is to make tobacco illegal or at minimum, regulated as the powerful drug that it is. That won't happen of course because the legislators and legislatures of too many areas are as addicted to the money from cigs as the smokers are to the nicotine. Imagine if the Columbian cocca lobby contributed $billions to our states and to our congressmen - legally. You think cocaine would still be illegal? __________________ I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said. J. McMurtry In Vino Veritas

01-27-2006, 12:52 PM	#24 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 10,464 OS: winxp pro sp2	Tobacco has been linked to so many health problems, that it is not somehting that anyone in their right mind would think is a good thing. However, its production has been the backbone of many states' economies, dating back almost 400 years. It's kind of hard to wean the government off of the tobacco teat that it has been suckling on for 4 centuries. __________________ Scarlet and Gray in L.A. 9/13/08

01-31-2006, 12:53 PM	#27 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 10,464 OS: winxp pro sp2	People can smoke on their own propery. __________________ Scarlet and Gray in L.A. 9/13/08

01-31-2006, 01:13 PM	#30 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NW Territory circa 1787 Posts: 10,464 OS: winxp pro sp2	And then we'd hav drug dealers and gangs regulating the sales of tobacco instead of the states. __________________ Scarlet and Gray in L.A. 9/13/08

01-31-2006, 01:32 PM	#31 (permalink)
Fox Moderator, Microsoft Support Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 7,733 OS: XP Pro, CentOS My System	And then hopefully it won't be any more prevalent as any other drug. But you know, I don't think it should be outlawed. Cigar smokers are not generally addicts- my dad used to smoke a cigar every other month, and he was never addicted. And I don't think he's smoked once since we moved to New Jersey. And even outlawing cigarettes would be borderline intrusive on people's rights. As long as they don't hurt other people in the process, they should be able to decide for themselves whether or not to smoke. It's not like hard drugs where the users tend to become sellers eventually, though the companies selling tobacco are definitely enormous- it's good that the class action suits knocked them down a tier or two. At least now we have some voices telling the youth that smoking is bad for them. I probably would smoke had it not been for everyone saying "smoking's bad" over and over in grade school. __________________ Antec Neo Power 500W, ABIT IP35-E, Intel E2180@2.66Ghz, Corsair XMS2 2x1GB DDR2-800, PNY 8800GT, 320GB Seagate * lazy college student alert *- If I've inadvertently ignored a thread, please Let me know about it Have I helped you solve your problem? Donate to Techsupportforums Klart Skepp!