bry623

U.S. army deaths in Iraq has reached 2000.

It's still less than 9/11 or Antietem.

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Scarlet and Gray in L.A. 9/13/08

yustr

It's still sad and it's still 2000 more than necessary.

Symbols and milestones are important; they point out the growing magnitude of the misery. How can merely pointing out the failure of the administration make it the liberals fault?

And there you go attempting to link Iraq to 9/11 when the two HAD NOTHING to do with each other. Now they do of course – but only because the terrorists got a rallying point handed to them by Mr. Bush and his neo-con handlers.

But where are the plaques and statues for these 2000 like those at Antietam? And Iraq will most likely have its own civil war battles to commemorate.

It hurts when you look in the mirror and see truth that’s hard to look at, doesn’t it? Its tough to blame this one on the liberals though. You elected him.

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40sondacurb

it's more of an, "I told you so," than a mile stone.

on second thought, I don't think any liberal has even said that.

I know the media has been reporting it a lot, but does that count as "liberal satisfaction"?


I don't think "Trump 'Bored' of Maples on Wedding Day" is a great story, but just because fox thinks it's news I wouldn't call trump getting a divorce the next week a millstone for conservatives.

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Fox

Bry you mean to imply that liberals are going to be pleased by the fact that two thousand U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq? And then follow it up by saying that two thousand people dead isn't all that many? You have to be kidding me.

I'd think a little harder beforehand next time you want to start a thread like this, it makes humanity look bad.

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bry623

yustr's response proves my point. Milestones are important. You don't think every democrat up for election next year is going to bring this up in their campaign? Paul Hackett, an Iraq war vet is running for the U.S. senate in Ohio based on his opposition the war in Iraq and the death toll is a part of that.

I do not blame any liberals for any of the deaths in Iraq. Some would argue that liberal from Arkansas could have prevent all of this, but I digress. My point is, and I think that you can agree, that some liberals.... the way far left ones lke Dean and Moore are going to use this to their advantage.

Comparing Iraq to 9/11. In a post 9/11 world, we can no longer sit behind our oceans. Iraq is a rallying point for terrorists now?? GOOD! I would rather have the terrorists focusing on anything but the United States.

2000 soldiers dead is sad. Each one died fighting the terrorists abroad instead of at home and most would gladly volunteer again. I majored in U.S. history in college and try to look at things as if I were looking back at them historically and I am merely wondering how the death toll in Iraq will be perceived whenever Iraq, 9/11 and the Bush administration are in the past.

Did you mean humanity or did you mean Bryan??

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Scarlet and Gray in L.A. 9/13/08

Fox

What I meant to say was that it undermines the importance of the 2000 lives you just used to propagate your political agenda.

Actually, I don't think they will. But feel free to prove me wrong when the time comes. Someone's sure to say it; I just don't think it'll be one of their main points.

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bruiser

Of course Iraq and the dead will be brought up. The dems will absolutely run on this.

bry623

I am hoping that yustr will agree with me on that point. And if ANY candidate brings up the death toll in Iraq, it will be they who undermine it for political purpose, not me. I am merely calling them out on it.

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Scarlet and Gray in L.A. 9/13/08

yustr

You're damn right they will bring it up. As well they should. It should be on every banner and poster and printed in bright red letters. Oh and they will also bring up all of the other failings of the Republicans.

Why?

The Republicans will have had the Presidency and both houses of Congress for 6 years come next election. The demo's need to force them run on that abysmal record.

I was ashamed of the democrates for allowing Kerry to allow W (Rove) to steer the discussion to "support the war or you're a traitor". If every demo candidate doesn't stand up and yell: "Bush lied about the war. Too many people have died. I do not support it now." they will be defeated yet again and it will probably be the end of the beginning of the end.

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bry623

It's scary when the mods agree on a point. I can't believe we have to wait another year to shake this out.

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Scarlet and Gray in L.A. 9/13/08

Ogtubuk

Im sorry to use such a cliche but that would mean the terrorists won. With drawing support from a now war torn region is probabally the worst thing America could do at this point. The next president, Demo, or Repub, is going to have a big mess on their hands. Its not the fault of a political organization tho. Its the nature of war. Chaotic, bloody, and just all around terrible, but you cant change your mind about it. You need the constitution to see it through. If American forces were withdrawn today from iraq, there would be Civil war and eventual genocide.
Some may say, yes but it is the republicans fault because they were the ones who declared war. Maybe a republican government declared war, but America Went to war.
If too many dying is what makes someone turn tail and run from a war, then what about in WWI where a million men would die in a single battle? WWII Thousands on the beaches of Normandy to liberate france, and eventually the rest of Europe, Those weren't to many then. They were American heros, they gave their lives to save a foreign power.
It is the same, if the allied powers turned tail and ran "because its to many" then there would be a dictator ruling the european continent, and more than likely, the rest of the world.
If Today we withdraw rom Iraq it will further destabilize the middle east, the amount of lives lost and ruined would not even be fathomable. This is our mess, we made it, we need to clean it up. But, withdrawig support is not the way to do it

bruiser

I think a lot of people forget a lot of the dems lined up and voted for the war. If we cut and run now, it will be open season on the USA, by any group that wants to attack us. Two thousand troops have died in the war, and they're all heros.

40sondacurb

they voted to give the president the power to make that decision, if they voted against giving the president that power it would have seriously undermined the authority of that office.

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yustr

Repeat after me: THERE WERE NO TERRORISTS IN IRAQ UNTIL AFTER BUSH INVADED and OCCUPIED. Now write that on the board 100 times until you understand.

The 2000 dead soldiers milestone is symbolic of too many young men and women killed under false pretenses. Comparing this fiasco to either WW is ludicrous. (Comparing it to the Spanish-American War would be much more plausible; false pretenses, global projection of power, a weakened adversary, etc.)

To claim now that we have to stay there to stabilize the Middle East is pure horse manure. It defies logic. Iraq is now the most unstable place there. But, it wasn’t Iraq that was causing whatever instability may have existed; they were essentially neutered in 1991. I’m sure the Kings of the other repressive regimes of the Middle East love the fact that our young men and women are the targets of the terrorists and not them.

Do you really think our presence will do anything but delay a civil war? As long as the US holds the Iraqi political process under domination, there can be no true self rule. We’re the cop who tries to break up a fight between two brothers. They both turn on him and forget (for awhile) why they were fighting each other.

Oh, and where in my post did I say anything about immediate withdraw?

Don’t get me wrong, I think we should. But I’m pragmatic enough to see that that is unlikely to happen. What I do demand is a realistic schedule for the “newly elected” constitutional body to take over with a commitment that the US will not be in Iraq permanently. Everyone running for the next Congress should demand that the flow of blood and money stop.

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bruiser

deleted, for now

bruiser

No terrorists in Iraq before the invasion? That's kind of like saying there are no fish in the sea, as the whole Hussein regime was full of terrorists. Have you heard of Salman Pak? It was the terrorist training camp ran by Saddam for various terrorist groups. Saddam was also bankrolling the Palestenian terrorists who insisted on blowing themselves up in order to kill the citizens of Israel. If you want a more in depth look at Saddam and his terrorist links, just search for "the mother of all connections".

yustr

Salman Pak was pro ported to be a WMD research facility and terrorist training facility. Nothing (in my quick search) says that any evidence has been found that anything was ever manufactured there. Nobody is reporting soil or debris samples with chemical remnants of WMD. And believe me, if Saddam was doing something there, at any reasonable scale, the evidence would be every where. And, the evidence for a training camp is from two ex-Iraqi military members captured and probably tortured. Not very reliable. And the "mother of all connections" is weak at best; almost everything mentioned in the article has been contradicted in other places at least as reliable as its sources.

My real point is how many is too many? If 2000 is acceptable. What about 3000? Why not 10,0000. If 3 years is not too much time how many is? If not $200 billion how much? At some point it's got to end but right now this administration has no clue how to end it.

Continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result is crazy.

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