1shotDROP

Although, I still stand in opposition of this idea, I think zineeditor brings up a good point. We are legally adults in every single way when we reach the age of 18 (except being able to drink). Maybe a resolution to this problem could be to create one universal age for everything? say 21?

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zineeditor

I've seen many drunken punks of many ages. I've lived in many cities including Miami and New Orleans both of which have always had lots of drunk drivers. Miami also has a lot of just plain crazy drivers, drugged drivers and senile ones. It's a wild place.
I fully understand about the terrible tragedy of anyone getting seriously injured or even killed by a drunk driver. My complaint is that the government keeps coming up with ways to pass laws about what we can and can't do. The problem with that is just how far are they going to go?! They don't stop. They just keep going. One of these days they will have us so boxed into a corner we won't be able to move. Don't think it's not coming. Case in point -- Britain has become an almost total police state. Cameras are literally almost everywhere. And there's lots more going on. Do the research. Incidentally Europe and a lot of other places have become part of some Codex thing that restricts anyone from buying herbs and vitamins. One has to get a prescription and the amount is severely limited. I understand that this country has signed on to this Codex thing (it involves a lot of other stuff not just vitamins) but supposedly we don't have to go along with the vitamin restrictions. Well I for one don't trust them. Consider how there are rumblings about making insurance difficult for anyone overweight. Now that could get quite complicated considering how many overweight people there are percentage-wise in the U.S. Smoking is probably on the verge of being outlawed (the point isn't that it's bad stuff but that it's another freedom taken away). There are restrictions on the content of simple allergy sinus medications now. It's difficult to get good pain medications by prescription now. Need I go on. Think about it. Think about the whole picture. At the rate we're going we aren't that terribly far behind from becoming another Britain or worst. Just wait and see what else they come up with down the pike. I've been researching this humbug for years and years.

Fox

I say make the legal age to drink beer 16, hard liquor at 18, and make the driving age 18. That way, kids are introduced to alcohol in a family environment, before they can drive, so that they know what it does to them. Then, after they have the experience enough to drive, drinking won't be as much of a novelty. I've been to Germany - most people under 30 didn't even have a car where I was, and they all were very 'mature' (if you can describe it that way) about their drinking.

But definitely not 21. 18 is an adult, period. I think it's BS that the government should forbid me to buy alcohol when I'm a legal adult.

I have friends overseas who are 16 in countries that allow them to buy beer at that age getting drunk and laughing at me even though I'm 4 years older than they are and still another year away from the legal drinking age.

And anyone who thinks that keeping the drinking age at 21 actually keeps those under 21 from drinking is just delusional...

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Drew1369

Actually many states have laws that allow your immediate children to drink in the privacy of your own home.

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Fox

True, so does my own- but I don't think that's good enough for a legal adult, considering that once we turn 18, we cease to be legally dependent anyway.

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Wozer

I figure if you are old enough to go and die for your country, you're old enough to drink...

does anybody here think that if they seriously enforced the DUI laws and such that there would be a heck of a lot less problems?

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1shotDROP

@Zineeditor

As you bring up a good point, one cannot simply take all these proposed changes to be equal. For instance, lowering or raising the drinking age would not have such a profound impact on our economy as say, outlawing the use of tobacco based products (drop in industry, unemployment, protests, raise in percentage of people in our correctional facilities etc.) Although many of these proposed changes are, like you said, ridiculous and are (if enacted) subtly moving our country towards totalitarian control, you can't just automatically assume that all change is bad. You must use sense and reason to implement changes that are necessary and equal sense and reason to halt those that are not. If we were to constantly keep our nation, operating the same for years and years without amendments, we would eventually become behind the times socially economically and militarily. We must change, if we don't, than what is the point of a democracy. However, as I previously stated, the change must be carefully monitored and contemplated before enacted (thus the point of majority rule [democracy]).

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Also just another thought, in many states minors can legally consume alcoholic beverages as long as they are served to them by their legal guardians. With that in mind, what happens to kids who reach the age of 18, who are already alcoholics, that puts them with three years before they can drink again. Hmmm, just a thought.

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chrispm84

Hmmm... I think that in a lot of places, 18 wouldn't be such a bad age to start letting people drink. With that said... I don't think that's a good idea for the U.S.A. You see, we are a country of (for the most part when compared to more strict and less developed countries) overly protected children. Too many children hit the age of 18 and really don't know anything about life. I remember when I was 13 living with my mom. She worked hard and would go to the bar everyday after work. Sometimes, (once or twice a month) a stranger would pull up outside and honk the horn. I'd open the front door to see my mother laid out on the door-step. I'd have to put her in bed and (fairly often) driver her to work, at the age of 13... Not because she was worried about anyone's safety, but because the judge had a breathilizer put in her truck, so she couldn't crank it if she'd been drinking.

Now, because of the child-hood I had, I rarely even touch alcohol... I was at a birthday party last night and only had two drinks. I believe that the best bet would be a test given at the same time as your driver's license test, that could give you a "mental age" so to speak. And that it would be required everytime you had to renew your driver's license, so if you had a mental lapse, then your age could be lowered. I'm not saying an actual age, here, but maybe a number scale of say, 1-5. And the government to require a specifc number for different things. Like 1 to smoke, 2 to vote, 3 to drink, so forth and so on. I think that our lives are so easy (again, compared to other countries) that most of us don't mature as fast as other people in other countries. And we mature vastly different then our peers in most cases. Just my two-cents worth! Hope I inspired someone to put their two-cents in, too!

1shotDROP

Interesting concept. However, it is just that, a concept. That would require much deliberation by state governments, not to mention the problems that would arise with those who received low "mental ages." As nice as it would be I just don't see it working. Also, I would have to say that I disagree that we as Americans mature at a slower rate then other countries. I think it really all depends on the person. Americans live vastly different lives, and, although when we think "American" we think of the average middle working class individual. This is unfortunately not how everyone lives. Life for many Americans is not easy. Some people, regions more specifically are stricken with poverty so much so that children are without health care and dying every day. Believe it or not, there are some parts of America that closely resemble a third world country. It is only in major cities and suburbs that life is "easy"

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Garryson01

in most european countries it is 16. Over here in the UK, they are thinking of raising it to 21. Personally, I don't think it should happen. A lot of problems are caused by bouncers ETC not asking for ID on the door. I think ID should be swiped before you can get into the club. Also, bar staff should be telling people when they've had too much and refuse to serv them. This happens quite regularly in pubs over here.

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zineeditor

@1 shotDrop

I don't know why so many Americans have to do everything in excess?? Something has gone terribly wrong with our society in America.
As for change, yes, some change is good, and certainly there must be checks and balances. However, it seems this country is on the wrong track in general. Getting to be one BIG NANNY STATE. Not enough independence of thought. Too many people can't think for themselves and/or don't want to think for themselves. And government wants too much control over our lives and they use any excuse to justify putting those controls on us. Case in point, I was right outside New Orleans for Hurricane Katrina. Most people have no idea how weird it got around here. The way the authorities acted was darn scary. You'd think we were being taken over by some foreign entity. There was no need for some of their behavior. I heard from reliable sources a lot of bad stuff was going on in Texas too. Since then I've been trying to find some place to crawl under a rock where I will be left totally alone. Until then I've erected tall fences with locked gates, etc. Some of the local "powers that be" said in the local newspaper they would treat anyone who stayed behind for the next storm like common criminals (in so many words). What they fail to remember is that some people don't have cars, some don't have enough money, some can't drive (that would be ME!), some have seniors in the family who can't make the trip unless absolutely necessary (my mother!), also some property owners are afraid to leave properties unattended due to excessive vandalism unless they're sure the area will flood, etc. Also they fail to remember that some areas around here are above sea level and generally don't even flood for the worst storm (once again that would be MY area). But they seem to insist on treating everyone and every area the same. Because of the aftermath of that storm no one around here will ever be the same. We certainly don't trust anyone. In all the years and all the storms I've been through I've never seen such weird and nasty behavior. Its never happened before. They must have turned into some reptilian pod people! And everytime now when I see something on the news about something big going on I'm highly suspicious of the facts being presented.

1shotDROP

First let me state my deepest sympathies for you and everyone else in that area during Hurricane Katrina. I can see how it would be difficult to trust any media source after having gone through what you have gone through. I am in no way saying that the media is non-biased, because with out a doubt they do fabricate news stories quite extensively. But being on the West Coast looking from the outside in, it would seem that it is only natural for humans to panic in a time of crisis such as a major devastating hurricane, even local authorities. It seems that by expecting anything less from them would be an attempt to bypass our natural human tendencies. However, on the other hand, they should be able to handle times of crisis with a bit more grace then the common civilian, but again, they are only human. And you must remember that not all of America's authority's are acting that way, for we are not all in a crisis zone. So my question to you is, what makes you more suspicious then the normal person of major news corporations like CNN etc.?

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zineeditor

@1shotDROP

Regarding post-Katrina it wasn't just local authorities acting badly.
What makes me more suspicious than the normal person--well, for starters I've spent many, many years doing extensive investigations of all kinds of information for various purposes. Lets just say it's what I do. I almost always know when something isn't what it seems to be. Blood hound instincts. I frequently have to research somethings for several years. That research can take many different forms. And now due to Katrina everything is more personal. Investigations is one thing, but having personal experiences is a whole different thing altogether.

EnglishPaul

From my perspective the problem was that people did think for themselves. Some decided to stay to loot; some were forced to stay and then forced to loot (if I am in a place with no food shops open, but I need food and know that some is stored in a boarded up shop...).
The authorities probably did overstep the mark; but on balance I would have though it better they intervened rather than just stepped back and watched. Despite how weird things got, I can't imagine that the authorities set out with the intention of doing evil.

Controls are tools for keeping order. And drinking age is one such tool. The problem with an absence of control is that groupings of people don't tend towards harmonious living. Governments need to govern peoples living.
I am of the opinion that there should be one legal point of coming-of-age, where voting, drinking, smoking, enlisting, and copulating are permitted. It won't suit everyone, but what law ever does?
But I see DUI's as a different argument. How is it so accepted in America? It sounds as casual a label as a speeding ticket would be in the UK. We may have a lot of things wrong here, but drink-driving is widely condemned: it is as unacceptable as murdering someone or defecating in the street.
As for our age of drinking at 18, it hardly seems to work. People can get served alcohol long before that, and it can be commonplace for groups of young teens to sit around drinking. And we are not responsible with alcohol; there are lots of young people destroying their health through heavy binges, and there are lots of older people that daily drink more than they ought as a lifestyle. Self-destructive alcoholism is not so commonly seen here, but it is probably quite well masked by common culture. And personally I wonder if the best regulation of peoples drinking habits would be to raise the cost of drinking so that it is only afforded as an occasional luxury.

zineeditor

@EnglishPaul
Greetings! I've always liked the Brits. I'm a diehard Anglophile.I even publish a Sherlock Holmes zine.
Regarding the Hurricane Katrina situation--I should have mentioned about the authorities holding guns on people who weren't doing anything (that includes senior citizens!!). That was outrageous!!!
Heavy drinking is a big habit among a large segment of the U.S. population.
Increasing the price like they have done with tobaccco just might work. However, it will probably make so many people angry they might just have some serious reactions. Alcohol is one of the only comforts of the poor and this country is on the fast track for having more poor than middle class.

yustr