thomsonmg2000

I've noticed that there are not a lot of talk or news about the current Civil War in Somalia. Yet, Somalia could be as important and probably more dire of a battlefield as Afganistan. See, Somalia has its own Taliban, the Islamic Court Union. They, like the Taliban, are using guerrilla tactics against an occupier, the Ethiopians. Also, like Afganistan, there are several high profile Islamic extremists that are wanted by the United States government. It is suspected the Al-Qaeda is supporting these Islamic insurgents. Also, hundreds of thousands of Somali civilians have been displaced and there is prospect of a much larger war in East Africa between Eritrea and Ethiopia because of accusations by Ethiopia that Eritrea is helping the insurgents (Hey! just like us Americans and Iran!).

And don't forget to imagine a scary scenario. Because Somalia has no government, it's maybe easier to sneak a nuke through that country than Iraq or Afganistan

So, I hope this post starts discussion about this (maybe) ignored war. Maybe we could post our ideas about how to solve this conflict.

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Nik00117

I think the only way to slove a conflict like that is with force... Its sad but true, when dealing with poeple like the Tailban you gotta be tough. And the US is not going back in there either. Only way we could slove that issue to completely wipe the taliban out, since thats fairly impossible due to the fact that the world community doesn't have the stomach to do it (the western world I mean) its going take something far larger to do this.

I think what we are seeing right now, is leading up to a major war invloving the islamic countries vs the western countries. There has always been major wars, we haven't had one for about 60 years. Such as world war 2 major. I can only guess in another 20-30 we'll have anohter.

But to slove the conflict? Support the Ethiopians with hard nose troops. I mean 300-400k guys down there ordered to annitalte the taliban. If civilians get hurt then so be it. Thats going to be a fact of the matter and anyone wanting the same thing as I do (the taliban gone and terrioism finished with) must make that decision to accept it.

But no one going do it. We are "civilized"

thomsonmg2000

When you mean "we" , you mean Europeans and Americans, right?

Back to Somalia, what I hope for in this conflict is to have all members of the African Union, especially those countries where indigenous religions are dominant, to send enough soldiers to create a 100K soldier coalition. Why indigenous religions? Well, Islamic countries may have some qualms sending soldiers to fight other Muslims, and countries with Christian population may run the risk of angering their Muslim minorities.

Honestly, the AU represents about 850 million people, so getting 100K soldiers can't be too hard. Plus, it could build some patriotism up on the continent!

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yustr

The reason nobody knows or cares about Somalia is because nobody knows or cares about Somalia. I know that sounds silly but hear me out.

I doubt 10% of westerners could point to Somalia on a map. If it hadn't been for the US's failed effort there back in the 90's (and the movie documenting it) I doubt 10% would have ever heard of it.

And lets face facts: Iraq has oil. Afghanistan had Bin Laden. If it weren't for those factors we'd not have invaded either - because in the whole scheme of things they just don't matter that much.

Which gets us back to Somalia - it hardly matters! We didn't intervene in Sierra Leone or Chad - yet we knew there were atrocities taking place in those African countries.

All this is not to say its OK to ignore what's happening there. On the contrary, its important. Look at what happened once we ignored Afghanistan after helping them to oust the Russians. (Go see Charley Wilson's War - not a bad movie. Its certainly not great but it kept me awake so it passes the basic yustr test.) And your point is well taken that the leadership void will be filled by someone. Wouldn't it be better if it was someone other than a radical government?

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Nik00117

I agree AU needs to take care of this, I see your point and it is a very valid point.

sobeit

why should we care about somalia, we went in there once before and they made it clear they did not want outsiders help. Theres too much anarchy, its everyone for themselves. Send relief supplies and they will ambush and steal for themselves.

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thomsonmg2000

But Chad and Sierra Leone didn't have Al-Qaeda fighting in those conflicts.

Like I said, that doesn't mean us Americans should invade Somalia. We've already done that and we quickly pulled out (BTW, a black hawk down like incident also happened to the Ethiopians when some Ethiopians were dragged around Mogadishu. Instead of retreating, they kept fighting). I just hoped to point out another major battleground on the war on terror that was being constantly ignored by western media.

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Nik00117

Why should we care about somalia?

same question was asked most likely in the 80s and 90s. Why should we care about afganstan? Why should we care aabout the Taliban?

Come 9/11 we suddenly cared didn't we? Erm I wonder why? Will someone please explain it to me.

Somalia could become the Taliban seocnd home, it could become their training grounds and operation platform for the next terrioist attack with thousands of poeple die, possibly a loved one of yours, or you yourself.

I'm sure those poeple who boarded those 4 planes on 9/11 didn't expect to be vaporized as their plane hit the petangon, world trade centers or just a farmers ditch. They never thought the actions of a man half way around the world in a 3rd world country could ever affect them that much. Well they wern't the only ones who thought that. Everyone thought the same thing, guess they thought wrong. We can't allow oursevles to think wrong twice, for the next attack could make this attack look like a minor fender bender.

RedScott

Uh, the US funded the Afghans in the 80's. We DID intervene in their war. Look what it got us. Intervening in Afghanistan didn't prevent terrorist attacks, it helped cause them.

Same will happen if we intervene in Somalia. Civil wars are terrible, but we should never intervene in them because to do so imbalances them to the point that one side can depict all the terms of the peace. Americans can't find Somalia on a map, how are they suppose to decide which side is the "good" guys?

thomsonmg2000

Well, someone, like the AU, needs to intervene (obviously not us Americans). If not, then there is a possibility, like what Nik said, that Somalia could fall into the hands of Islamic terrorists like Al-Qaeda or the Islamic Court Union, Somalia's equivalent of the Taliban. Somalia is not like "one of those African Civil Wars" that get constantly ignored. Plus, there's pirates off the country's long coast and it's possible that they could harm shipping in the Indian Ocean.

By the way, this maybe contradicting myself but Somalia has not have a government since 1991. Thus, Somalia was opened to terrorists 5 years longer than Afghanistan. Yet, the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11 were associated with Afghanistan instead of Somalia. At the same time though, us Americans did go to Somalia in 1993 to fight terrorists and now we think the same terrorists that destroyed our Black Hawk Helicopters are associated with Bin Laden.

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Nik00117

I agree the AU needs to get invovled. With finanical support if required from more developed nations.

Also to consider that the terrioist in 1993 in Somlia were related to Bin Laden is not alll that shocking.

Ever heard the saying the enemy of enemy is my friend?

Best example I can think of this in my personal life was in a game called APME. There were always the FTV side and the Shadows side both alliances in this game which hated each other.

Until they found a use for each other. And after 7 years, yes 7 years of clearly drawn out lines in this game FTV and Shadows combined forces to defeat a larger enemy. To think that some somlia rebles wouldn't get in bed with Bin Laden is naive at best.

bry623

I think that we should try to provide peace in stability in Somalia in whatever possible way we can. That way, their expatriates can move back and I can shop in a Wal-Mart with less culture.

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thomsonmg2000

I've noticed many of you in this thread aren't referring directly to the Somalian Civil War, just making your assumption about the Somalian War based off other fronts on the war on terror.

I should have posted this earlier in this thread, but here's a source for the Somalian Civil War:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_...0%93present%29

Also, you can use google news and search for Somalia.

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EnglishPaul

It seems to me that there is quite a mental leap to be able to identify the Somalian war as a western risk just because one of the fighting parties happens to be Islamic.

From the summary of the wikipedia link, it would seem that the biggest risk is that Ethiopia is going to be forced to enter into a full-on war with neighbours like Eritrea. Incidentally, American special forces seem to have already been involved.

I wonder what the nature of our Al-qaeda threat is? Is Nik right that a Muslim versus non-Muslim war is coming? For that to be sensible then all Muslims must share the same values, notably to see the destruction of the infidel. But I struggle to think how Muslims round the world are one like-minded functioning unit, it certainly isn't true of the Christian church. So perhaps Muslims just provide a good starting point for conversion to radical Islamic fighters, which isn't a very good reason to war all Muslims. And my suspicion is that most radical Muslim fighting groups are pretty diverse in doctrine, and unless united in a greater cause would quite happily war each other.
So on that point, the west need not worry on its own interests.

As for the people of Somalia; they have a really bad deal, and for the sake of that whole area of the world I can only hope that AU intervention and world diplomatic pressure can find a peace.

ebackhus

As an American I'm tired of my taxes being spent to fight wars for other people. If XYZ country wants to have a civil war then let them! I don't recall anyone barging in on the US during our civil war all those years ago.

Please, leave the world alone!

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farafa61

I agrre that the African Union shoukd do something, i also agree that muslim nations should intefer like nigera. i completely diagrre with the U.S using force. First of all Somalia has nothing to do with taliban because there is no comparion. and also whoever sid please get your facts stariaght. when U.S was looking for alqaedo people did they find them NO. because they saw that there weren't any. the U.S got attacked because the sent airstrikes in the country, U.S closed the borders making sure no one left the country thus causing a lot of citizens to die. to be specific 5000. How is it possible that the U.S can go into any country without permission and raid it upside down.