Why Romney Can't Win

~~Monty Python~~ · 12-22-2007, 10:45 PM

Cause the Mormon Religion is NUTTY, as in crazy, whack-job Koo-Koo Bird nutty.

Mormons are nice. They look nice, act nice, dress nice & smell nice & all but when potential President Hyuckabee starts getting taken seriously, there are ALL SORTS of stories about Joseph Smith, multiple wives and how the Book of Mormon was revealed that are goiing to UNDERLINE the perception that the Mormon Church is a very, very large CULT, based on nutty, koo-koo, Rev. Jim Jones-style beliefs and will be rejected in favor of ANY alternative, even if it's Shrillary Clinton.

**-=Rousseau=-** · 12-23-2007, 01:05 AM

Mike Huckabee isn't a Mormon. The candidate you are thinking about is Mitt Romney. Either way, a person's religion shouldn't determine people's judgment about their qualities as a candidate. Most would agree that religion shouldn't keep someone out of a job, why is the presidency different? I don't think religious views play into decisions about national security, the economy, and other policies. They may have an impact in religion related policies - but there is always congress and the senate... Checks and balances.

**40sondacurb** · 12-23-2007, 01:05 AM

I don't think his Mormonism will effect much of his policy. They mean it when they say "to each his own"; the only people that bother you are the ones doing their teaching service.

It's really hard to get a fell for the candidates. McCain and Huckabee appear to be the only sincere ones from my view, and then Giuliani and Romney are trying to play the staunch conservatives which they are not so they come off fake.

However I'm starting to like Romney. Good energy policy, good tax policy... I think he's one of the few Republicans with a chance in the general election.

**sobeit** · 12-23-2007, 01:23 AM

IMO, religion is a valid point to consider when deciding who you are going to vote for. True theres checks and balances but the president also has the power to issue proclamations and executive orders bypassing the checks and balances.

As far as huckabee being a morman, lets just say hes a baptist preacher. Most baptist and mormans do not get along when behind the pulpit.

~~Monty Python~~ · 12-23-2007, 05:44 AM

Well that's embarrassing.

Anyways, my point is that if the "Latter Day Saint" aspects of Mormonism were widely-known, Mormons in general and Romney in particular would be perceived as kooks.

Does anyone else know about what Mormons believe ? I did a paper on Joseph Smith in college, and some of of the story is completely whack-o. Yet I never meet anyone, or see on TV anything about this religion.

There is "respect for someone's religion" and then there is avoiding discussing someone's crazy religion because you are afraid of offending someone.

**sobeit** · 12-23-2007, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty Python

Well that's embarrassing.

It happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty Python

Does anyone else know about what Mormons believe ? I did a paper on Joseph Smith in college, and some of of the story is completely whack-o.

true, but like any religion or philosophy there elements within it that seems to be whack-o by non-believers - and this includes christianity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty Python

There is "respect for someone's religion" and then there is avoiding discussing someone's crazy religion because you are afraid of offending someone.

its because it almost always turn into an argument because ones faith and beliefs is extremely important and personal.

I believe this election season, religion will play a very important part in the outcome - and its going to be nasty.

**EnglishPaul** · 12-23-2007, 11:25 AM

I remember watching a documentary that looked at Mormonism. (I only watched it because footage of the interviewer loosing his temper hit youtube which was then flagged up on all our major TV news programs.)
Even taking bias into account, the Mormon church came across as being very aggressive in maintaining their appearance. They came across as true masters of the smear campaign. They would dig up anything from whenever to discredit all those who dared question anything. And so you could quite easily infur that the reason that no high profile celebs break ranks is that there is too much that could be exposed that would sink their carer.
Mormon church; cross at your peril. And I think I just have. Oh well.

Edit: Actually the documentary was on scientology. Sorry! I'm sure the Mormons are not at all like that.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81853779690652

**40sondacurb** · 12-23-2007, 02:15 PM

Are we talking about Romney, Hyuckabee, Scientology, or Mormonism lol.

**Chode** · 12-23-2007, 03:22 PM

Actually, 40, I'm wondering just what it is exactly that Romney can't win. If Monty means the Republican Presidential nomination, I'd say that is just about as relevant as being concerned about who gets the American Communist Party nomination.

Hell, all religions and sects are "kookie" when seen from the outside. C'mon! virgin birth, resurrection from the dead; hard to believe that Christians and Moslems believe in this, isn't it?

Romney's problem in trying to capture the Republican nomination is that he feels he has to repudiate most of his record in office and most of his beliefs to have a shot. Pretty sad that most of the Republican hopefuls feel they have to move as far to the right as possible to be nominated. A Republican candidate who was willing to cut loose from the religious right and also espouse traditional conservative values like fiscal responsibility and (actually) reduced government could have a decent shot at being elected.

**Chode** · 12-23-2007, 03:26 PM

I just wanted to add that Karl Rove's true legacy to the Republican Party will eventually be seen as having marginalized the party for a generation instead of putting it in control for a generation.

~~Monty Python~~ · 12-23-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chode

If Monty means the Republican Presidential nomination, I'd say that is just about as relevant as being concerned about who gets the American Communist Party nomination.

I meant winning the election vs. whatever Democrat. *IF* Romney (I've really sorry for the Huckabee flub, but can't fix it) can persuade the evangelicals to hold their nose & pull the lever, the Democratic candidate (which is to say Hillary, and I've got $100 to back up that assertion if anyone is up for it) will win hands-down.

My point is that Mormons have been given a glossed-over "pass" by the average american, primarily because all the know is Donnie & Marie Osmond. That stops when one of them threatens to become President. They wouldn't have entertained David Koresh as President either. Start talking about Joseph Smith, his hat, multiple wives, murder, massacre and the entire sordid history and Mormons are going to make Jim Jones look wholesome in comparison. There's a big difference between having respect for someone else's religion and submitting yourself to the governing authority of a whack-job.

**sobeit** · 12-24-2007, 03:53 AM

President Kennedy was the first catholic president, everyone was worried about him and if there were an internet back then, we would be having the very same discussions. Everyone would be orried that the pope was going to influence policy.

yustr · 12-26-2007, 10:34 PM

If you're of the opinion that a candidate's religion is a cult - then it's perfectly appropriate IMO to use his lack of sound judgment when deciding to vote for or against him.

In 1960 most people did not feel that Catholics were a cult so therefore when Kennedy said he wouldn't let Rome dictate his policy, the people believed him. I've not studied Mormonism enough to have an opinion, but if Romney wins the nomination, you can bet I'll do some reading. I do know enough about Evangelicals to know I'll not vote for one.

**Chode** · 12-28-2007, 04:36 PM

Romney's political career (prior to his run for the roses) has generally been pragmatic, and he had a pretty good track record as Governor of Massachusetts. I think it is a commentary on the times that his religion draws so much attention; almost all of it from the religious right. When his dad was in politics, did his religion ever become an issue? Not that I remember, anyway.

No, this is just another instance of how the Republican Party's courting of the Evangelicals has removed it from the mainstream of American thinking. My only problem with any candidate's religious views centers around the idea that I can't be a "real" Christian unless my beliefs meet certain narrow standards, and that these same standards are the only criteria for faith, morality, law, and public policy.

12-22-2007, 10:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
~~Monty Python~~ Troubled Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 462 OS: Vista 32-bit Ultimate	Why Romney Can't Win Cause the Mormon Religion is NUTTY, as in crazy, whack-job Koo-Koo Bird nutty. Mormons are nice. They look nice, act nice, dress nice & smell nice & all but when potential President Hyuckabee starts getting taken seriously, there are ALL SORTS of stories about Joseph Smith, multiple wives and how the Book of Mormon was revealed that are goiing to UNDERLINE the perception that the Mormon Church is a very, very large CULT, based on nutty, koo-koo, Rev. Jim Jones-style beliefs and will be rejected in favor of ANY alternative, even if it's Shrillary Clinton.

12-23-2007, 01:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
-=Rousseau=- Where Was I? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 714 OS: Windows Vista Home Premium My System	Re: Why Hyuckabee Can't Win Mike Huckabee isn't a Mormon. The candidate you are thinking about is Mitt Romney. Either way, a person's religion shouldn't determine people's judgment about their qualities as a candidate. Most would agree that religion shouldn't keep someone out of a job, why is the presidency different? I don't think religious views play into decisions about national security, the economy, and other policies. They may have an impact in religion related policies - but there is always congress and the senate... Checks and balances.

12-23-2007, 01:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
40sondacurb #64 & #36 BACKBONE Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,804 OS: xp	Re: Why Hyuckabee Can't Win I don't think his Mormonism will effect much of his policy. They mean it when they say "to each his own"; the only people that bother you are the ones doing their teaching service. It's really hard to get a fell for the candidates. McCain and Huckabee appear to be the only sincere ones from my view, and then Giuliani and Romney are trying to play the staunch conservatives which they are not so they come off fake. However I'm starting to like Romney. Good energy policy, good tax policy... I think he's one of the few Republicans with a chance in the general election. __________________ Donate to keep the forum running "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully" -George W. Bush Last edited by 40sondacurb : 12-23-2007 at 01:24 AM.

12-23-2007, 01:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
sobeit TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NEAR Posts: 5,847 OS: windows/linux	Re: Why Hyuckabee Can't Win IMO, religion is a valid point to consider when deciding who you are going to vote for. True theres checks and balances but the president also has the power to issue proclamations and executive orders bypassing the checks and balances. As far as huckabee being a morman, lets just say hes a baptist preacher. Most baptist and mormans do not get along when behind the pulpit. __________________ Do not feed the trolls.

12-23-2007, 05:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
~~Monty Python~~ Troubled Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 462 OS: Vista 32-bit Ultimate	Re: Why Hyuckabee Can't Win Well that's embarrassing. Anyways, my point is that if the "Latter Day Saint" aspects of Mormonism were widely-known, Mormons in general and Romney in particular would be perceived as kooks. Does anyone else know about what Mormons believe ? I did a paper on Joseph Smith in college, and some of of the story is completely whack-o. Yet I never meet anyone, or see on TV anything about this religion. There is "respect for someone's religion" and then there is avoiding discussing someone's crazy religion because you are afraid of offending someone.

12-23-2007, 11:25 AM	#7 (permalink)
EnglishPaul Still no avatar Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sheffield Posts: 1,076 OS: XP SP2 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Why Romney Can't Win I remember watching a documentary that looked at Mormonism. (I only watched it because footage of the interviewer loosing his temper hit youtube which was then flagged up on all our major TV news programs.) Even taking bias into account, the Mormon church came across as being very aggressive in maintaining their appearance. They came across as true masters of the smear campaign. They would dig up anything from whenever to discredit all those who dared question anything. And so you could quite easily infur that the reason that no high profile celebs break ranks is that there is too much that could be exposed that would sink their carer. Mormon church; cross at your peril. And I think I just have. Oh well. Edit: Actually the documentary was on scientology. Sorry! I'm sure the Mormons are not at all like that. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81853779690652 Last edited by EnglishPaul : 12-23-2007 at 11:31 AM. Reason: wrong religion

12-23-2007, 02:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
40sondacurb #64 & #36 BACKBONE Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,804 OS: xp	Re: Why Romney Can't Win Are we talking about Romney, Hyuckabee, Scientology, or Mormonism lol. __________________ Donate to keep the forum running "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully" -George W. Bush

12-23-2007, 03:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Chode TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 903 OS: Windows XP Pro	Re: Why Romney Can't Win Actually, 40, I'm wondering just what it is exactly that Romney can't win. If Monty means the Republican Presidential nomination, I'd say that is just about as relevant as being concerned about who gets the American Communist Party nomination. Hell, all religions and sects are "kookie" when seen from the outside. C'mon! virgin birth, resurrection from the dead; hard to believe that Christians and Moslems believe in this, isn't it? Romney's problem in trying to capture the Republican nomination is that he feels he has to repudiate most of his record in office and most of his beliefs to have a shot. Pretty sad that most of the Republican hopefuls feel they have to move as far to the right as possible to be nominated. A Republican candidate who was willing to cut loose from the religious right and also espouse traditional conservative values like fiscal responsibility and (actually) reduced government could have a decent shot at being elected. __________________ Sweet!

12-23-2007, 03:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
Chode TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 903 OS: Windows XP Pro	Re: Why Romney Can't Win I just wanted to add that Karl Rove's true legacy to the Republican Party will eventually be seen as having marginalized the party for a generation instead of putting it in control for a generation. __________________ Sweet!

12-24-2007, 03:53 AM	#12 (permalink)
sobeit TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NEAR Posts: 5,847 OS: windows/linux	Re: Why Romney Can't Win President Kennedy was the first catholic president, everyone was worried about him and if there were an internet back then, we would be having the very same discussions. Everyone would be orried that the pope was going to influence policy. __________________ Do not feed the trolls.

12-26-2007, 10:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore Posts: 4,993 OS: XP Pro My System	Re: Why Romney Can't Win If you're of the opinion that a candidate's religion is a cult - then it's perfectly appropriate IMO to use his lack of sound judgment when deciding to vote for or against him. In 1960 most people did not feel that Catholics were a cult so therefore when Kennedy said he wouldn't let Rome dictate his policy, the people believed him. I've not studied Mormonism enough to have an opinion, but if Romney wins the nomination, you can bet I'll do some reading. I do know enough about Evangelicals to know I'll not vote for one. __________________ I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said. J. McMurtry In Vino Veritas

12-28-2007, 04:36 PM	#14 (permalink)
Chode TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 903 OS: Windows XP Pro	Re: Why Romney Can't Win Romney's political career (prior to his run for the roses) has generally been pragmatic, and he had a pretty good track record as Governor of Massachusetts. I think it is a commentary on the times that his religion draws so much attention; almost all of it from the religious right. When his dad was in politics, did his religion ever become an issue? Not that I remember, anyway. No, this is just another instance of how the Republican Party's courting of the Evangelicals has removed it from the mainstream of American thinking. My only problem with any candidate's religious views centers around the idea that I can't be a "real" Christian unless my beliefs meet certain narrow standards, and that these same standards are the only criteria for faith, morality, law, and public policy. __________________ Sweet!