Drew1369

The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States.

The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free - provided residents renounce their U.S. citizenship, Mr Means said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html

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simpswr

Russell Means again . . . he was the character that started the standoff at Wounded Knee in the 80's . . Looks like he has found another way to make money off his people!

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bry623

I agree, it is just a cash grab.

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RedScott

Good for them, though this certainly didn't end well when South Carolina tried it.

40sondacurb

South Carolina didn't have a treaty to withdraw from. They were liberated from the British by the Federal Government and that is the jurisdiction they then fell under.

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RedScott

What a silly idea. There was no Federal Government when the colonies seceded from Britain.

40sondacurb

They already had this argument in the 1700s, the federalist won.

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bry623

It was a confederate govt.

Besides, the big bad white man made his push westward. It was sad, it was terrible, it is over. Just because you aren't white doesn't give you the right to get over on the government for the injustices given to your ancestors.

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EnglishPaul

Tell that to the Palestinians who, as far as I can see, got occupied just because of injustices done to the Jews, and their ancestors.

Drew1369

but they are still doing injustices to the Jews and Israel... so I don't see your point...

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EnglishPaul

But do the Palestinians do injustices because of the state of Israel, or because they are antisemitic? Is it all a reaction to the injustice of initially taking their land, in which case there are quite good parallels.

40sondacurb

Well you don't see them bombing the Jews in Iran or Egypt, but how could you not be anti-semitic w/ all the propaganda they get from age 3 up.

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sobeit

if we went by what the un says the question would be on deciding who the indigenous people are. It depends how far back into history they decide to go. This includes every one - including the Palestinians & Israelites.

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They had this bountiful continent for thousands of years, and the best they could achieve was stone tools and shelters made of dead-animal skin.

An inferior people, culture, race, whatever that failed to advance past mere basic survival. Most didn't even have a written language. And in the middle of an age filled with expontential leaps in human development, we are supposed to have some respect for the people that scribbled stick-figures of buffalos on sides of cave walls.

EnglishPaul

Which makes me wonder about the pyramids. There must have been a race that was making exponential leaps ahead of their neighbours. Yet Egypt is hardly a superpower now. Nor is Greece, the birthplace of philosophy; nor Rome, home to the biggest empire until the British.
All empires have their rise and fall. The Indians lived in sinc with their surroundings. The 'whiteman' seems to me to have done the opposite, and now inflicts the globe with global warming.

Monty Python

Good points. Another (and better) parallel is the Islamic Culture which at one time was the apex of human advancement. They rejected hard science for religious mysticism and have been wallowing in a cesspool of self-destructive stagnation ever since, completely dependant upon other, superior cultures to elevate their standard of living to anything above bare survival.

The average life expectancy of a non-conquered Native American was 25 years, which is to say that a 25 year old Indian was an old man. So they did not live "in sync" with the environment; they fell victim to it and never developed the ability to alter that environment to improve the length and quality of their lives.

The whole "natural economic balance" routine is the Holy Grail and Wonderous Salvation, and is mentioned only because their is nothing else positive to say about this culture. It's also pure BS. For every cosmic imbalance modern technology creates, there are several cures for diseases, an extention in average life expectancy, more leisure time and a general improvement quality of life.

Further, technological advancement is on an expontential up-curve. The present-day benefits leverage even more benefits and an ever increasing rate. At some point, the life expectancy may be 500 years, or even indefinate. (Note: This is otherwise known as "eternal life", brought to you by MAN HIMSLEF rather than some religious whack-job muttering mumbo-jumbo.) Imagine the benefit to humanity if Einstein or Edison had lived for 200 years. Now multiply that number by about 10,000. Internet-based information makes an unlimited education virtually free and available to anyone regardless of socio-economics status or social class.

A true meritocracy, for the first time in human history.

So please, cry for the Indians if you must. Even publically if necessary. But expect little respect and no sympathy, as their are more important events currently in play than grieving over one of the many failed cultural experiments that just happened to have been on this continent at the time when a superior culture found a way to make better use of it.

EnglishPaul

At the risk of flying off topic,

I have always wondered what the ability of our enlightened society would be should something catastrophic happen. For example, the reason that computers are so fast is that humans use computers to design them, plan them, then robots to make them. But if all computers were to be wiped out in some bizarre occurrence, how long would it take to get back on track, if at all possible. We would have lots of people highly skilled at getting computers to design computers, but could we design the circuit boards to make the initial computers.
And though this sudden destruction of all computers seems unlikely, I do wonder to an Egyptian how unlikely it would seem to forget how to build a pyramid. Or to someone in Pompey that they may become an instant fossil.
Life is full of uncertainties, so I would be careful in thinking that this society is unsinkable. It was said once of the Titanic.
I have also long wondered how long after a total collapse in our theoretical money system (stocks and shares) it would be for our society to completely disintegrate. Take out money, you even