Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks

cstr20cstr · 11-30-2007, 03:58 PM

and admits the US troop surge in Iraq is working, but Pelosi and other leftists insists on throwing up the white flag :
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/...s.war.funding/

This is looking more and more like a serious setback for leftwing radicals; as things are slowly improving in Iraq. If the US/GWB succeed in bringing democracy to Iraq after kicking Hussein out, leftists will either have to either turn away with their tails between their legs, or dig up some more new radical conspiracy theories....

**40sondacurb** · 11-30-2007, 08:37 PM

This may be a problem for the radical leftist, but for centrists, who's main argument has always been that they don't give a damn about the Iraqis and that all they want is to stop pouring money into the country, nothing has changed.

I like these little presidential humanitarian missions quick and to the point. As we near our next few billion in spending I think you can say Iraq is not either of those things.

Good to know Murtha wasn't just going to toe the line.

Tumbleweed36 · 12-01-2007, 03:29 AM

After making previous false statements about US soldiers killing innocents (randomly and often), no one listens to him anymore. Therefore, much ado about nothing. What he says just doesn't count after telling such blatent lies that were proven false.

RedScott · 12-01-2007, 09:19 AM

The problem with big government left wing extremists like cstr20cstr is that they'll spend trillions of tax payer dollars in other countries to kill enough people to bring the democrazy even though it's in direct conflict with the interests of the people who are paying the bills. But I guess it's for the greater good or some such imaginary nonsense.

**bruiser** · 12-01-2007, 10:03 AM

I don't think cstr20 is a left wing extremist.

yustr · 12-01-2007, 10:37 AM

At some point if you bend far enough right you circle back to meet the extreme left.

**bruiser** · 12-01-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yustr

At some point if you bend far enough right you circle back to meet the extreme left.

I'd say if either side moves far enough, the twain will eventually meet.

RedScott · 12-01-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruiser

I don't think cstr20 is a left wing extremist.

No? Well let's see, he supports big government, gleefully rejoices in the deaths the State creates, and demands more and more tax money is spent by the State.

Does any of that sound "conservative" to you? Sure sounds ulta-lefty to me.

**bruiser** · 12-01-2007, 02:10 PM

I think he'll answer the question.

Tumbleweed36 · 12-01-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedScott

gleefully rejoices in the deaths the State creates

My friend, I suggust you refrain from comments like this because they are not helpful, are inflamatory, and I am certain not even true. These type comments do not have a place in forum debates. Please keep this debate on facts that you know are true and you will be fine. Thank you.

cstr20cstr · 12-01-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedScott

No? Well let's see, he supports big government, gleefully rejoices in the deaths the State creates, and demands more and more tax money is spent by the State.

It's not "the state" thats killing our troops my dear, it's terrorists and other radical muslims. LRN2OBSERVE....

RedScott · 12-01-2007, 02:43 PM

Ah, right, because the military agents of the State NEVER kill anyone innocent . Ever.

Tumbleweed36 · 12-01-2007, 02:53 PM

War, in fact always kills some who are not guilty of anything. That is true on both sides. That does not mean it is necessarily intentional, but at times that may also be a fact of war. It just plain happens.

When that happens, we hope those individuals who are guilty of unprovoked killing of innocent people will get punished to the fullest extent of the law.

My thought is that those who accuse the military combatants of that (either side) when they have no basis of fact (Murtha did this and it was proven by a court those soldiers were not guilty of what he accused them of), they are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Murtha is a loose cannon who is not responsible so no one will listen to him after this fiasco. He is a "nothing" for fabricating that which he knew nothing about (but pretended he knew the facts) on this issue.

I have no idea whether he is left leaning or middle left leaning, but just know that he fabricated a story to get his personal viewpoint across.

**Chode** · 12-01-2007, 03:31 PM

The whole issue of the "surge's" degree of success is interesting. We've certainly seen a reduction in violence in Iraq during the past 3 months, but I still think that most of that is due to the Iraqi's. Tribal leaders are co-operating more with the U.S. (and increasingly becoming assassination targets), and Iraqi security forces are starting to pick up some of the load as well.

But, just for the sake of argument, let's say I'm totally off base and the troop increase is the sole reason for reduced casualties in Iraq. So what? U.S. casualties for 2007 as of early November, were still the highest of any year of the war to date. And U.S. forces are being reduced next year not because of the surge's success or failure, but because the surge was seen by the Joint Chiefs of Staff from the beginning, as being unsustainable for a lengthier period.

So, come what may, most of the increased troop strength will leave by summer. I'd say anyone who expects that the military and political situation in Iraq will be resolved that soon is either stunningly naive, or in need of increased medication. Only your therapist can say for sure.

In other words, even if the surge were an unqualified success, it still doesn't represent a long-term solution to our woes in Iraq. I don't see anything happening that convinces me that the war in Iraq was ever anything but a mistake, or that the situation can still be solved by maintaining a large U.S. combat force there. All we have seen from the administration is an endless repetition of the theme that we need to keep doing what we done in the past, and if we do it long enough, we'll succeed. Failure to learn from experience and adjust counter-productive behaviors is a common feature in several forms of mental illness.

**simpswr** · 12-01-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

but just know that he fabricated a story to get his personal viewpoint across.

Yep . . John can be a bit of a loose cannon, but he should know that only W is intitled to do that! !

Tumbleweed36 · 12-01-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simpswr

Yep . . John can be a bit of a loose cannon, but he should know that only W is intitled to do that! !

No one in a position of government trust is entitled to do that, but this thread is about John Murtha, so we can talk about "W" when that is posted as the topic of the thread.

Murtha is more than a loose cannon, he is an idiot who will do anything for political gain. He should truly be ashamed of himself for undermining those troops in the line of fire.

**40sondacurb** · 12-01-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumbleweed36

No one in a position of government trust is entitled to do that, but this thread is about John Murtha, so we can talk about "W" when that is posted as the topic of the thread.

Murtha is more than a loose cannon, he is an idiot who will do anything for political gain. He should truly be ashamed of himself for undermining those troops in the line of fire.

Wasn't a coincidence that Pelosi backed his move against Hoyer after all his saber rattling. I think you're right in that chalking this up to him just trying to save face ultimately seems more accurate.

cstr20cstr · 12-01-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedScott

Ah, right, because the military agents of the State NEVER kill anyone innocent . Ever.

gleefully rejoices in the deaths the State creates

You're trying to make it sound like it's US/GWB policy to kill innocent civilians; thats bull crap and you know it.

Funny how leftists have nothing to say (or blame the US) when a terrorist DELIBERATELY kills innocent civilians, BUT, when there's any collateral damage (by US troops) they go ape sh*t......

11-30-2007, 03:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
cstr20cstr Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 309 OS: xp	Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks and admits the US troop surge in Iraq is working, but Pelosi and other leftists insists on throwing up the white flag : http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/...s.war.funding/ This is looking more and more like a serious setback for leftwing radicals; as things are slowly improving in Iraq. If the US/GWB succeed in bringing democracy to Iraq after kicking Hussein out, leftists will either have to either turn away with their tails between their legs, or dig up some more new radical conspiracy theories.... Last edited by cstr20cstr : 11-30-2007 at 04:00 PM.

11-30-2007, 08:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
40sondacurb #64 & #36 BACKBONE Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,764 OS: xp	Re: Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks This may be a problem for the radical leftist, but for centrists, who's main argument has always been that they don't give a damn about the Iraqis and that all they want is to stop pouring money into the country, nothing has changed. I like these little presidential humanitarian missions quick and to the point. As we near our next few billion in spending I think you can say Iraq is not either of those things. Good to know Murtha wasn't just going to toe the line. __________________ Donate to keep the forum running "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully" -George W. Bush

12-01-2007, 03:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 14,090 OS: XP Professional	Re: Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks After making previous false statements about US soldiers killing innocents (randomly and often), no one listens to him anymore. Therefore, much ado about nothing. What he says just doesn't count after telling such blatent lies that were proven false. __________________ ---------- Last edited by Tumbleweed36 : 12-01-2007 at 03:31 AM.

12-01-2007, 09:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
RedScott Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 298 OS: Windows XP	Re: Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks The problem with big government left wing extremists like cstr20cstr is that they'll spend trillions of tax payer dollars in other countries to kill enough people to bring the democrazy even though it's in direct conflict with the interests of the people who are paying the bills. But I guess it's for the greater good or some such imaginary nonsense. Last edited by RedScott : 12-01-2007 at 09:33 AM.

12-01-2007, 10:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
bruiser TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,648 OS: xp	Re: Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks I don't think cstr20 is a left wing extremist.

12-01-2007, 10:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
yustr Asst. Manager, The Conversation Pit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut shore/California Desert Posts: 4,855 OS: PCLinuxOS, XP Pro My System	Re: Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks At some point if you bend far enough right you circle back to meet the extreme left. __________________ I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said. J. McMurtry In Vino Veritas

12-01-2007, 02:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
bruiser TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,648 OS: xp	Re: Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks I think he'll answer the question.

12-01-2007, 02:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
RedScott Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 298 OS: Windows XP	Re: Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks Ah, right, because the military agents of the State NEVER kill anyone innocent . Ever.

12-01-2007, 02:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
Tumbleweed36 Asst Manager Hardware Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 14,090 OS: XP Professional	Re: Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks War, in fact always kills some who are not guilty of anything. That is true on both sides. That does not mean it is necessarily intentional, but at times that may also be a fact of war. It just plain happens. When that happens, we hope those individuals who are guilty of unprovoked killing of innocent people will get punished to the fullest extent of the law. My thought is that those who accuse the military combatants of that (either side) when they have no basis of fact (Murtha did this and it was proven by a court those soldiers were not guilty of what he accused them of), they are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Murtha is a loose cannon who is not responsible so no one will listen to him after this fiasco. He is a "nothing" for fabricating that which he knew nothing about (but pretended he knew the facts) on this issue. I have no idea whether he is left leaning or middle left leaning, but just know that he fabricated a story to get his personal viewpoint across. __________________ ----------

12-01-2007, 03:31 PM	#14 (permalink)
Chode TSF Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 784 OS: Windows XP Pro	Re: Murtha breaks radical left-wing ranks The whole issue of the "surge's" degree of success is interesting. We've certainly seen a reduction in violence in Iraq during the past 3 months, but I still think that most of that is due to the Iraqi's. Tribal leaders are co-operating more with the U.S. (and increasingly becoming assassination targets), and Iraqi security forces are starting to pick up some of the load as well. But, just for the sake of argument, let's say I'm totally off base and the troop increase is the sole reason for reduced casualties in Iraq. So what? U.S. casualties for 2007 as of early November, were still the highest of any year of the war to date. And U.S. forces are being reduced next year not because of the surge's success or failure, but because the surge was seen by the Joint Chiefs of Staff from the beginning, as being unsustainable for a lengthier period. So, come what may, most of the increased troop strength will leave by summer. I'd say anyone who expects that the military and political situation in Iraq will be resolved that soon is either stunningly naive, or in need of increased medication. Only your therapist can say for sure. In other words, even if the surge were an unqualified success, it still doesn't represent a long-term solution to our woes in Iraq. I don't see anything happening that convinces me that the war in Iraq was ever anything but a mistake, or that the situation can still be solved by maintaining a large U.S. combat force there. All we have seen from the administration is an endless repetition of the theme that we need to keep doing what we done in the past, and if we do it long enough, we'll succeed. Failure to learn from experience and adjust counter-productive behaviors is a common feature in several forms of mental illness. __________________ Sweet!