Xerxes

A background on the islamic history. I will be writing this into two subdivisions

Pre islamic history and modern islamic history.

Pre islamic history: I often seen that Arabs more religious than any other people. In the olden times, They would show thier faith with the forms following. For example, Two men would swear a friendship, they stand on each side of a third: One with a sharp stone makes a cut on the inside of the hand and use the piece from their dress and dips it in the blood of each, and moistens seven stones lying in the midst. After this, the man who makes the pledge commends the stranger (or the citizen, if citizen he be) to all his friends, and they deem themselves bound to stand to the engagement. Arabs usd to believe these two gods Bacchus and Urania; There is a great river in Arabia, called the Corys, which empties itself into the Erythraean sea.

Arabia iland towards the south, and only country which produces frankincense, myrrh, other smells.The Arabians believed that whole world would be swarmed with serpents. They say serpent need to be kept in check in the way in which the Arabians obtain their frankincense; they collect these skins. They used to cover their body and their face with the hides of oxen and other skins with holes for the eyes. they used these methods to protect them from number of winged animals resembling bats which horribly are very valiant.

this was the life of ancient bedouins.......................

Now, these arabs used to trade spices and collect these stuff from differnt places . this were story get the twist. the arabian lands were divided into four zones. this i got from my father who was working in UAE for 10 yrs. Yes, Arabs blieved in different gods in ancient times. They had many enemies which were ethyopians,greek,persia and phonecia. the times of these people were going to get more harder. they needed a savior to protect their belongings and men. This was the time of the geat Prophet . Arabs were greatly influenced by Byzantinism -- the Roman, the Greek, and the Christian and it was the last that affected, influenced, and sometimes even controlled the lives of those Arabs who moved in the Byzantine orbit. By far the most potent influence of Christianity on the Arabs was that of monasticism. The Christian hero after the saint and the martyr, the monk who renounced the world and came to live Arabicland. it was thought that prophet muhamed believed in the teachings of the monk. the arabs at first were happy that they were sons of arabhram but later regrettted idea being the son of a slave.IAround the turn of the century the Prophet Muhammad was given birth proclaimed Islam as the true religion of the straight path. In the Koran the first son Ishmael appears not as a biblical outcast but as a prophet.islam appeared becoz of many threats and bad relationship weith byzantine empire. the arabs werr looked down as outcast and arabs needed to protect wives and trades from thsese byzantine wars. the islam was born and prophet muhammed gave the good news to the people. islamic period was marked with turbulent period in arab lands. arabs fought and fought hard to gain back what they lost honor and dignity under the leadership of prophet muhammed. this was golden period of islamic empire. the rest was history........

jeffdrummer

I am really not sure about this, you make valid points; and I see you are from Iran, which falls under Islamic law, so I am sure that you can speak much better than most us could. I didn't really see anything that suggest that Islam is not peaceful, but you say there is more to come.
I would have trouble believing a religion that burns effigies of the Pope because he quotes some mildly anti-Islam passage, is peaceful, even more rational...
I have read books on both sides that Islam is peaceful, and that it is not, and to be honest the "not" side generally wins. If someone knows better, let me know, perhaps people have misinterpreted the Koran... however there are two Korans, the plain old Koran, and the Noble Koran, which includes instructions for Jihad.
The one thing that bothers me is this from the Koran, and I paraphrase:

In order to convert someone to Islam:
1) Politely ask them to join
if they refuse 2) ask them to pay a tax
if they refuse again 3) Pray to Muhamed, and then use the sword.

So I must join Islam, pay a tax, or die; doesn't it sound violent?

Finally Mohamed killed 92 Jews with his own sword, and took their gold; something which is celebrated openly by Muslims today. With all the violence, I cannot believe that it is peaceful.

Does this make sense?

40sondacurb

You're asking a deep question so forgive me if I must relay a deep answer



These Arab tribes were in the lowest depths of savagery and barbarism, and in comparison with them Indians and tribesmen were as advanced as a Plato. The savages of America do not bury their children alive as these Arabs did their daughters, glorying in it as being an honorable thing to do. Many of the men would threaten their wives, saying, "If a daughter is born to you, I will kill you." Even down to the present time the Arabs dread having daughters, but this predates Muhammad and was not in his edicts. Further, a man was permitted to take a thousand women, and most husbands had more than ten wives in their household. When these tribes made war, the one which was victorious would take the women and children of the vanquished tribe captive and treat them as slaves.

When a man who had ten wives died, the sons of these women rushed at each other's mothers; and if one of the sons threw his mantle over the head of his father's wife and cried out, "This woman is my lawful property," at once the unfortunate woman became his prisoner and slave. He could do whatever he wished with her. He could kill her, imprison her in a well, or beat, curse and torture her until death released her. According to the Arab habits and customs, he was her master.

Consider what was the condition and life of these oppressed women! Moreover, the means by which these Arab tribes lived consisted in pillage and robbery, so that they were perpetually engaged in fighting and war, killing one another, plundering and devastating each other's property, and capturing women and children, whom they would sell to strangers. How often it happened that the daughters and sons of a prince, who spent their day in comfort and luxury, found themselves, when night fell, reduced to shame, poverty and captivity. Yesterday they were princes, today they are captives; yesterday they were great ladies, today they are slaves.

If Christ Himself had been placed in such circumstances among such tyrannical and barbarous tribes, and if for thirteen years He with His disciples had endured all these trials with patience, culminating in flight from His native land--if in spite of this these lawless tribes continued to pursue Him, to slaughter the men, to pillage their property, and to capture their women and children--what would have been Christ's conduct with regard to them? If this oppression had fallen only upon Himself, He would have forgiven them, and such an act of forgiveness would have been most praiseworthy; but if He had seen that these cruel and bloodthirsty murderers wished to kill, to pillage and to injure all these oppressed ones, and to take captive the women and children, it is certain that He would have protected them and would have resisted the tyrants. What objection, then, can be taken to Muhammad's action?

Even When he did return to Medina his mercy was notable, for he killed one those who fought him.

Muhammad never fought against the Christians; on the contrary, He treated them kindly and gave them perfect freedom. A community of Christian people lived at &Najran and were under His care and protection. Muhammad said, "If anyone infringes their rights, I Myself will be his enemy, and in the presence of God I will bring a charge against him." In the edicts which He promulgated it is clearly stated that the lives, properties and honor of the Christians and Jews are under the protection of God; and that if a Muhammadan married a Christian woman, the husband must not prevent her from going to church, nor oblige her to veil herself; and that if she died, he must place her remains in the care of the Christian clergy. Should the Christians desire to build a church, Islam ought to help them. In case of war between Islam and her enemies, the Christians should be exempted from the obligation of fighting, unless they desired of their own free will to do so in defense of Islam, because they were under its protection.

The Koran its self was originally written upon the bladebones of sheep, or on palm leaves. These details indicate the condition of the people to whom Muhammad was sent.

Before Muhammad came Arabia was no more than a stop between Africa and Europe, after he came it became again the cradle of civilization, and to fault the man for raising a such a pitiful people to such heights is ignorant.


Also it's interesting to know that the Koran speaks against the covering of the face, citing the confusion it would create when identifying people.

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jeffdrummer

Very interesting and insightful reply, but what do you make of the noble Koran?

"Jews are under the protection of God"

I am not doubting he believes this, but I do not believe that the religion respects their right to survive, much less have their own state.

Xerxes

i love all your views on islam. But, today, my friends,enemies and mockers of this religion will one day become slaves of the same. Why ? population wise , the rate at which muslims are growing is three digit and rate at which other communities are growing is two digit. mr scondacurb has put forward a deep,deep answer. He has great insights in this intolerant religion. I am sure he had experience or he has got this experience from his forefathers.

The one thing that bothers me is this from the Koran, and I paraphrase:

"In order to convert someone to Islam:
1) Politely ask them to join
if they refuse 2) ask them to pay a tax
if they refuse again 3) Pray to Muhamed, and then use the sword.

So I must join Islam, pay a tax, or die; doesn't it sound violent?"

I agree with your points and these were words spoken to jews at the time of prophet muhammed. As i mentioned earlier, arabs were good traders and also cunning tribes of middle east. they were looked down upon by others during the middle ages. Jews were hated becoz at that time majority markets like jewelry, clothes, spices and diamonds etc were dominated by the jews. Jews well, were respected members in the arabian society which waas compoased many different races( ethopians, romans, persian, chrisitians and greeks). It was not know to the arabs that there forefathers were ,unfortunately, sons of the abraham. even today ishameal is treated as great prophet in islam unlike jacob family. When christian monks came from byzantium empire, they helped arabs know about their ancestry and tradition. There was this great ill feeling in their minds and even today. When the prophet muhammed came, they needed somebody militant like,warrior like, babaric lile and ruthless to teach their cousins( jews)a big lesson. Yes, a big mistake made by JAcobs and ishamael father. today jews are worried by this effect and continue. arabs will always fight jews . Peace in middl east is a blur. Islam has spread to many regions on this earht by war, coversion, raping, barbaric acts and other activities. No, my friends, islam is not a great peaceful religion. I think and predict by the end of the 2039 or before most of the worlds population will be muslims and there will be terrible consequences to pay for all this war in their land. Dont trust the teachings of quran why? it is has lot of contradictions. it is this reason my freinds that these moderates or extremists use to brainwash and fight or capture others into their religion. Christians in the middle east are having a tough time. they suffer quietly. there is no democracy in middle east or muslims world. Not yet, it is not possible and if it is, it is a shame or a facade. believe me or dont. many minorities suffered terrible pains and cruelties in various level and forms. it is unthinkable. many jews in Iran ran away to india or yemen or america or israel ( present day ). No, persian muslims are different from Arab muslim but basically all are fanatics. one is shia other or latter is sunni. None of them is any better. Of course, there are other minority muslims like bahai, sufi ishmali etc which are more tolerant than these barbarians. Let me add a verse from Quran. it is said that jews and christians are khafirs and at the end time these kahfirs will be executed or slaved by these barbarians. Khafir will be written on their forehead of nonmuslims indicating that jews and christians are to be punished. it is also believed that end time is at the present stage. So i warn that people to be vigilant when they travel to middle east or asia or north africa for vacation.
Europe is also getting worse and worse. You will all see that islamic flag will one perch on all buildings of europe.

bry623

I think that the schisms within the Muslim religon will prevent Islam from taking over the world. The infighiting betwee Shia and Sunni must stop for Islam to become a great and peaceful religion. In Christianity, Protestant gripus split off from the Catholics. A few schisms, an Inquisition or 2 and several centuries of tolerance has given all Christians common ground to work from. As a Catholic, I married a Baptist and we attend her church. I wonder if a Shia could marry a Sunni this way.

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Fr4665

i love this thread.

first of all consider this. if one day an american muslim was asked to stick to america or fight for a muslim country what would they do ? clearly screw america because well their religion comes first.

lets pull this a little into the extreme. lets say islam would really try to rule the world; wouldnt that be just another historical attempt at recreating hitlers vision one ruler or religion for all? first of all that wont work because people are too different in their cultures and ways. and you just cant convert some irish whiskey drinking guy to go and bend over on a rug and pray towards mecca.

also lets NOTE there are two groups of muslims they are fighting each other in their own religion ! id say deal with that first and fix it so they love each other before you try to conquer the world.

you can gain people to join you in your so called "peace full religion" its like the catholics mission in southern america but you wont win it without a massive war. if civilizations that dont want to become islamic fight to their death so be it i surely wont convert not even when im dead.

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Xerxes

My friends,fellows jews and others , days are pregreant with terror and wars. it is sad that world so beautiful and wonderful is being abused and abused for the interest of ones religion. Are we born to subdue and murder each other. All these sins will be accounted in heavnly books. This world belongs to the G-Ds people and not just muslims. Why are they so interested in converting and raping other enthnic groups. it is strange that G-d would even allow this to continue. Why are we all using our brains , minds and heart for the continued persecution of G-d people. G-d loves us all. Why are some people thinking other wise ? All the great civlizations egypt,india,china,greece,babylon or persia are gone. is this the indication of humanity has become more backward and falling rapidlly into sons of ALLAH.
In this case, the religion deemed vilified is Islam, and the vilification was perpetrated, apparently, it is true that The Force of Reason is falling down to the ground. A sad and depressing day will come. All thanks to the lame astringent thesis of the Quran that one day Old Continents ( europe and asia) are on the verge of becoming islamic continent, and i blame it to the decadence and stupidity of the freedom that the people of the West have surrendered themselves fecklessly and recklessly to the "sons of Allah." So in a nutshell, if i was speaking and blurting out my views openly in the muslim land, i will be executed and propbably dead. Let us all give thanks for the freedom of thoughts and ideas in the free world.

But , i still think, It is a shame, in so many ways, the latin world is at the point of collapse and tribes of islam are spreading their lexicon into their minds. A sad but true tale of democratic disaster. Just like india, persia, one day italy, spain and rest of the europe will crumble slowly and painfully.

Fr4665

europe will crumble slowly from what ? the whole world will cruble by a possible nuclear war predicted by einstein, and the world will be back to the stone age as most of civilization will be destroyed. and i fully believe such a thing COULD happen.

Our freedom is what we have been seeking since we first came here and its not our issue that we like our freedom and do our own thing and not to be associated with one religion one people one leader. like i said the quran is basically saying what hitler said once let me quote him "Ein Volk Ein Land Ein Führer" now let me translate "One People One Country One leader" the leader of your future muslim empire being your god. If i look at it this way thers no way this empire will exist and will fall like every other massive empire has, if its hitlers,the romans or napoleons.

there will always be rebels and you have a massive world full of rebels to fight against. the empire of the islam goes from the african desert slowly to turkey, down to spain and back to the southernboarders of china with india and nepal being an exception.

you must also identify the slow colonization of more and more muslims in different european countries what what issues this immigration has brought from social money to total hatred against muslims.

dont make it hard on yourselves stay where you are dont try to envade and we wont mess with you.

now im a little confused .... as you stated that you are from jewish origin but your posts come forward as pro muslim ...

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Xerxes

when i speak,think and write, i growl in a passionate zeal: west is no longer west, it is called arabianwest or a colony of Islamic bees, where the Islamic invasion does not proceed only in a physical sense, but also in a mental and other cultural ways. All that what our great forefather fought for the freedom of thought, and for the concept itself of liberty is now vain. I live in an open prison and when i talk or write such words like invaders,"or invasion,"or colony,"or westistanate , i am deeply, and morally wrong but, one is tempted to believe that i am rascist or propangadists but no my friends , there are many examples floating around in the europe, asis or middle east that makes want to cry or shout or scream.

Civilizations does not just die but commited their own suicide by their own ppl, I am saddened for the human history on days of black gloom and misery about future: The increasing presence of Muslims in Europe, asia, africa, south america and america is eaqual to loss of our freedom. It is time for a big clash of civilizations. But above all, there is pure and unashamed saddness. so what is the solution ? My solution ? MY SOLUTION , u WANT HEAR, NUKE THEM AND KILL THEM ALL but these are just stuipid and irrrational words of dying breed, it will make look like islamic killer. Todays islamic barbarians are living in the days of Nero and his shadows. We can do nothing-----it will be the final blow to the europe, israel and america.

Xerxes

Are still not getting it ? then i dont need to explain.it is explained clearly...

40sondacurb

The animosity towards Jews today is more the result of Zionism than anything else. Arab Jews are not the ones people are mad at, it's the European Jews who decided it would be a good idea to create a country right on top of other people's land.

That's not to say the Arabs are without fault for favoring war over diplomacy, but I don't think they are solely to blame.


And jeff I'd like the verse of that text so I can look it up.

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jeffdrummer

Which text? I don't know the Koran, I was just reading about Adam Gadahn, and these things came up... as well as in the couple of books I have read. I have never read the Koran, so I could never tell you. Sorry.

Wozer

how so?...there is such a thing as 'self defense', or 'retaliation' if you prefer...unfortunately world sentiment is not on our side after the lamer justifications used for the 'wars' in Afghanistan and Iraq.

supposed 'fundamentalists' exist in all religions, and are the bane of such...funny thing is, they totally ignore the fundamentals as proposed by their prophets and are rather just 'excuses' for control and domination of others, which is the antithesis of both the Muslim and Christian religions...

bry623

Israel has nukes and isn't afraid to use them.

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Wozer