Jesus, God, Man, Manifestation, or Some Guy?

**40sondacurb** · 10-20-2006, 03:47 PM

Probably the most well known man in America, what do you consider him?

God- Him, the Holy Spirit, and the big man are one and the same at all times.

Trinity- he's the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but in a more hydra kind of way. He's Jesus at times and at other times he's God, but that's always one.

Manifestation- On a higher station that an ordinary man being that he's supernaturally endowed, but he's not a God.

A man- just a leader of men made into myth.

Tell me if you got one I left out.

~~jeffdrummer~~ · 10-20-2006, 06:48 PM

He is the Son of God. Not all three. However there is certainly a Holy Spirit, and a Father.

Pretty much as simple as that as far as we Pentecostals believe.

I prefer debating politics, religion tends to get very personal very quickly

**40sondacurb** · 10-20-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffdrummer

He is the Son of God. Not all three. However there is certainly a Holy Spirit, and a Father.

Pretty much as simple as that as far as we Pentecostals believe.

I prefer debating politics, religion tends to get very personal very quickly

That's not very bold now is it.

~~jeffdrummer~~ · 10-20-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40sondacurb

That's not very bold now is it.

Like I said, this isn't an area where I feel that strong debate is essential. The Bible is very clear that the proper way (usually) to spread the Gospel is to profess, but not cram it down people's throats, I would be more than glad to tell you and explain what I believe, but so much is spiritual, and cannot be, until you understand. I would pray that you all would, but I know that as humans, our own intelligence often gets in the way. Some great books that explain alot of these principals are Mere Christianity by CS Lewis, and The Brothers Karamazov, by Fyodor Dostoevsky (who is considered mostly secular in his writing)

~~Wozer~~ · 10-20-2006, 07:47 PM

I prefer the Son of Man as he referred to himself as...which to me implies perhaps a perfect genetic example of a human (he could heal, make things like bread and wine, walk on water, and probably coerce (read enchant) if he wanted...)

**40sondacurb** · 10-20-2006, 07:58 PM

I'm a little wary on using miracles as proofs, I think they're more for the people who witnessed them and benefited from them. And guy can say this happened after so and so did X, and it may be true, but it may not be evidence of divine intervention. It could be coincidence just as easily.

BTW I'm in no way encouraging attacks on other's for believing whatever, but it would be interesting to know how people vary on this issue here.

~~jeffdrummer~~ · 10-20-2006, 08:14 PM

It is hard to explain with science, I really think faith plays a huge part. Without faith, Christianity could not exist. It is not about enlightenment, it is about some far further and deeper.

I agree that his miracles were for those who experienced them, but also for us to learn. The miracle of official's son, although great for the official has a great parable within about faith, and its importance.

I agree that it could be a coincidence, and science has attempted to explain most of them. Like creation, science makes sense to myself, but whenever I think evolution might be real, I feel a conviction like nothing humanly possible. I know I may sound brainwashed, but until you experience it, you cannot understand it. That is why so many Christians have trouble explaining Christianity's nuances and the more miraculous things.

And Wozer I do agree with the Son of Man, he was all man and all God, and this is proven in John 1. John is a great book to explain the trinity, and Bible, God's divine words, spoken through man, can say anything much better than any man can.

That's about all I can say.

~~Wozer~~ · 10-20-2006, 08:17 PM

possible tangent here....

well, I gotta say, the words attributed to the man call Jesus in the new testament are rather powerful...skip all the other words, especially anything not from the 4 gospels and revelations....its the words of Jesus that are great, and in many ways common sense...

one thing that makes me 'believe' is this: the quote, and I paraphrase and am not going to dig it up...something about a 'bright light in the sky, and wo unto the nursing mothers'..to me that refers to a nuclear blast and the effects of strontium 90 which goes directly into the mammary glands of mammals (proved by the fact cows milk was tainted after Chernobyl)...pretty hefty stuff, IMHO, considering that was ~2,000 years before the atomic age ;)

~~jeffdrummer~~ · 10-20-2006, 08:40 PM

Here we go on a tangent:

It is amazing how accurate the Bible has been. I am tired so I'll made this quick:

In the book of Zacariah (I may be wrong) it says Gaza will be abandoned, which seemed entirely possible.

Also in Ezekiel it talks of Persia (now Iran, and part of Syria) and the Great Bear of the North (Russia) invading Israel, which seems possible, if not likely. The Bible also said that Israel would be rebuilt. And once it is rebuilt, it will never be destroyed.

There is just too much in the Bible that accurate to be a coincidence. Some scary stuff is coming, according to the Bible WWIII will be the last war, the Roman Empire will be rebuilt (which it may). And then the antichrist comes and rules for seven years. Also the antichrist is a homosexual according to Ezekiel. (interesting tidbit, nothing else)

To me a few of these things may have been a coincidence, but all of them cannot, which proves, in my eyes, the Bible's truth.

Even if you are not a Christian, the Bible may be a great thing for you to read, I think everyone should at least once... but that's just my humble opinion.

"well, I gotta say, the words attributed to the man call Jesus in the new testament are rather powerful...skip all the other words, especially anything not from the 4 gospels and revelations....its the words of Jesus that are great, and in many ways common sense..."

I see the 4 Gospels as simply instruction from Jesus, and the wisest. Romans-Jude, mostly letters to churches and people, on correcting where we are going wrong.

Revelation: mostly just a warning to Christians to tell them what is coming, and why we must be urgent in seeking the "lost".

**Joefireline** · 10-21-2006, 05:56 AM

Ever seen life of Brian? That is what probably just what happened.
I would say, in my opinion, that is exactly what happened, just this guy was called Jesus, not Brian.

**Spatcher** · 10-26-2006, 06:12 PM

I say he was a man who somehow became REALLY famous when some people wrote stories about him.

Indoril Nerevar · 10-26-2006, 06:45 PM

I'm not religious, but I do believe Jesus existed at one point. I think he was just an ordinary guy who had certain values. People wrote stories about him, and through those stories he became known as more than he really was.

**Tiber Septim** · 10-27-2006, 06:58 AM

What is man, what is divine? Maybe man is divine.
I beleive that Jesus was indeed just a man, a simple man that had faith, not in a one true god or any single greater being, but faith in the rest of mankind.
I beleive that Jesus understood in the innate goodness of all mankind and by having faith in him we are ourselves placing faith in the goodness of others.

Isn't this what it is all about. I'm not religous or anything but isn't peaceful co-existence the one true message?
How does that song go... umm.. "What the world needs now, is love..."
If everybody was just a little bit kinder and respected each other the world would be a better place to live.

Back on the actual topic, yes, i beleive he was just a man, but a man with the right idea.

~~jeffdrummer~~ · 10-27-2006, 07:28 AM

So you do not believe the miracles or prophesies?

**Joefireline** · 10-27-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffdrummer

So you do not believe the miracles or prophesies?

No dis-respect here , and don't take this offensively:
Would you believe me if I said there was a flying pig here? Hopefully not.
Would you believe me if I said a random man was making this pig fly? Hopefully not.
Would you believe me if I said this happened 2000 years ago?

**40sondacurb** · 10-27-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joefireline

No dis-respect here , and don't take this offensively:
Would you believe me if I said there was a flying pig here? Hopefully not.
Would you believe me if I said a random man was making this pig fly? Hopefully not.
Would you believe me if I said this happened 2000 years ago?

Like I said in another thread, miracles are not proofs for anyone other than those who witnessed them or were affected by them. When Jesus did miracles it wasn't for him to be able to say, "Healed this guy, I turned water into this, ect..." it was fro the benefit of those there at the time. It's silly to think he did them for barging rights.

Anyow no one believes he's a man who received divine inspiration?

View Poll Results: Who was Jesus?
God	5	23.81%
Trinity	1	4.76%
Manifestation	2	9.52%
Man	13	61.90%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

10-20-2006, 03:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
40sondacurb #64 & #36 BACKBONE Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,764 OS: xp	Jesus, God, Man, Manifestation, or Some Guy? Probably the most well known man in America, what do you consider him? God- Him, the Holy Spirit, and the big man are one and the same at all times. Trinity- he's the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but in a more hydra kind of way. He's Jesus at times and at other times he's God, but that's always one. Manifestation- On a higher station that an ordinary man being that he's supernaturally endowed, but he's not a God. A man- just a leader of men made into myth. Tell me if you got one I left out. __________________ Donate to keep the forum running "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully" -George W. Bush Last edited by 40sondacurb : 10-20-2006 at 03:49 PM.

10-20-2006, 06:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
~~jeffdrummer~~ Register user Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 870 OS: MAC OS X 10.4.8, and 10.5!! WinXP SP2	He is the Son of God. Not all three. However there is certainly a Holy Spirit, and a Father. Pretty much as simple as that as far as we Pentecostals believe. I prefer debating politics, religion tends to get very personal very quickly Last edited by jeffdrummer : 10-20-2006 at 06:49 PM.

10-20-2006, 07:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
40sondacurb #64 & #36 BACKBONE Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,764 OS: xp	I'm a little wary on using miracles as proofs, I think they're more for the people who witnessed them and benefited from them. And guy can say this happened after so and so did X, and it may be true, but it may not be evidence of divine intervention. It could be coincidence just as easily. BTW I'm in no way encouraging attacks on other's for believing whatever, but it would be interesting to know how people vary on this issue here. __________________ Donate to keep the forum running "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully" -George W. Bush

10-20-2006, 08:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
~~jeffdrummer~~ Register user Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 870 OS: MAC OS X 10.4.8, and 10.5!! WinXP SP2	Here we go on a tangent: It is amazing how accurate the Bible has been. I am tired so I'll made this quick: In the book of Zacariah (I may be wrong) it says Gaza will be abandoned, which seemed entirely possible. Also in Ezekiel it talks of Persia (now Iran, and part of Syria) and the Great Bear of the North (Russia) invading Israel, which seems possible, if not likely. The Bible also said that Israel would be rebuilt. And once it is rebuilt, it will never be destroyed. There is just too much in the Bible that accurate to be a coincidence. Some scary stuff is coming, according to the Bible WWIII will be the last war, the Roman Empire will be rebuilt (which it may). And then the antichrist comes and rules for seven years. Also the antichrist is a homosexual according to Ezekiel. (interesting tidbit, nothing else) To me a few of these things may have been a coincidence, but all of them cannot, which proves, in my eyes, the Bible's truth. Even if you are not a Christian, the Bible may be a great thing for you to read, I think everyone should at least once... but that's just my humble opinion. "well, I gotta say, the words attributed to the man call Jesus in the new testament are rather powerful...skip all the other words, especially anything not from the 4 gospels and revelations....its the words of Jesus that are great, and in many ways common sense..." I see the 4 Gospels as simply instruction from Jesus, and the wisest. Romans-Jude, mostly letters to churches and people, on correcting where we are going wrong. Revelation: mostly just a warning to Christians to tell them what is coming, and why we must be urgent in seeking the "lost". Last edited by jeffdrummer : 10-20-2006 at 08:45 PM.

10-20-2006, 07:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
~~Wozer~~ Troubled Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,038 OS: 2kpro/XP pro/MCE	I prefer the Son of Man as he referred to himself as...which to me implies perhaps a perfect genetic example of a human (he could heal, make things like bread and wine, walk on water, and probably coerce (read enchant) if he wanted...)

10-20-2006, 08:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
~~jeffdrummer~~ Register user Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 870 OS: MAC OS X 10.4.8, and 10.5!! WinXP SP2	It is hard to explain with science, I really think faith plays a huge part. Without faith, Christianity could not exist. It is not about enlightenment, it is about some far further and deeper. I agree that his miracles were for those who experienced them, but also for us to learn. The miracle of official's son, although great for the official has a great parable within about faith, and its importance. I agree that it could be a coincidence, and science has attempted to explain most of them. Like creation, science makes sense to myself, but whenever I think evolution might be real, I feel a conviction like nothing humanly possible. I know I may sound brainwashed, but until you experience it, you cannot understand it. That is why so many Christians have trouble explaining Christianity's nuances and the more miraculous things. And Wozer I do agree with the Son of Man, he was all man and all God, and this is proven in John 1. John is a great book to explain the trinity, and Bible, God's divine words, spoken through man, can say anything much better than any man can. That's about all I can say.

10-20-2006, 08:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
~~Wozer~~ Troubled Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,038 OS: 2kpro/XP pro/MCE	possible tangent here.... well, I gotta say, the words attributed to the man call Jesus in the new testament are rather powerful...skip all the other words, especially anything not from the 4 gospels and revelations....its the words of Jesus that are great, and in many ways common sense... one thing that makes me 'believe' is this: the quote, and I paraphrase and am not going to dig it up...something about a 'bright light in the sky, and wo unto the nursing mothers'..to me that refers to a nuclear blast and the effects of strontium 90 which goes directly into the mammary glands of mammals (proved by the fact cows milk was tainted after Chernobyl)...pretty hefty stuff, IMHO, considering that was ~2,000 years before the atomic age ;)

10-21-2006, 05:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
Joefireline Enthusiastic TSFer~Joseph Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Portishead (Bristol) England Posts: 5,314 OS: XP Pro SP2(Desktop) / XP Home SP2(laptop) My System	Ever seen life of Brian? That is what probably just what happened. I would say, in my opinion, that is exactly what happened, just this guy was called Jesus, not Brian. __________________ - Joseph LAPTOP: Acer Aspire 5512WMLi (Specification) OPTIMIZE XP BEFORE POSTING HJT LOG - POST HJT LOG >>HERE<< If TSF has helped you, please help TSF: Please DONATE

10-26-2006, 06:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
Spatcher Henry Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,468 OS: XP Home SP2 My System	I say he was a man who somehow became REALLY famous when some people wrote stories about him. __________________ JohnThePilot: Cenedl heb iaith, cenedl heb galon (a nation without a language is a nation without a heart) John Butler Trio: Go take a step outside, see what's shakin' in the real world - Good Excuse Paul Kelly: Just add a dollop of tomato sauce for sweetness and that extra tang - How to Make Gravy

10-26-2006, 06:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
Indoril Nerevar Hero of Vvardenfell & Manager, Games Team Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 3,710 OS: XP Pro 32-bit SP2, Vista Home Premium 32-bit, Vista Home Premium 64-bit My System	I'm not religious, but I do believe Jesus existed at one point. I think he was just an ordinary guy who had certain values. People wrote stories about him, and through those stories he became known as more than he really was. __________________ Donating to the forum keeps TSF free for all. • Posting System Specs • Power Supply Info • Common Game Issues • • NVIDIA Drivers and Info • ATI Drivers and Info • Thermal Paste Guide • • Futuremark Game Advisor • System Requirements Lab • • Everest • Prime95 • DirectX • Cheatbook • AMD Drivers • • Memtest86 • SensorsView • Driver Cleaner • Add-Remove • I do not give help via PM. Please post your question on the forum.

10-27-2006, 06:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tiber Septim Elite Commander Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 846 OS: Windows Vista Ultimate My System	What is man, what is divine? Maybe man is divine. I beleive that Jesus was indeed just a man, a simple man that had faith, not in a one true god or any single greater being, but faith in the rest of mankind. I beleive that Jesus understood in the innate goodness of all mankind and by having faith in him we are ourselves placing faith in the goodness of others. Isn't this what it is all about. I'm not religous or anything but isn't peaceful co-existence the one true message? How does that song go... umm.. "What the world needs now, is love..." If everybody was just a little bit kinder and respected each other the world would be a better place to live. Back on the actual topic, yes, i beleive he was just a man, but a man with the right idea.

10-27-2006, 07:28 AM	#14 (permalink)
~~jeffdrummer~~ Register user Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 870 OS: MAC OS X 10.4.8, and 10.5!! WinXP SP2	So you do not believe the miracles or prophesies?

10-27-2006, 10:26 AM	#17 (permalink)
bry623 Manager, The Conversation Pit/Analyst, Security Team