5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 03:56 PM

I was out snowblowing as normal and all of a sudden I heard a clank and the Tecumsah 5hp engine on my Murray Snow Thrower shut down. When I went to pull the cord to try to start it again there was very little resistance and nothing happened. It did not sound like anything was firing. Does anyone have any idea what may have broke or what went wrong? Don

MrChooks · 01-13-2009, 05:17 PM

Hi & welcome to TSF.

Sudden engine stops and "clangs", all sounds a bit ominous

- but lets hope for the best.

If your engine has had a catastrophic failure - it could be a big end bearing or con rod or piston / gudgeon failure and ALL of these are bad -

so let's see if we can narrow down the issue and see if we can (hopefully) eliminate a major failure.

OK, does your engine turn over at all when you attempt to start and if it does - does it make any "clanging / clunking" noises that were not there before?

2nd. Take the plug out, and pull the engine thru again - is there any less resistance to the engine turning over now and any new banging / clanging??

3rd. With the plug out - place a long (at least 8"-10" long ie. one that is too long to drop all the way into the cylinder!!!) pencil or piece of round stick / dowel into the plug hole and rest it on the top of the piston. Now gently pull the engine thru - does the pencil move up and down as the engine turns??

Let us all know the results of these little tests and we can see if we can either eliminate serious internal failure

or (hopefully not) confirm your engine is in big trouble

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 05:30 PM

Thank you for your response. I can pull the string with little effort. The engine does not turn over or even attempt to turn over, thus no clanging. It doesn't sound like anything. If I pull the string and hold the handle for the thrower, the blade turns as I pull the string. Does this help narrow down the issue. Thanks. Don

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 05:36 PM

For clarification, the blade I am talking about is the one below the blower hole. The pulling of the plug makes no difference in the amount of resistance which is minimal. Thank you, Don

MrChooks · 01-13-2009, 05:37 PM

Hi Don
OK, so far it looks like the crankshaft is still intact in that if the auger turns whilst you pull the recoil start string - that means you are able to rotate the crankshaft whilst pulling on the recoil starter and by inference the crankshaft is still in one piece

.

Now we need to see if there is still anything connected to the crankshaft (like the engine's con rod / piston assembly). See what happens with the small stick / pencil test down the plug hole (remember to make sure the piece of stick you use is TOO LONG TO DROP INTO THE CYLINDER

) and let us know what you find.

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 05:46 PM

I tried putting a pencil in the plug hole but it only goes in about one half inch? Hows Australia? We are about 5 degrees Ferehnheit, a little cold.

**Basementgeek** · 01-13-2009, 06:11 PM

With the plug spark plug out use your finger/thumb and cover the hole. While the hole is covered pull the recoil starter rope.

Feel any compression (air) ?

BG

P.S. Avoid the spark plug wire as you will get a nice shock.

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 06:23 PM

Thanks for response. Did not feel much but a little cold air.

MrChooks · 01-13-2009, 06:24 PM

Hi Don - it's 95 deg F here in Australia today - so we don't have much use for snow blowers!

OK - if the pencil isn't getting jammed in the plug hole thread - it is beginning to sound like the piston isn't moving

. See if BG's suggestions shows any compression - when you pull the recoil starter thru - you should feel a build up of air pressure as the piston moves up to the top.

If the pencil test doesn't show the piston moving (and BG compression test shows no compression) I am afraid you have a very sick engine

If you are confident and handy with tools, your next step will be to remove the head and have a good look inside. If the piston isn't moving up & down, then you have a failed con rod, / big end bearing / piston assembly.

These are not impossible to fix, but do require a bit of know how and the engine will have to be stripped down and rebuilt.

MrChooks · 01-13-2009, 06:26 PM

OK - when you pull the engine thru with your thumb over the plug hole - if all is well - the compression should push your thumb right off the plug hole - if not - there is a more serious problem

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 06:29 PM

Is the thing thats keeping the pencil from going down the piston?

MrChooks · 01-13-2009, 06:31 PM

If the pencil isn't jamming on the plug hole - Yes - it is stopping up against the piston.

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 06:33 PM

OK, im going to try again. Thanks. I'll be back shortly.

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 06:44 PM

I tried it again, no pressure. Can't get anything down the plug hole? Is it worth getting repaired? It's only 5 years old.

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 06:53 PM

95 degrees...I am quite envious as the plow just came by and left a two foot wall across my driveway...........#$%^&%$#@@...............what a fun night! Thanks for all your help.

MrChooks · 01-13-2009, 06:59 PM

This is always a difficult question

.

Faced with this kind of dilemma - my usual approach is to call the local (trust worthy) equipment repair shop and ask them for estimates for:
1/ rebuild of engine (tell them you suspect the big end / con rod has failed)
2/ see what they will charge for a rebuilt exchange engine.
3/ get a price on a new engine.

This all assumes you are confident enough to take the sick engine off and reinstall the repaired / replacement engine.

If you are not confident with doing that, then I guess you will need to get your machine down to your local (trusted) outdoor equipment repair shop - either way, if they are any good they should be able to advise you on all your options and give you prices and advice on each.

The new engine route is one I often follow when the engine has had a catastrophic failure but you often don't have to replace a Tecumseh with another Tecumseh. Many small engines of similar power output have identical footprint (base plate hole spacing) and shaft heights / diameters. If another brand engine has all these the same - it is quite easy to do a transplant to another brand.

The key with your selection of outdoor equipment repair shops is to find one that actually fixes things and has a reasonable local reputation (these good guys always have a workshop out back - where they do actual repairs!) - NOT one of those ritzy shows that only sells stuff - but otherwise couldn't fix a stamp on an envelope

donstraka · 01-13-2009, 07:03 PM

Thank you very much for all your assistance. I will find a reputable repair shop tomorrow and follow your suggestions. Thanks again, and stay warm. Don

MrChooks · 01-13-2009, 07:09 PM

No probs Don - sorry we weren't able to give you a simple fix - good luck with it all; and; if we are right; and worse come to worse - a new engine should only be a few hundred $s

Here is link to give you some idea of what a new or exchange engine should cost - you will need to include an estimate for labour for your repair shop to do the repair / swap out

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/

01-13-2009, 03:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow I was out snowblowing as normal and all of a sudden I heard a clank and the Tecumsah 5hp engine on my Murray Snow Thrower shut down. When I went to pull the cord to try to start it again there was very little resistance and nothing happened. It did not sound like anything was firing. Does anyone have any idea what may have broke or what went wrong? Don

01-13-2009, 05:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
MrChooks Gearhead Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 613 OS: Windows XP Home SP 3 My System	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow Hi & welcome to TSF. Sudden engine stops and "clangs", all sounds a bit ominous - but lets hope for the best. If your engine has had a catastrophic failure - it could be a big end bearing or con rod or piston / gudgeon failure and ALL of these are bad - so let's see if we can narrow down the issue and see if we can (hopefully) eliminate a major failure. OK, does your engine turn over at all when you attempt to start and if it does - does it make any "clanging / clunking" noises that were not there before? 2nd. Take the plug out, and pull the engine thru again - is there any less resistance to the engine turning over now and any new banging / clanging?? 3rd. With the plug out - place a long (at least 8"-10" long ie. one that is too long to drop all the way into the cylinder!!!) pencil or piece of round stick / dowel into the plug hole and rest it on the top of the piston. Now gently pull the engine thru - does the pencil move up and down as the engine turns?? Let us all know the results of these little tests and we can see if we can either eliminate serious internal failure or (hopefully not) confirm your engine is in big trouble

01-13-2009, 05:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow Thank you for your response. I can pull the string with little effort. The engine does not turn over or even attempt to turn over, thus no clanging. It doesn't sound like anything. If I pull the string and hold the handle for the thrower, the blade turns as I pull the string. Does this help narrow down the issue. Thanks. Don

01-13-2009, 05:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow For clarification, the blade I am talking about is the one below the blower hole. The pulling of the plug makes no difference in the amount of resistance which is minimal. Thank you, Don

01-13-2009, 05:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
MrChooks Gearhead Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 613 OS: Windows XP Home SP 3 My System	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow Hi Don OK, so far it looks like the crankshaft is still intact in that if the auger turns whilst you pull the recoil start string - that means you are able to rotate the crankshaft whilst pulling on the recoil starter and by inference the crankshaft is still in one piece. Now we need to see if there is still anything connected to the crankshaft (like the engine's con rod / piston assembly). See what happens with the small stick / pencil test down the plug hole (remember to make sure the piece of stick you use is TOO LONG TO DROP INTO THE CYLINDER ) and let us know what you find.

01-13-2009, 05:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow I tried putting a pencil in the plug hole but it only goes in about one half inch? Hows Australia? We are about 5 degrees Ferehnheit, a little cold.

01-13-2009, 06:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
Basementgeek Moderator, Home Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Central Ohio, USA Posts: 1,518 OS: XP Pro SP2/Vista Ultimate SP2 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow With the plug spark plug out use your finger/thumb and cover the hole. While the hole is covered pull the recoil starter rope. Feel any compression (air) ? BG P.S. Avoid the spark plug wire as you will get a nice shock. __________________ Donating to the forum keeps TSF free for all. Proud member of ASAP

01-13-2009, 06:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow Thanks for response. Did not feel much but a little cold air.

01-13-2009, 06:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
MrChooks Gearhead Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 613 OS: Windows XP Home SP 3 My System	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow Hi Don - it's 95 deg F here in Australia today - so we don't have much use for snow blowers! OK - if the pencil isn't getting jammed in the plug hole thread - it is beginning to sound like the piston isn't moving . See if BG's suggestions shows any compression - when you pull the recoil starter thru - you should feel a build up of air pressure as the piston moves up to the top. If the pencil test doesn't show the piston moving (and BG compression test shows no compression) I am afraid you have a very sick engine If you are confident and handy with tools, your next step will be to remove the head and have a good look inside. If the piston isn't moving up & down, then you have a failed con rod, / big end bearing / piston assembly. These are not impossible to fix, but do require a bit of know how and the engine will have to be stripped down and rebuilt.

01-13-2009, 06:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
MrChooks Gearhead Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 613 OS: Windows XP Home SP 3 My System	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow OK - when you pull the engine thru with your thumb over the plug hole - if all is well - the compression should push your thumb right off the plug hole - if not - there is a more serious problem

01-13-2009, 06:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow Is the thing thats keeping the pencil from going down the piston?

01-13-2009, 06:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
MrChooks Gearhead Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 613 OS: Windows XP Home SP 3 My System	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow If the pencil isn't jamming on the plug hole - Yes - it is stopping up against the piston.

01-13-2009, 06:33 PM	#13 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow OK, im going to try again. Thanks. I'll be back shortly.

01-13-2009, 06:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow I tried it again, no pressure. Can't get anything down the plug hole? Is it worth getting repaired? It's only 5 years old.

01-13-2009, 06:53 PM	#15 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow 95 degrees...I am quite envious as the plow just came by and left a two foot wall across my driveway...........#$%^&%$#@@...............what a fun night! Thanks for all your help.

01-13-2009, 06:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
MrChooks Gearhead Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 613 OS: Windows XP Home SP 3 My System	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow This is always a difficult question . Faced with this kind of dilemma - my usual approach is to call the local (trust worthy) equipment repair shop and ask them for estimates for: 1/ rebuild of engine (tell them you suspect the big end / con rod has failed) 2/ see what they will charge for a rebuilt exchange engine. 3/ get a price on a new engine. This all assumes you are confident enough to take the sick engine off and reinstall the repaired / replacement engine. If you are not confident with doing that, then I guess you will need to get your machine down to your local (trusted) outdoor equipment repair shop - either way, if they are any good they should be able to advise you on all your options and give you prices and advice on each. The new engine route is one I often follow when the engine has had a catastrophic failure but you often don't have to replace a Tecumseh with another Tecumseh. Many small engines of similar power output have identical footprint (base plate hole spacing) and shaft heights / diameters. If another brand engine has all these the same - it is quite easy to do a transplant to another brand. The key with your selection of outdoor equipment repair shops is to find one that actually fixes things and has a reasonable local reputation (these good guys always have a workshop out back - where they do actual repairs!) - NOT one of those ritzy shows that only sells stuff - but otherwise couldn't fix a stamp on an envelope

01-13-2009, 07:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
donstraka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 OS: vista	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow Thank you very much for all your assistance. I will find a reputable repair shop tomorrow and follow your suggestions. Thanks again, and stay warm. Don

01-13-2009, 07:09 PM	#18 (permalink)
MrChooks Gearhead Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 613 OS: Windows XP Home SP 3 My System	Re: 5HP Tecuseh two stage thrower stopped working while throwing snow No probs Don - sorry we weren't able to give you a simple fix - good luck with it all; and; if we are right; and worse come to worse - a new engine should only be a few hundred $s Here is link to give you some idea of what a new or exchange engine should cost - you will need to include an estimate for labour for your repair shop to do the repair / swap out http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/