Who has my kind of luck?

Whitetail Crazy · 07-24-2008, 07:17 AM

So my nephew buys a truck with a knocking engine (2002 Chevy 3/4 ton 6.0 liter). He plans on having the engine replaced (by me of course) so he has a truck that he can use on the farm or for hunting or whatever- not a primary vehicle. I start the search for a good used engine and in April I find a 6.0 liter complete on E-bay ($800). Ad says ran great when pulled, 85k miles, pulled because the body was involved in a wreck. We drive the 422 mile round trip to pick up the engine. Since it is not his primary vehicle, there is no rush to get it installed. I started a couple of weeks ago and run into some problems finding flywheel bolts so I just get it to the point where I am waiting for a set of exhaust manifold gaskets to come in. I figure I will crank it over and build some oil pressure but not start it. With no spark plugs in it, it cranks freely then a slight hick up and another then the engine locks. It will not turn over at all. I turn it backwards and then it turns over again by hand freely. I use the starter and the same scenario. So I think, what could cause this? Intake was off, did I or the guy that removed the engine drop something down one of the ports and is now on top of the piston only hitting at a certain point. The engine cranking faster than I can turn it by hand would allow it to move more. I am sure there is something on top of a piston!!!
I start at about 7:30 last night.
So I proceed to pulling the drivers's side head. Nothing. I pull the passenger side head sure to find something. Nothing.
So now what on the lower end could cause this? After standing around and scratching my head a while. I crawl under the truck and start turning it over with a screw driver. I tell the wife to watch the pistons and make sure they are all moving as I turn.
"All except this back one" she says.
I keep turning, "are you sure?" - "Hasn't moved yet" - "Are you positive?" - "yes".
I come out from under truck in a whirlwind of cuss words. I proceed to pulling the engine back out, with the engine on the hoist I start removing the oil pan. As I walk around the engine removing pan bolts I see where the starter use to be, there is a chunk of casting pushed out. I grab it and pull it off leaving a hole in the side of the block. I go ahead and remove the pan now knowing what I am going to find. Sure enough, a rod broke in half, turning by hand allowed the stub of rod to rotate on the crank and remain straight down but using the starter would get it spinning fast enough that the centrifical force would let it go to the side and contact the side of the block.
So now I am in the process of trying to get ahold of the seller to see what they are willing to do if anything.
I think I am screwed for waiting too long.

Sorry for the long post. Just had to vent some....

**mack1** · 07-24-2008, 07:57 AM

Hi Whitetail Crazy,

Thankfully, most folks don't have luck like that. You will probably have trouble getting them to take the block back as they probably knew about the rod.

Maybe you can put both engines together and get a running one. A good welder could patch the hole in the block leaving you with cylinders with acceptable ware on them. Take a rod out of the old engine and put it in.
If you do, made sure you remove the ring grove at the top of the cylinder.
With your luck it would hit and freeze the top ring.

You might want to replace the rod bearings while you are in there.

I'm not a fan of used engines, but I have put in several short blocks. I found that I could buy a shortblock cheaper than I could rebuild one myself. I only had one problem with them. Once they had pressed the wrist pin in too far and it touched the cylinder wall. It ran clean when installed, but a few hundred miles later, it had grooved the cylinder wall and was making tailpipe smoke and using oil. I pulled the engine and took it back. They sleaved the cylinder and it ran for several years without any other problems. They did it for no cost, as they should.

Hope you have luck getting them to make it good.

Best regards,
Mack1

Whitetail Crazy · 07-24-2008, 08:20 AM

Pics...

**mack1** · 07-24-2008, 08:38 AM

Quote:

A good welder could patch the hole in the block

Maybe I should used caps on GOOD. Hard to believe a Cheve truck would do that.

Nice pics.

Your work is cut out for you. Have fun.

Best regards,
Mack1

SABL · 07-25-2008, 05:22 AM

Not a pretty sight. I'm rather surprised that the broken chip is still laying where it fell (pic #1). This engine had to have been on a cradle when you bought it, the damage is very obvious and would have had to been concealed in some manner.

What kind of rating did the seller have on Ebay?? You need to contact the seller and see what his explanation is for the conditions of the "bill of goods" he sold you.

Connecting rod failure (IMHO) is uncommon with average use. Over-revving is one cause for failure.....extreme load under full acceleration can also break a rod. Did you find any evidence of water in the oil pan? One sure-fire way to snap or bend a rod is to go "hell bent on election day" through high water. Once water gets sucked into the intake and combustion chamber something is going to break and that something is usually the rod (or in worst case instances it could be the crankshaft). The latter case I have experienced firsthand.....My daughter did it....Yep, she's a blond.

I would check the original engine that was in the truck to find out why it was knocking. Chances are that it has a "spun bearing". Or it could be a wrist pin....you won't know til you check it out. Turn the engine upside down and with the oil pan off turn the crank back-and-forth and look for any type of "play" in any of the moving parts. It sounds to me that repairing the original engine will be easier and cheaper than trying to fix the "replacement".

Good luck!! (keep us posted on your progress)

SABL

Whitetail Crazy · 07-25-2008, 07:22 AM

I actually noticed the "chunk" on the side of the block and pulled it out with my fingers. I see no evidence of water but also find it hard to believe that this type of engine would have a broken rod. It is not able to over rev under load with the rev limiter. What I was thinking is possibly throwing it into low gear while going fast or with a big load (trailer or something) pushing it down a hill. No returned messages or calls so I am on hold with E-bay now to get the name associated with the account and will have to go the legal route. Sad that it has to be like this but I guess it is the only choice that I have.
If I would have known that there would be this much trouble, I definitely would have just worked with the original engine and probably will now. It has 280,000 on it so we thought we could just drop in a decent engine and be OK, but didn't throw in my luck factor.
So I know have the name and E-bay also gave me a federal website for internet crime.
Haven't went to it yet but in the event anyone else ever needs it, www.ic3.gov

SABL · 07-26-2008, 05:29 AM

From looking at pic#4 I would say that the engine was under extreme load due to what appears to be bending of the rod. It doesn't look like over-revving. I could speculate on the reasons but at this point we need to concentrate on getting the truck back on the road.

If you have any questions or concerns I'm sure Mack, myself or other posters will be happy to throw some suggestions your way.

I know all about the "luck" thing......If it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

Whitetail Crazy · 07-26-2008, 09:25 AM

Talked to the guy last night. He swears it ran great when pulled. So apparently this happened while transporting or while lowering it into the truck.... I lost cell phone reception and lost the call. Now, I think he recognizes my number and won't answer. I'll keep trying for a little while but think I am going to have to go the legal route.
If I get ahold of him I will offer for him to refund the $800 or if I have to go the legal route, I will go for the fuel to pick it up, the gaskets I bought and the labor to install.

SABL · 07-26-2008, 10:44 AM

There is NO WAY that kind of damage happened during transport or loading of that engine!! (At least for transport). I will admit that "loading" did cause the failure.... but that pertains to "loading" the engine while it was in operation. That engine had to be under severe "stress" for that kind of damage. That is internal damage that could NEVER be caused by transportation!!!!! From the pics, all evidence points to internal failure with the impact exiting in an outward manner. Shipping would indicate the opposite, with the impact bending the oilpan in an inward manner...the force would have to be applied from outer sources. This is not the case.... that engine has been damaged from internal failure.

Follow whatever course you think is appropriate.....my wording may be a little strong but I feel you have fallen prey to an unscrupulous seller.

OK,....I have vented. I have no use for people that do not represent their goods or themselves in an honest manner. Your seller has really "raised my hackles".... I'd be ready to bite and ask questions later.

I sincerely do wish you the best,
I am only SABL

SABL · 07-27-2008, 10:47 AM

Very off topic but........what did the trail cam show??

Whitetail Crazy · 07-28-2008, 05:32 AM

Haven't got much on it yet. this is the only buck I got a pic of so far.
Needs a couple more years!!!

Whitetail Crazy · 08-08-2008, 07:00 PM

Does anyone know where I can order a rebuild or rering kit for an engine this new / 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD 6.0L.
I want this thing out of my garage so I guess I have to do somethig with the old engine!!

BUDFAN8 · 08-08-2008, 09:07 PM

google it should come up with all kinds of choices of places to order rebuild kits.

Bud.

SABL · 08-09-2008, 06:46 AM

This might be a start:

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPage...d=400&CatId=13

It did not show prices. I'm sure if NAPA carries the parts that you should be able to find them at most autoparts dealers.

I checked my Jeg's catalogue and found a 6.0L but I doubt you would want to spend $5700 for a complete 400HP LS2......Bare blocks are available for $700.

Whitetail Crazy · 08-09-2008, 08:13 AM

Thank you,
the Napa link does show a kit. I was searching last night and just seemed to keep coming up with old engine stuff. I have a Napa locally so I will give them a call with the part number and see what their kit costs.

BUDFAN8 · 08-10-2008, 09:41 PM

depending on your location in Ill. and willingness to drive there is a truck here in tenn. with a good engine. been wrecked in the front. think they were asking 2500 but cash talks maybe get it for around 2000 take the engine sell parts scrap the rest and not have a whole lot in the engine. http://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/788292028.html there is the link to it if interested

Bud.

07-24-2008, 07:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
Whitetail Crazy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 29 OS: windows xp	Who has my kind of luck? So my nephew buys a truck with a knocking engine (2002 Chevy 3/4 ton 6.0 liter). He plans on having the engine replaced (by me of course) so he has a truck that he can use on the farm or for hunting or whatever- not a primary vehicle. I start the search for a good used engine and in April I find a 6.0 liter complete on E-bay ($800). Ad says ran great when pulled, 85k miles, pulled because the body was involved in a wreck. We drive the 422 mile round trip to pick up the engine. Since it is not his primary vehicle, there is no rush to get it installed. I started a couple of weeks ago and run into some problems finding flywheel bolts so I just get it to the point where I am waiting for a set of exhaust manifold gaskets to come in. I figure I will crank it over and build some oil pressure but not start it. With no spark plugs in it, it cranks freely then a slight hick up and another then the engine locks. It will not turn over at all. I turn it backwards and then it turns over again by hand freely. I use the starter and the same scenario. So I think, what could cause this? Intake was off, did I or the guy that removed the engine drop something down one of the ports and is now on top of the piston only hitting at a certain point. The engine cranking faster than I can turn it by hand would allow it to move more. I am sure there is something on top of a piston!!! I start at about 7:30 last night. So I proceed to pulling the drivers's side head. Nothing. I pull the passenger side head sure to find something. Nothing. So now what on the lower end could cause this? After standing around and scratching my head a while. I crawl under the truck and start turning it over with a screw driver. I tell the wife to watch the pistons and make sure they are all moving as I turn. "All except this back one" she says. I keep turning, "are you sure?" - "Hasn't moved yet" - "Are you positive?" - "yes". I come out from under truck in a whirlwind of cuss words. I proceed to pulling the engine back out, with the engine on the hoist I start removing the oil pan. As I walk around the engine removing pan bolts I see where the starter use to be, there is a chunk of casting pushed out. I grab it and pull it off leaving a hole in the side of the block. I go ahead and remove the pan now knowing what I am going to find. Sure enough, a rod broke in half, turning by hand allowed the stub of rod to rotate on the crank and remain straight down but using the starter would get it spinning fast enough that the centrifical force would let it go to the side and contact the side of the block. So now I am in the process of trying to get ahold of the seller to see what they are willing to do if anything. I think I am screwed for waiting too long. Sorry for the long post. Just had to vent some.... Last edited by Whitetail Crazy : 07-24-2008 at 07:22 AM.

07-24-2008, 07:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
mack1 TSF Articles Team Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Texarkana, Texas Posts: 670 OS: xp sp2 My System	Re: Who has my kind of luck? Hi Whitetail Crazy, Thankfully, most folks don't have luck like that. You will probably have trouble getting them to take the block back as they probably knew about the rod. Maybe you can put both engines together and get a running one. A good welder could patch the hole in the block leaving you with cylinders with acceptable ware on them. Take a rod out of the old engine and put it in. If you do, made sure you remove the ring grove at the top of the cylinder. With your luck it would hit and freeze the top ring. You might want to replace the rod bearings while you are in there. I'm not a fan of used engines, but I have put in several short blocks. I found that I could buy a shortblock cheaper than I could rebuild one myself. I only had one problem with them. Once they had pressed the wrist pin in too far and it touched the cylinder wall. It ran clean when installed, but a few hundred miles later, it had grooved the cylinder wall and was making tailpipe smoke and using oil. I pulled the engine and took it back. They sleaved the cylinder and it ran for several years without any other problems. They did it for no cost, as they should. Hope you have luck getting them to make it good. Best regards, Mack1 __________________ "If you like yourself others will like you also" me "Don't drink downstream from the herd" Will Rogers Submit New Articles Here

07-25-2008, 05:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
SABL Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Galena, Ohio Posts: 82 OS: WinXP SP3	Re: Who has my kind of luck? Not a pretty sight. I'm rather surprised that the broken chip is still laying where it fell (pic #1). This engine had to have been on a cradle when you bought it, the damage is very obvious and would have had to been concealed in some manner. What kind of rating did the seller have on Ebay?? You need to contact the seller and see what his explanation is for the conditions of the "bill of goods" he sold you. Connecting rod failure (IMHO) is uncommon with average use. Over-revving is one cause for failure.....extreme load under full acceleration can also break a rod. Did you find any evidence of water in the oil pan? One sure-fire way to snap or bend a rod is to go "hell bent on election day" through high water. Once water gets sucked into the intake and combustion chamber something is going to break and that something is usually the rod (or in worst case instances it could be the crankshaft). The latter case I have experienced firsthand.....My daughter did it....Yep, she's a blond. I would check the original engine that was in the truck to find out why it was knocking. Chances are that it has a "spun bearing". Or it could be a wrist pin....you won't know til you check it out. Turn the engine upside down and with the oil pan off turn the crank back-and-forth and look for any type of "play" in any of the moving parts. It sounds to me that repairing the original engine will be easier and cheaper than trying to fix the "replacement". Good luck!! (keep us posted on your progress) SABL

07-25-2008, 07:22 AM	#6 (permalink)
Whitetail Crazy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 29 OS: windows xp	Re: Who has my kind of luck? I actually noticed the "chunk" on the side of the block and pulled it out with my fingers. I see no evidence of water but also find it hard to believe that this type of engine would have a broken rod. It is not able to over rev under load with the rev limiter. What I was thinking is possibly throwing it into low gear while going fast or with a big load (trailer or something) pushing it down a hill. No returned messages or calls so I am on hold with E-bay now to get the name associated with the account and will have to go the legal route. Sad that it has to be like this but I guess it is the only choice that I have. If I would have known that there would be this much trouble, I definitely would have just worked with the original engine and probably will now. It has 280,000 on it so we thought we could just drop in a decent engine and be OK, but didn't throw in my luck factor. So I know have the name and E-bay also gave me a federal website for internet crime. Haven't went to it yet but in the event anyone else ever needs it, www.ic3.gov

07-26-2008, 05:29 AM	#7 (permalink)
SABL Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Galena, Ohio Posts: 82 OS: WinXP SP3	Re: Who has my kind of luck? From looking at pic#4 I would say that the engine was under extreme load due to what appears to be bending of the rod. It doesn't look like over-revving. I could speculate on the reasons but at this point we need to concentrate on getting the truck back on the road. If you have any questions or concerns I'm sure Mack, myself or other posters will be happy to throw some suggestions your way. I know all about the "luck" thing......If it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

07-26-2008, 09:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
Whitetail Crazy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 29 OS: windows xp	Re: Who has my kind of luck? Talked to the guy last night. He swears it ran great when pulled. So apparently this happened while transporting or while lowering it into the truck.... I lost cell phone reception and lost the call. Now, I think he recognizes my number and won't answer. I'll keep trying for a little while but think I am going to have to go the legal route. If I get ahold of him I will offer for him to refund the $800 or if I have to go the legal route, I will go for the fuel to pick it up, the gaskets I bought and the labor to install.

07-26-2008, 10:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
SABL Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Galena, Ohio Posts: 82 OS: WinXP SP3	Re: Who has my kind of luck? There is NO WAY that kind of damage happened during transport or loading of that engine!! (At least for transport). I will admit that "loading" did cause the failure.... but that pertains to "loading" the engine while it was in operation. That engine had to be under severe "stress" for that kind of damage. That is internal damage that could NEVER be caused by transportation!!!!! From the pics, all evidence points to internal failure with the impact exiting in an outward manner. Shipping would indicate the opposite, with the impact bending the oilpan in an inward manner...the force would have to be applied from outer sources. This is not the case.... that engine has been damaged from internal failure. Follow whatever course you think is appropriate.....my wording may be a little strong but I feel you have fallen prey to an unscrupulous seller. OK,....I have vented. I have no use for people that do not represent their goods or themselves in an honest manner. Your seller has really "raised my hackles".... I'd be ready to bite and ask questions later. I sincerely do wish you the best, I am only SABL

07-27-2008, 10:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
SABL Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Galena, Ohio Posts: 82 OS: WinXP SP3	Re: Who has my kind of luck? Very off topic but........what did the trail cam show??

08-08-2008, 07:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
Whitetail Crazy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 29 OS: windows xp	Re: Who has my kind of luck? Does anyone know where I can order a rebuild or rering kit for an engine this new / 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD 6.0L. I want this thing out of my garage so I guess I have to do somethig with the old engine!!

08-08-2008, 09:07 PM	#13 (permalink)
BUDFAN8 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 189 OS: XP	Re: Who has my kind of luck? google it should come up with all kinds of choices of places to order rebuild kits. Bud.

08-09-2008, 06:46 AM	#14 (permalink)
SABL Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Galena, Ohio Posts: 82 OS: WinXP SP3	Re: Who has my kind of luck? This might be a start: http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPage...d=400&CatId=13 It did not show prices. I'm sure if NAPA carries the parts that you should be able to find them at most autoparts dealers. I checked my Jeg's catalogue and found a 6.0L but I doubt you would want to spend $5700 for a complete 400HP LS2......Bare blocks are available for $700. Last edited by SABL : 08-09-2008 at 06:47 AM.

08-09-2008, 08:13 AM	#15 (permalink)
Whitetail Crazy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 29 OS: windows xp	Re: Who has my kind of luck? Thank you, the Napa link does show a kit. I was searching last night and just seemed to keep coming up with old engine stuff. I have a Napa locally so I will give them a call with the part number and see what their kit costs.

08-10-2008, 09:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
BUDFAN8 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 189 OS: XP	Re: Who has my kind of luck? depending on your location in Ill. and willingness to drive there is a truck here in tenn. with a good engine. been wrecked in the front. think they were asking 2500 but cash talks maybe get it for around 2000 take the engine sell parts scrap the rest and not have a whole lot in the engine. http://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/788292028.html there is the link to it if interested Bud.