[SOLVED] 99 malibu will crank, but not start - Page 2

grogg1256 · 06-27-2008, 07:52 PM

ok--we sat down and i summed everything all up--

1999 Malibu LS 3.1 L Style M OBDII

Previously...
-Dim headlights
-Random ABS, Brake, Theft Light, but always off at next start up
-Sun Roof doest always like to close
-Gas gauge works until your down to a half tank, then it starts to go back up instead of down until its empty, then it shows empty
-Sometimes when you turn on the a/c, the gas gauge jumps to full and stays there until you shut it off
-Check engine came on once, but was off at next start up
-occasionally had to tap gas at startup

And then...
-Driving home, turned right --car died, no warning lights, or funny noises, just died.
-Initially restarted, but it was rough and sounded like it had a timing issue.
-Towed it home and now it will crank but not start.

-tried ether, no fire--but you can hear the fuel pump
-spark plug test shows no spark
-checked all fuses inside and underhood
-all 3 coils and coil wire were checked
-changed crank position sensor, no change
-changed ignition control module, no change
-changed igntion switch, no change
-checked the only known fusible link by the alternator, its good
-checked for continuity and connection issues around cps, icm, and pcm
-did the relearn procedure for the computer

It is not passlock, the security light does not flash. Tried to reset it anyways, and the light never went off

The multimeter died after checking the igntion switch--coincidence??

SO whats left??? Why wont my car start????

Raylo · 06-28-2008, 03:49 AM

Sounds like you need an exorcist!

mercedesman · 06-28-2008, 03:57 PM

did you check the camshaft position sensor
located under the power steering pump if this goes bad you will not have spark also start checking all grounds from battery to body and engine and clean them this should correct some of these problems and yes you will have to remove the power sterring pump to replace it
mercedesman
owner
sugarland motorwerks

mercedesman · 06-28-2008, 04:00 PM

the fuel gage problen is the sending unit in the tank sugguest replacing entire fuel pump assy we have done just the gage sensor and within 4 to 6 weeks the pump goes bad so have to do all over again

grogg1256 · 06-28-2008, 08:47 PM

he went and had a talk to the guy at the gm garage and he thinks we might have bought a bad ignition control module, so it was exchanged and were getting the new one monday, and he's gonna try that again. we'll get to the fuel gauge if the car ever starts again!!! and of course the tank was just filled that day too...i just tried to mention every little detail hoping combinations might make something stand out. hes been cleaning everything as he goes. i found a really good page: http://www.hotrodlane.cc/New%20LS%20...TC%20P1361.htm
that explains how the module works, and it seems like if it isnt the module itself, its prolly the pcm.
the way the haynes book reads, its the crank position sensor, not the cam sensor, but i will check into it, because the haynes book seems to be leaving a lot of things out!!
and the funny thing about the exorcism--when the meter broke--all it would read was 6.66!!! he said it just proved i had electrical demons!!

AnthonyStargate · 06-29-2008, 10:29 PM

Has he tried hooking up a code reader?

The way it works is, in theory, the computer (also known as the ECM, electronic control module, just to make it confusing) talks to all the sensors. If there's a dead sensor, the computer will store a code. You hook up the code reader and it reads the code and it might tell you what the problem is.

It doesn't always work. Sometimes the computer will miss a bad sensor and not store a code, but it's essential to have a code reader to work on cars nowadays and it just might solve your problem.

There's a little connector, usually to the left of the steering wheel called an OBD 2 port, which stands for on board diagnostics version 2 port. And the code readers are called OBD II readers. They use Roman numbers just to keep it cryptic. I've seen them for as little as $60 at department stores, and of course auto parts stores sell them.

Best wishes with solving the puzzle!

dcraker · 06-30-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

well--still nothing--when the key is in the on position, it just stays lit, no blinking--and he left it for 20 minutes and it never went out. he replaced the ignition switch, and still nothing--it just stays on, and the car just cranks....
tried where you put it into nuetral and that didnt work either
anymore ideas????

maybe i missed it in the thread, i have read each of the post.
So correct me if I am wrong, after you turn the key on even if it's just to put it in the on position, isn't the security light suppose to go off after it has verified that it is the correct key, which is a few seconds at the most?

also agree with AnthonyStargate, could have had the check engine light checked out, but you already disconnected the battery. Not sure if it will still show up after you attempt to start, some cars will relearn the fault codes even though it didn't run.

grogg1256 · 06-30-2008, 04:38 PM

i think he is going to have to break down and buy a scanner, you cant seem to reason with this thing!! the 2nd ignition module didnt help.
and i dont know why the security light stays on--it never goes off when its in the relearn mode. he left it for a half an hour and all it did was drain the battery--but everything related to it has been changed!!! were missing something somewhere, and i wish i knew what it was!!!

wrench97 · 06-30-2008, 05:07 PM

If he buys one of the consumer scanners I don't think it will help because all they do are read stored codes once you disconnect the battery you erase the stored codes.
It might be time to take it somewhere they have the OTC or Snapon reader that will give you real time sensor readouts. If you can find someone in your area that does mobile
electronic diagnostic work for dealers and shops he will most likely also have a laptop and software that will not only read the sensor outputs but also the ECM/PCM outputs as well up here in the Phila area there about 20 guys doing it, I don't know about your area but I suspect there must be someone.
He may very well do it for what you would pay for the scan tool.

wrench97 · 06-30-2008, 06:27 PM

One other thing you might try, Unplug the primary wires(small + & -) off all but one of the coil packs see if you have spark from the remaining one, do this for each of them. If so one of them is shorted and shorting the signal to the others.

**Midnight Tech** · 06-30-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrench97

once you disconnect the battery you erase the stored codes.

Disconnecting the battery will not clear codes on a OBDII system - only way is to use a scan tool.

grogg1256 · 06-30-2008, 08:23 PM

i think hes gonna just have to take it somewhere--but he dont like it!! hes been working on cars since he about 10--but you just cant reason out all the sensors and the computers, especially when your used to the way things used to be built. thanks about the info on the scanners--cuz he was getting ready to go buy one, seems like it would just be a waste of money. he just wants to get the thing running again to get rid of it now.
can you remove the pcm itself and take it in?? i know its kinda odd, but it would save a tow charge--were about 20 miles from town.

**mack1** · 06-30-2008, 08:34 PM

OBDII started in 1996 and disconnecting the battery cable on that model S10 Blazer will clear the codes. I haven't tried it on 97 and up. The scanner tool works also.

grogg1256 · 06-30-2008, 08:39 PM

i just found something else thatll cause a crank but no start--park/nuetral safety switch!!!maybe??? hopefully...

Raylo · 07-01-2008, 05:04 AM

No, the park/neutral safety switch prevents cranking. It does not affect ignition.

Whitetail Crazy · 07-01-2008, 06:14 AM

Just an FYI, My cheapo scanner from autozone reads and clears engine codes. Just doesn't do body codes such as ABS. I believe that I paid $60 for it about 5 years ago.

**mack1** · 07-01-2008, 07:32 AM

Hi grogg1256,

If you could post some pictures of the electrical prints, we might be of help in troubleshooting the system. The ones relating to the ignition system, including the inputs and outputs to the PCM.

Bests regards,
Mack1

wrench97 · 07-01-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight Tech

Disconnecting the battery will not clear codes on a OBDII system - only way is to use a scan tool.

Clears them on a 2000 Lasbre.

06-27-2008, 07:52 PM	#21 (permalink)
grogg1256 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 27 OS: xps2	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start ok--we sat down and i summed everything all up-- 1999 Malibu LS 3.1 L Style M OBDII Previously... -Dim headlights -Random ABS, Brake, Theft Light, but always off at next start up -Sun Roof doest always like to close -Gas gauge works until your down to a half tank, then it starts to go back up instead of down until its empty, then it shows empty -Sometimes when you turn on the a/c, the gas gauge jumps to full and stays there until you shut it off -Check engine came on once, but was off at next start up -occasionally had to tap gas at startup And then... -Driving home, turned right --car died, no warning lights, or funny noises, just died. -Initially restarted, but it was rough and sounded like it had a timing issue. -Towed it home and now it will crank but not start. -tried ether, no fire--but you can hear the fuel pump -spark plug test shows no spark -checked all fuses inside and underhood -all 3 coils and coil wire were checked -changed crank position sensor, no change -changed ignition control module, no change -changed igntion switch, no change -checked the only known fusible link by the alternator, its good -checked for continuity and connection issues around cps, icm, and pcm -did the relearn procedure for the computer It is not passlock, the security light does not flash. Tried to reset it anyways, and the light never went off The multimeter died after checking the igntion switch--coincidence?? SO whats left??? Why wont my car start????

06-28-2008, 03:49 AM	#22 (permalink)
Raylo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 292 OS: XP Desktop, Vista HP Notebook, XP Notebook	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start Sounds like you need an exorcist!

06-28-2008, 03:57 PM	#23 (permalink)
mercedesman Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9 OS: xp pro	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start did you check the camshaft position sensor located under the power steering pump if this goes bad you will not have spark also start checking all grounds from battery to body and engine and clean them this should correct some of these problems and yes you will have to remove the power sterring pump to replace it mercedesman owner sugarland motorwerks

06-28-2008, 04:00 PM	#24 (permalink)
mercedesman Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9 OS: xp pro	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start the fuel gage problen is the sending unit in the tank sugguest replacing entire fuel pump assy we have done just the gage sensor and within 4 to 6 weeks the pump goes bad so have to do all over again

06-28-2008, 08:47 PM	#25 (permalink)
grogg1256 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 27 OS: xps2	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start he went and had a talk to the guy at the gm garage and he thinks we might have bought a bad ignition control module, so it was exchanged and were getting the new one monday, and he's gonna try that again. we'll get to the fuel gauge if the car ever starts again!!! and of course the tank was just filled that day too...i just tried to mention every little detail hoping combinations might make something stand out. hes been cleaning everything as he goes. i found a really good page: http://www.hotrodlane.cc/New%20LS%20...TC%20P1361.htm that explains how the module works, and it seems like if it isnt the module itself, its prolly the pcm. the way the haynes book reads, its the crank position sensor, not the cam sensor, but i will check into it, because the haynes book seems to be leaving a lot of things out!! and the funny thing about the exorcism--when the meter broke--all it would read was 6.66!!! he said it just proved i had electrical demons!!

06-29-2008, 10:29 PM	#26 (permalink)
AnthonyStargate Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: I'm in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Posts: 35 OS: Windows XP service pack 2	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start Has he tried hooking up a code reader? The way it works is, in theory, the computer (also known as the ECM, electronic control module, just to make it confusing) talks to all the sensors. If there's a dead sensor, the computer will store a code. You hook up the code reader and it reads the code and it might tell you what the problem is. It doesn't always work. Sometimes the computer will miss a bad sensor and not store a code, but it's essential to have a code reader to work on cars nowadays and it just might solve your problem. There's a little connector, usually to the left of the steering wheel called an OBD 2 port, which stands for on board diagnostics version 2 port. And the code readers are called OBD II readers. They use Roman numbers just to keep it cryptic. I've seen them for as little as $60 at department stores, and of course auto parts stores sell them. Best wishes with solving the puzzle!

06-30-2008, 04:38 PM	#28 (permalink)
grogg1256 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 27 OS: xps2	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start i think he is going to have to break down and buy a scanner, you cant seem to reason with this thing!! the 2nd ignition module didnt help. and i dont know why the security light stays on--it never goes off when its in the relearn mode. he left it for a half an hour and all it did was drain the battery--but everything related to it has been changed!!! were missing something somewhere, and i wish i knew what it was!!!

06-30-2008, 05:07 PM	#29 (permalink)
wrench97 Tech Hardware Team Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,484 OS: XPSP2	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start If he buys one of the consumer scanners I don't think it will help because all they do are read stored codes once you disconnect the battery you erase the stored codes. It might be time to take it somewhere they have the OTC or Snapon reader that will give you real time sensor readouts. If you can find someone in your area that does mobile electronic diagnostic work for dealers and shops he will most likely also have a laptop and software that will not only read the sensor outputs but also the ECM/PCM outputs as well up here in the Phila area there about 20 guys doing it, I don't know about your area but I suspect there must be someone. He may very well do it for what you would pay for the scan tool. __________________

06-30-2008, 06:27 PM	#30 (permalink)
wrench97 Tech Hardware Team Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,484 OS: XPSP2	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start One other thing you might try, Unplug the primary wires(small + & -) off all but one of the coil packs see if you have spark from the remaining one, do this for each of them. If so one of them is shorted and shorting the signal to the others. __________________

06-30-2008, 08:23 PM	#32 (permalink)
grogg1256 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 27 OS: xps2	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start i think hes gonna just have to take it somewhere--but he dont like it!! hes been working on cars since he about 10--but you just cant reason out all the sensors and the computers, especially when your used to the way things used to be built. thanks about the info on the scanners--cuz he was getting ready to go buy one, seems like it would just be a waste of money. he just wants to get the thing running again to get rid of it now. can you remove the pcm itself and take it in?? i know its kinda odd, but it would save a tow charge--were about 20 miles from town.

06-30-2008, 08:34 PM	#33 (permalink)
mack1 TSF Articles Team Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Texarkana, Texas Posts: 768 OS: xp sp2 My System	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start OBDII started in 1996 and disconnecting the battery cable on that model S10 Blazer will clear the codes. I haven't tried it on 97 and up. The scanner tool works also. __________________ "If you like yourself others will like you also" me "Don't drink downstream from the herd" Will Rogers Submit New Articles Here Last edited by mack1 : 06-30-2008 at 08:37 PM.

06-30-2008, 08:39 PM	#34 (permalink)
grogg1256 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 27 OS: xps2	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start i just found something else thatll cause a crank but no start--park/nuetral safety switch!!!maybe??? hopefully...

07-01-2008, 05:04 AM	#35 (permalink)
Raylo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 292 OS: XP Desktop, Vista HP Notebook, XP Notebook	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start No, the park/neutral safety switch prevents cranking. It does not affect ignition.

07-01-2008, 06:14 AM	#36 (permalink)
Whitetail Crazy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 29 OS: windows xp	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start Just an FYI, My cheapo scanner from autozone reads and clears engine codes. Just doesn't do body codes such as ABS. I believe that I paid $60 for it about 5 years ago.

07-01-2008, 07:32 AM	#37 (permalink)
mack1 TSF Articles Team Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Texarkana, Texas Posts: 768 OS: xp sp2 My System	Re: 99 malibu will crank, but not start Hi grogg1256, If you could post some pictures of the electrical prints, we might be of help in troubleshooting the system. The ones relating to the ignition system, including the inputs and outputs to the PCM. Bests regards, Mack1 __________________ "If you like yourself others will like you also" me "Don't drink downstream from the herd" Will Rogers Submit New Articles Here