Geo Storm is slow to start in the mornings

AnthonyStargate · 06-20-2008, 09:38 AM

Good Day,

This happened this morning and yesterday morning. When I started the Storm, the engine turned over slowly and it made that errrrr errrrr sound that often happens on a very cold morning, but this is summer time.

Yesterday morning, after it was slow to start, I let it run for a few minutes, shut it off and started it again. It started immediately.

The car is a 1991 Geo Storm with 97,800 miles. It has a small 1.6 liter engine, the single camshaft version and a 5 speed transmission. (Yes, I know. I didn't start car hunting soon enough and ran out of time. Then I had to buy a car to get to work. I will buy a Corolla next.) The battery is old; I bought it for my previous car and barely used it because the piece of junk Hyundai Elantra died soon after I bought the battery. So the battery just sat for about 3 and a half years. I installed it in the Storm last November. (After work one night the Storm would not start. I felt so provident that I had a spare battery with me. Then I discovered the positive battery cable was an inch and a half too short! It reminded me of that scene in Wayne's World, "Ahhh, why God why!?" I went to the library and found an auto parts store, then walked to the store and bought their shortest battery cable.)

The Storm started just fine in the evening. So I'm thinking the battery is wearing out, but it would helpful to have another opinion before I buy a new battery.

And while I'm asking, I've heard two schools of thought on cold cranking amps. One is - You can never have too many cold cranking amps. Extra oomph is a good thing. The other is - Don't buy a battery that has more than a few cold cranking amps beyond what your car is rated for, otherwise the alternator won't be able to recharge a huge battery.

Thank you for your insight

dcraker · 06-20-2008, 11:52 AM

Well, for here where I am, I can either take the battery in or have them run a diagnostics on the charging at an Auto parts store, like Autozone, Schucks. They don't charge you anything to check it here. I don't know what you have there.

I would check the water in the battery and fill to the recommended height with the proper liquid. Can't stress this enough to people here, but "Be Careful" when it comes to working on stuff like that, and maybe make sure that all contacts are good, clean and making a positive connection from the battery to wherever the other end of the cable is.

if all else fails, just have the auto parts store check it out.

BUDFAN8 · 06-20-2008, 02:40 PM

if you have a multi-meter you can check it yourself. hold the ends to the battery before cranking then while cranking. if voltage drop is substanceual you will need a battery.

Bud.

**mack1** · 06-21-2008, 05:31 AM

Hi Anthony,

If I lived up your way, I'd buy a heavy amp battery. Alternators are designed to put out volts and amps untill the battery is charged. Alternators only have to put back what you use during the start and a little to service the engine and it don't know if the battery is large or small. The idea that the alternator can't survice a large battery is false.

I like both Budfan8 and dcraker's ideas. I like clean connections at the battery posts and at the block and starter. I like keeping the electrolite lever above the plates, but not overfilled. I like that some parts suppliers will test your battery free, however I perfer Budfan's approach. Doing it yourself is the best way to know that it is right. I like the idea of being careful around batteries especially when a lot of current has been either put into or out of the battery. Wearing goggles around a battery after heavy current draw is a good idea.

I also know that a battery still needs water sometimes even if it is called a service free or no water needed type. You just can't pass current through dilute sulphuric acid without breaking down some of the water into oxygen and hydrogen. If the oxygen and hydrogen levels get to high inside the battery, there is a danger of explosion if any arcing occurs. I've never seen one blow up, but I know that they can.

Have a nice day,
Mack1

AnthonyStargate · 06-24-2008, 07:58 AM

Thank you for all the tips.

I did take the battery to O'Reilly's Auto Parts. The clerk tested the battery and the machine said the battery was fine.

The next day I went to Svenskarnas Dag, that's Swedish Day in English, a fun, cultural get together in a lush, green park here in Minneapolis. In the evening, when I tried to start the Storm it just would not start. As Winnie the Pooh so eloquently phrased it, "Oh bother." The engine did not turn over, the solenoid did not click, the radio and lights still worked. I have road service with my insurance and I called for a tow truck.

Yesterday I removed the starter and that was a bear of a job. The starter is buried in the most inaccessible spot, between the engine and the firewall. I had to jack up the car, remove the passenger front tire, the oil filter and use socket extensions to get the starter out. Though this job was not as dismal as removing the starter on my old, piece of junk, Hyundai Elantra.

I took the starter to an auto parts store. It actually tested middle of the road for all 3 tests, but that didn't seem right. It sounded weak. The junior clerk asked the senior clerk to check it. He could pull the bendix out and said you shouldn't be able to do that. He tested the starter again and then it failed.

So I need a new starter. That store did not have one. At least I know what the problem is and how to fix it.

Happy Trails

dcraker · 06-24-2008, 09:26 AM

that's great news...

As in my past, I have actually gotten a new starter, installed it only to learn that it didn't work

When you do acquire the new starter, ask them to check it for you anyways. They may give you the "run-around" saying that it is under warranty and it is fine, but I have made it clear to my parts store that if they don't test it, then I don't buy it. I will not ever try to waste time installing a bad starter, alternator or battery.

that's my 0.02 cents

06-20-2008, 09:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
AnthonyStargate Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: I'm in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Posts: 35 OS: Windows XP service pack 2	Geo Storm is slow to start in the mornings Good Day, This happened this morning and yesterday morning. When I started the Storm, the engine turned over slowly and it made that errrrr errrrr sound that often happens on a very cold morning, but this is summer time. Yesterday morning, after it was slow to start, I let it run for a few minutes, shut it off and started it again. It started immediately. The car is a 1991 Geo Storm with 97,800 miles. It has a small 1.6 liter engine, the single camshaft version and a 5 speed transmission. (Yes, I know. I didn't start car hunting soon enough and ran out of time. Then I had to buy a car to get to work. I will buy a Corolla next.) The battery is old; I bought it for my previous car and barely used it because the piece of junk Hyundai Elantra died soon after I bought the battery. So the battery just sat for about 3 and a half years. I installed it in the Storm last November. (After work one night the Storm would not start. I felt so provident that I had a spare battery with me. Then I discovered the positive battery cable was an inch and a half too short! It reminded me of that scene in Wayne's World, "Ahhh, why God why!?" I went to the library and found an auto parts store, then walked to the store and bought their shortest battery cable.) The Storm started just fine in the evening. So I'm thinking the battery is wearing out, but it would helpful to have another opinion before I buy a new battery. And while I'm asking, I've heard two schools of thought on cold cranking amps. One is - You can never have too many cold cranking amps. Extra oomph is a good thing. The other is - Don't buy a battery that has more than a few cold cranking amps beyond what your car is rated for, otherwise the alternator won't be able to recharge a huge battery. Thank you for your insight

06-20-2008, 11:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
dcraker Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 62 OS: Windows 2000	Re: Geo Storm is slow to start in the mornings Well, for here where I am, I can either take the battery in or have them run a diagnostics on the charging at an Auto parts store, like Autozone, Schucks. They don't charge you anything to check it here. I don't know what you have there. I would check the water in the battery and fill to the recommended height with the proper liquid. Can't stress this enough to people here, but "Be Careful" when it comes to working on stuff like that, and maybe make sure that all contacts are good, clean and making a positive connection from the battery to wherever the other end of the cable is. if all else fails, just have the auto parts store check it out. __________________ Thanks, David If you cover it in chocolate, it'll look better.

06-20-2008, 02:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
BUDFAN8 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 193 OS: XP	Re: Geo Storm is slow to start in the mornings if you have a multi-meter you can check it yourself. hold the ends to the battery before cranking then while cranking. if voltage drop is substanceual you will need a battery. Bud.

06-21-2008, 05:31 AM	#4 (permalink)
mack1 TSF Articles Team Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Texarkana, Texas Posts: 768 OS: xp sp2 My System	Re: Geo Storm is slow to start in the mornings Hi Anthony, If I lived up your way, I'd buy a heavy amp battery. Alternators are designed to put out volts and amps untill the battery is charged. Alternators only have to put back what you use during the start and a little to service the engine and it don't know if the battery is large or small. The idea that the alternator can't survice a large battery is false. I like both Budfan8 and dcraker's ideas. I like clean connections at the battery posts and at the block and starter. I like keeping the electrolite lever above the plates, but not overfilled. I like that some parts suppliers will test your battery free, however I perfer Budfan's approach. Doing it yourself is the best way to know that it is right. I like the idea of being careful around batteries especially when a lot of current has been either put into or out of the battery. Wearing goggles around a battery after heavy current draw is a good idea. I also know that a battery still needs water sometimes even if it is called a service free or no water needed type. You just can't pass current through dilute sulphuric acid without breaking down some of the water into oxygen and hydrogen. If the oxygen and hydrogen levels get to high inside the battery, there is a danger of explosion if any arcing occurs. I've never seen one blow up, but I know that they can. Have a nice day, Mack1 __________________ "If you like yourself others will like you also" me "Don't drink downstream from the herd" Will Rogers Submit New Articles Here

06-24-2008, 07:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
AnthonyStargate Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: I'm in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Posts: 35 OS: Windows XP service pack 2	Re: Geo Storm is slow to start in the mornings Thank you for all the tips. I did take the battery to O'Reilly's Auto Parts. The clerk tested the battery and the machine said the battery was fine. The next day I went to Svenskarnas Dag, that's Swedish Day in English, a fun, cultural get together in a lush, green park here in Minneapolis. In the evening, when I tried to start the Storm it just would not start. As Winnie the Pooh so eloquently phrased it, "Oh bother." The engine did not turn over, the solenoid did not click, the radio and lights still worked. I have road service with my insurance and I called for a tow truck. Yesterday I removed the starter and that was a bear of a job. The starter is buried in the most inaccessible spot, between the engine and the firewall. I had to jack up the car, remove the passenger front tire, the oil filter and use socket extensions to get the starter out. Though this job was not as dismal as removing the starter on my old, piece of junk, Hyundai Elantra. I took the starter to an auto parts store. It actually tested middle of the road for all 3 tests, but that didn't seem right. It sounded weak. The junior clerk asked the senior clerk to check it. He could pull the bendix out and said you shouldn't be able to do that. He tested the starter again and then it failed. So I need a new starter. That store did not have one. At least I know what the problem is and how to fix it. Happy Trails

06-24-2008, 09:26 AM	#6 (permalink)
dcraker Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 62 OS: Windows 2000	Re: Geo Storm is slow to start in the mornings that's great news... As in my past, I have actually gotten a new starter, installed it only to learn that it didn't work When you do acquire the new starter, ask them to check it for you anyways. They may give you the "run-around" saying that it is under warranty and it is fine, but I have made it clear to my parts store that if they don't test it, then I don't buy it. I will not ever try to waste time installing a bad starter, alternator or battery. that's my 0.02 cents __________________ Thanks, David If you cover it in chocolate, it'll look better.