BUDFAN8

hey guys, ive run into another tricky one.

its a 1990 toyota 3.0 v6, its sputtering real bad. the truck dose run but well underpowered and useing alot more gas than normal. i checked the fire all is good there but cylinders 1, 3, and 4 have no response to motor idle. the check engine light is on, but i have yet figured how to get a code from it (no place to put a jumper wire/code reader that i can see).

it has new plugs in it he tried that first. i havent tried checking compression yet. it started this all at once so i dont think its a compression issue but i will check that if i cant figure a way to get the codes out of it.

if you guys neeed more info just ask ill do my best to tell you more. and always thanks in advanced for the help you guys are great.

Midnight Tech

Budfan...see if you can post a picture of the engine compartment...might can see that ALDL for ya...

qldit

Good Evening BUDFAN8, I like the idea of a compression check just to ensure it is OK.

Possible O2 sensor kind of problem due to compression and no firing on those cyls.

Is that multiple O2 sensors on that thing?

May be had a significant vacuum leak and kept being driven, might have burned a few valves.

Nothing like lean running to kill exhaust valves.

Best of luck there,

Cheers qldit.

BUDFAN8

here are the pics you wanted midnight tech.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j.../toyota002.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j.../toyota001.jpg

if that dosent help let me know ill get better ones.

Midnight Tech

2nd picture, right beside the fuse box...small squarish cover...that's your ALDL!

BUDFAN8

is there a way to put a jumper wire on this like the old GM modles could be done to count the check engine light flashes?

Midnight Tech

Got it!
For a list of the codes, check out the .pdf here.

BUDFAN8

ok got the codes out of it they were


12: engine speed sensor circut--- distributor or circut, starter or circut, ECU, crankshaft or position sensor/ circut

43: starter signal circut----- starter signal circut, main relay, starter relay, iginition switch, or ECU

71: EGR system malfunction----- EGR system, EGR tempeture sensor or circut, EGR BVSV or VSV or circut, ECU


looks like im going to do a compression check to rule that out first. will update if they are too low tonight. until then if anyone can figure it out with this info help is always appreceiated.

BUDFAN8

compression checked out better than i thought..... for a truck with 212,000 miles the lowest reading i got was 145 lbs with the highest 155 lbs.

i did find a few burnt plug wires while checking the compression witch i will change the set out but bad thing is they were on differand cylinders than the ones i have found to be the trouble cylinders.


ughhhhhh back to the drawing board i guess.....

qldit

Good Evening BUDFAN8, gee that is pretty good compression for that beast.

I would be looking hard at coil pak commonality or cam position sensor, but I am more often wrong.

Is there any chance the bad leads may have been swapped from another pak?

Glad it is you with that and not me old fellow.

At least you can rule out the valves! Always handy to know the thing is good and should work.

The old AM portable wireless idea, tuned to the low end of the band would probably suggest what is happening or if the thing is producing spark when it is trying to run.

Best of luck with the process there.

Cheers, qldit.

BUDFAN8

it dose run qldit. it just is doing it on 3 cylinders.

i changed the plug wires today, didnt help much distributor cap and rotor button appeared good but i cleaned them both good. after i did all this i have stumbled on a good sign. when i now first start the truck it dosent miss at all for like 5-6 seconds. heres what im thinking now either fuel pump has enough pressure at first prime and then not enough to keep consistant or the one i think is the problem, injectors are clogged up and the initial prime is getting by the blockage. the owner is picking up the proper gaskets tommorrow so i can remove the upper intake and swap a few of the injectors around and see if the good cylinders then die. will let you guys know more when i do.


also i removed the trouble codes and let the truck get up to tempature even with the missing the check engine light never came back on.

let me know if you guys have any other ideas thanks as always

Bud.

BUDFAN8

well i got the upper intake off today pulled the injectors. the 3 cylinders that weren't working all had the top of thier injectors clogged with rust. i cleaned them out with carb cleaner. dont know if they are still good or not but i guess when i get it back togather ill find out. i havent got much experiance with injectors is there any reason they wont still work? they did have a screen holding the rust back so i dont think much if any got in the ports of the injector.


Bud.

qldit

Good Morning BUDFAN8, sounds like you found the problem, you need to make a testing rig for them.

I have a small length of square tubing here which is blocked at both ends and a hole to accept an injector with a plate and some threaded rods and is arranged so that I can pressurise an injector with either fluid or air and then using an electrical connection to a small power 12 VDC pack can operate them to check for leakage and spraying capability.

It is pretty rough but works pretty well.

Usually when you reinstall the injectors you will need a new "seal kit" with the rubber components. Some even have new screens.

I wouldn't refit them until you confirm they operate properly and ensure they shut off when power is removed.

A bit of messing around but really gives peace of mind.

Cheers, qldit.

BUDFAN8

great idea on the testing rig ive never thought of making one but i will try now thanks for the idea.


i called around to most of the local auto parts stores and found i cant get the seals the injectors sit in. can only get the o-rings. the seals dont look like there in bad shape but i just like the idea of its easy to put them in now instead of putting it back togather then finding out they are bad.


thanks again for the idea qldit

Bud.

qldit

Good Morning BUDFAN8, yes it is well worthwhile, I have an airline connector brazed into the end of the tubing so simply pressurise it with workshop air, you can use different pressures also. It is easy enough to make a simple arrangement to use kerosene as a testing fluid or simply the compressed air.

The power to operate the injector is simple enough, just a small 12 VDC plugpack, and a momentary contact switch operated from the mains power.

It will only take you an hour or so to make it, the injector is held in place by a couple of threaded rods and wingnuts to sandwhich the injector into the side of the square tubing and the retaining plate just has a right size hole to allow the injector point to be retained and allow easy observation.

I doesn't need to be all that big, nice and small and simple works very well.

Most injectors ar similar in shape and size so it can be a very handy tool, especially for picking up "dribbly" injectors.

You should be able to hear a nice clicking whenever the injector is operated with no pressure applied, sometimes they just don't operate cleanly and don't give that audible clean click sound.

Yes the seals should be nice and soft, after a while the rubber hardens up and when refitted may leak. Using a smear of vaseline on them helps retain them and assists sealing.

Good fun job, very satisfying to know they all operate properly and give similar sprays.

Cheers, qldit.